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Earnings Replacing Hours Worked in Search

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@Kyriakos P wrote:

Thinking as a, relative, new freelancer in UW, who hasn't done much work yet, i prefer to keep some data hidden. Such infos, as the earnings are, isn't an asset for me (at this time). Even if i am experience enough to complete succesfully a complex project, the client may choose by filtering parameters that has nothing to do with my skills or my current range of prices.

Thinking as a client, of course i would like (demand) as much filters (data) as posible by searching freelancers. I couldn't agree more on this step. Well done.

 

My concern is, when a client with a small project (lets assume 5-100$), has the ability to demand freelancers with high earnings, additional to Job Succes and UW hours. This is more a feeling than fact, though.
I couln't be happier if UW clients can prove me wrong on this.

Kyriakos


 Don't worry, you have hidden your earnings, therefore your profile will not appear in search anymore when a client will make use of the "income search filter". The privacy will be perfect then. Often successful freelancers with rather high income have preferred to make their earnings private and it is a pity for clients as well that they cannot find these freelancers in the future.

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After being a Plus member on Elance and Upwork for nearly two years I have cancelled this Plus membership today because the intended changes (see Official Upwork) disadantage Plus members who will not appear in clients' search results when they will search for the freelancer's level of earnings. This is a logical consequence. Being punished for paying extra is not what I intended with paying regularly extra fees. I wanted a bit more privacy and did not need extra connects.

prestonhunter
Community Guru
Preston H Member Since: Nov 24, 2014
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I disagree that displaying earnings disadvantages people who live in certain regions.

 

Freelancers should charge for their time and work based on the value they provide to clients, not based on the part of the world they live in.

 

The rates I charge have never been based on the region I live in or the cost of living in my locale. And I don't hire or pay freelancers based on where they live, but based on what they can do.

 

If a freelancer chooses to base their pay on their locale, that is their choice, but Upwork has never asked freelancers to do that.

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@Preston H wrote:

I disagree that displaying earnings disadvantages people who live in certain regions.

 

Freelancers should charge for their time and work based on the value they provide to clients, not based on the part of the world they live in.

 

The rates I charge have never been based on the region I live in or the cost of living in my locale. And I don't hire or pay freelancers based on where they live, but based on what they can do.

 

If a freelancer chooses to base their pay on their locale, that is their choice, but Upwork has never asked freelancers to do that.


 That is not how globalization - one of the drivers of this platform - works. Please, compare the hourly rates of US freelancers for example with those of freelancers from the Philippines for the same work, for example customer service or transcriptions! Yes, there may be a few exceptions if somebody has a very specific knowledge.

prestonhunter
Community Guru
Preston H Member Since: Nov 24, 2014
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re: "That is not how globalization - one of the drivers of this platform - works. Please, compare the hourly rates of US freelancers for example with those of freelancers from the Philippines for the same work, for example customer service or transcriptions! Yes, there may be a few exceptions if somebody has a very specific knowledge"

 

Margarete:

I don't have any argument with anything you said in this post.

 

But I don't see how these observations change anything about what I said.

 

I stand by my recommendation that freelancers should base their rates on the value they can provide to clients, and not on their locale. If freelancers choose not to do that, then that is their choice.

 

And I don't think that displaying earnings should be viewed as a disadvantage to people in certain regions. When I look at the actual earnings of many freelancers in India, Philippines and other places traditionally thought of as having a lower cost of living, I see many freelancers with huge numbers of hours and total earnings that far exceed total earnings of typical freelancers living in Europe and the United States.

 

Maybe it is the freelancers living in wealthier countries who are at a disadvantage?

prestonhunter
Community Guru
Preston H Member Since: Nov 24, 2014
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This is a general discussion and isn't addressed specifically to anybody (including Margarete, who has not specifically recommended any changes in this area, but who has merely made some observations):

 

I assume that Upwork is not going to adjust the earnings ranges displayed in search findings and elsewhere based on the region or country a freelancer lives in.

 

So even if you think freelancers in wealthier countries are at a disadvantage with this... or even if you think that freelancers in countries with lower costs of living are at a disadvantage with this... then what?

 

 

Let's assume that, on average, freelancers in Country A really do earn considerably more than freelancers in Country B. For doing the same kind of work.

 

Mathematically, I assume this is true.

 

Let's just imagine there are 200 countries represented on Upwork. A proper database query could rank all of them, in a list, one after another, showing the average earnings of freelancers in each country.

 

If one wanted to go to the effort, one could try to rank this by job type or niche. Although that would never be perfect, because if we're completely honest, the average writer in Country A does not actually have the same skill as the average writer in Country B. Nor does the average graphic designer, web developer, virtual assistant, etc. For some types of work, Country B's freelancers may be better (on average). For some, Country A's freelancers might be better.

 

So let's just assume that there's a big disparity between what freelancers in Countries A and B earn, for doing the same work.

 

What now? Should Upwork then download a table of the average cost-of-living in each country, or the average income in each country, and plug that into a formula for calculating a freelancer's lifetime earnings on Upwork? Should a freelancer who lives in Tempe, Arizona (such as myself) have their lifetime earnings adjusted or "corrected" in the final display, so that their earnings can be "fairly" compared alongside a freelancer who lives in Manhattan or London or Dhaka?

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All that some freelancers requested was that their number of fixed-price projects are also relevant for their ranking in search results - which was a legit claim. What we get now is something different.

prestonhunter
Community Guru
Preston H Member Since: Nov 24, 2014
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re: "All that some freelancers requested was that their number of fixed-price projects are also relevant for their ranking in search results - which was a legit claim."

 

I agree that this is a legitimate claim.

 

Nevertheless... to the best of my knowledge, the number of fixed-price projects is not slated to be used as a ranking criteria in search results.

 

I think the announcement and/or forum moderators' comments suggest that the number of fixed-price projects isn't a good way to rank a freelancer's experience, because a single fixed-price contract might be comprised of many different milestones and a lot of work, or it might not be. It's difficult to compare a single fixed-price contract that took a freelancer ten minutes to do to a multi-milestone fixed-price contract that extended over a year.

 

So that's why the "total earnings" was hit upon as a way of representing a freelancer's total Upwork history... a way that combines the actual amount of work done via fixed-price contracts with the amount done using hourly contracts.

 

Not a "perfect" way to represent a freelancer's history, but a "more complete" way that better represents the work done on fixed-price contracts as well as the work done on hourly contracts.

kochubei_valeria
Community Manager
Valeria K Community Manager Member Since: Mar 6, 2014
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Margarete,

 

We heard suggestions to add the number of fixed-price projects only and evaluated this option. Garnor and Lena shared earlier on this thread why we ultimately decided against doing that. The value of long-term fixed-price jobs is often inadequately represented by the number of projects completed. Now clients will have more complete information to evaluate freelancer's experience. They will be able to see total earnings, number of fixed-price jobs and total hours.

 

Additionally, I would like to once again address your concern about showing in search. Hiding earnings hasn't and won't affect a profile's position in search engines such as Google search (provided the profile is public) or Upwork freelancer search unless the filter by earnings is applied.

~ Valeria
Upwork
mtngigi
Community Guru
Virginia F Member Since: Feb 15, 2016
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I'm not sure, but I think the issue for some of us has to do with what category we work in. Except for a few repeat clients who give me numerous jobs every year, most all my jobs are one-offs, and they are all flat rate. As has been said, all I wanted was for those jobs to count for something on my profile.

 

It would be nice if consideration was given for individual catergories - but I realize this may not be doable.

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