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Frequently Asked Questions on TOS changes regarding information sharing and interviews

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Community Guru
Mohammed G Member Since: Jun 28, 2017
51 of 945

Eli M wrote:

With all of the exceptions that are listed, our email address is going to be visible somewhere in there. The people who want to cheat are going to figure out a way to cheat. Those of us who don't will have a very cumbersome process to deal with, and be constantly worried about getting banned and losing our income if we accidentally give a link to a portfolio that UpWork doesn't allow or a myriad other things. The rules are becoming very confusing.

I just tried to do a voice call using the UpWork system. In order to activate the microphone I have to restart the browser on my Mac. I'm not going to leave it open all the time.

After I was able to reconnect, the audio quality was poor and the video was blurry. I have a very good, 1Gb/s connection

Even if the UpWork system worked well, potential clients often need to be able to create an an account on their system for me to see the detail of the project, and that requires giving them my email address.

This is ridiculous. I predict that a competitor will easily beat UpWork if UpWork continues to insist on this cumbersome process. All of the time that I have spent building a good reputation on here will have been wasted and I will need to start over on a new system.

Please reconsider.


I swear that for a moment I thought the same!. If someone is financially willing to develop such a platform, It is the suitable time.

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Community Guru
Virginia F Member Since: Feb 15, 2016
52 of 945

Eli M wrote:

With all of the exceptions that are listed, our email address is going to be visible somewhere in there. The people who want to cheat are going to figure out a way to cheat. Those of us who don't will have a very cumbersome process to deal with, and be constantly worried about getting banned and losing our income if we accidentally give a link to a portfolio that UpWork doesn't allow or a myriad other things. The rules are becoming very confusing.

I just tried to do a voice call using the UpWork system. In order to activate the microphone I have to restart the browser on my Mac. I'm not going to leave it open all the time.

After I was able to reconnect, the audio quality was poor and the video was blurry. I have a very good, 1Gb/s connection

Even if the UpWork system worked well, potential clients often need to be able to create an an account on their system for me to see the detail of the project, and that requires giving them my email address.

This is ridiculous. I predict that a competitor will easily beat UpWork if UpWork continues to insist on this cumbersome process. All of the time that I have spent building a good reputation on here will have been wasted and I will need to start over on a new system.

Please reconsider.


This: "The people who want to cheat are going to figure out a way to cheat. Those of us who don't will have a very cumbersome process to deal with ..."

 

Upwork knows very well who the thousands of freelancers are that they don't have to worry about. Why can't those freelancers be exempt from this nonsense? Again, new rules punishing everyone, for the bad apples who are automatically accepted, and then figure out how to circumnavigate and proceed to scam clients who don't know any better. Usually by insisting on money up front, and then disappearing. It is beyond my ken the things Upwork comes up with that keep making things worse.

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Active Member
Paul C Member Since: May 26, 2020
53 of 945

Lena E wrote:

I use Calendly or another scheduling software to coordinate interview schedules. Can I do that via Upwork Messages?
We understand that many users need a way to schedule meetings and interviews. You can use Upwork Messages to quickly discuss and schedule an interview. We are looking at adding new features to Upwork Messages, including a calendar option for scheduling


(my emphasis).

May I suggest you try hiring a freelancer via Upwork to do that?

Some simple rules:

1. You may not say you are Upwork
2. You may only communicate via Upwork tools
3. You may not give access to potential freelancers to view any existing code.

If you still think this change to TOS is a good idea after doing that, then fine.

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Active Member
Kyle H Member Since: Dec 3, 2017
54 of 945

FYI, guys, they have already started implementing this ridiculous plan. If you go on the "talent scout" thingy (whatever abomination it will become), they mention not sharing any info with clients.image.png

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Ace Contributor
Solange B Member Since: Nov 24, 2014
55 of 945

Right here: "How do I access file-sharing tools (e.g., inVision, Google Drive files, Google or Facebook ad accounts)and/or private code services (e.g., Github) that require an email address?
We realize that some tools and services require the sharing of an email address to gain access and have been looking into ways to make it possible for you to use those services in the future. In the meantime, please use Upwork Messages, sharing tools and code services that allow for sharing out links to the files without requiring an email address. As an alternative, you can walk through files via screenshare during an interview to help scope the project."  

 

shows how ignorant the decision and the answers are. I know this will be long but we need to paint a real picture to see if you understand what you're saying, this is how that would go:

 

- Please log in to your Google Ads Account

(wait... wait...)

- Now filter by the last 3 months... right there on the top right

- Now on the left menu click on campaigns.

- Click over there first one...

- No, not the edit button... click cancel and click over the name of the campaign.

- Ok, stay there

[We can either take screenshots or write it down since we're back to the middle ages]

- Now please scroll to the right. Ok, go back to the left.

- Please click on the first Ad Group...

- Over the name... no, don't worry, I know you don't have to know how to navigate this, no need to apologize.

- Ok, now on top please click All Campaigns again... Right there on top on the grey bar...

(half an hour later.... since you have to do it one by one)

- Now please open your Google Analytics account..

(wait.... wait...)

- Right on the bottom left click on settings....

- Now Goals... right there on the right, the third column... yes, there...

- Ok, I see.. So now we need to go to your Google Tags Manager account. Please log in there.... 

- It's tagmanager.google.com

- Try the same credentials that you use for Google Ads...

- Don't worry I have time, it's me who is sorry that you have to go through this...

(20 minutes later)

- Now please on go back to Analytics on the left menu click on Campaigns...

 

Two hours later you're still doing screen sharing.

 

What a great experience... SAID NO ONE EVER!

 

No client in their right mind would go through that. They hire us to save them time and solve their problems. The moment they have to go through this, the frustration this will create, they will immediately go look someplace else. 

 

You have just lowered our value, and turned us into clowns. It's embarrassing. After these many years, over 100K made in your platform as an individual... you want me to embarrass myself. Explain that. 

 

At least just once say: "We apologize since we didn't consider many of these cases" At least apologize. But don't try to make this sound as if you thought this through, you know what you're doing and we need to adapt. 

 

As I said, by the time you need the talent for your precious Business and Enterprise clients, there will be no one left, whether it is freelancers or clients.

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Ace Contributor
Adam P Member Since: Jul 3, 2015
56 of 945
You should be charging for the work your doing and the time your spending!

Not a perfect solution, but have you considered setting up the contracts first before getting into their ad platforms or what have you?

Could be better from a liability standpoint too I reckon.


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Ace Contributor
Solange B Member Since: Nov 24, 2014
57 of 945

Thanks for the suggestion. But no, not really. I don´t charge for reviewing a project to 1) confirm whether the client expectations are feasible 2) to scope it. I would NEVER go into a contract to "review" something, because if my conclusion is that I don´t want to take on the client because his goals and expectations are not realistic (there are too many parameters involve), or that I´m not interested in the service, product, approach, values, etc. he might no be happy that he had to pay for that.

 

But most important: I don´t want my profile full of short term contracts for 1 hour just because of this. 

 

I go after long term contracts, so a review of the campaigns is a part of my pre-contract process, never to be done after contract. So I invest in reviewing because I take what I do seriously, and I offer tailored strategies and proposals that come from that analysis. 

 

Liability is never an issue since I'm not using their credentials and I know what I'm doing Smiley Happy Any changes, etc. are recorded by any system so it is not that someone can point a finger at me for editing something that I didn't. I have been doing this for a very long time.

 

The one thing I protect the most is my reputation. That is invaluable to me. Reviews and feedback are currency. And I won't risk that by going into contracts uninformed and unprepared.

 

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Active Member
Anton K Member Since: Sep 9, 2016
58 of 945

Solange B wrote:

Right here: "How do I access file-sharing tools (e.g., inVision, Google Drive files, Google or Facebook ad accounts)and/or private code services (e.g., Github) that require an email address?
We realize that some tools and services require the sharing of an email address to gain access and have been looking into ways to make it possible for you to use those services in the future. In the meantime, please use Upwork Messages, sharing tools and code services that allow for sharing out links to the files without requiring an email address. As an alternative, you can walk through files via screenshare during an interview to help scope the project."  

 

shows how ignorant the decision and the answers are. I know this will be long but we need to paint a real picture to see if you understand what you're saying, this is how that would go:

 

- Please log in to your Google Ads Account

(wait... wait...)

- Now filter by the last 3 months... right there on the top right

- Now on the left menu click on campaigns.

- Click over there first one...

- No, not the edit button... click cancel and click over the name of the campaign.

- Ok, stay there

[We can either take screenshots or write it down since we're back to the middle ages]

- Now please scroll to the right. Ok, go back to the left.

- Please click on the first Ad Group...

- Over the name... no, don't worry, I know you don't have to know how to navigate this, no need to apologize.

- Ok, now on top please click All Campaigns again... Right there on top on the grey bar...

(half an hour later.... since you have to do it one by one)

- Now please open your Google Analytics account..

(wait.... wait...)

- Right on the bottom left click on settings....

- Now Goals... right there on the right, the third column... yes, there...

- Ok, I see.. So now we need to go to your Google Tags Manager account. Please log in there.... 

- It's tagmanager.google.com

- Try the same credentials that you use for Google Ads...

- Don't worry I have time, it's me who is sorry that you have to go through this...

(20 minutes later)

- Now please on go back to Analytics on the left menu click on Campaigns...

 

Two hours later you're still doing screen sharing.

 

What a great experience... SAID NO ONE EVER!

 

No client in their right mind would go through that. They hire us to save them time and solve their problems. The moment they have to go through this, the frustration this will create, they will immediately go look someplace else. 

 

You have just lowered our value, and turned us into clowns. It's embarrassing. After these many years, over 100K made in your platform as an individual... you want me to embarrass myself. Explain that. 

 

At least just once say: "We apologize since we didn't consider many of these cases" At least apologize. But don't try to make this sound as if you thought this through, you know what you're doing and we need to adapt. 

 

As I said, by the time you need the talent for your precious Business and Enterprise clients, there will be no one left, whether it is freelancers or clients.


So on point. This applies to my field (email marketing) in the exactly same way.

 

We'll need to start charging for even basic stuff like taking a look at the client account. No other way around it. I'm not wasting 2 hours of my time to guide a client through a process that would take me 20 minutes.

 

And guess how many clients are going to stick around on a platform where every freelancer is like "Hey, I'd love to be interviewed for this position, so please go ahead and pay me $100 so we could get the interview process started"?

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Community Guru
Tom Z Member Since: Jul 10, 2016
59 of 945

Solange B wrote:

Right here: "How do I access file-sharing tools (e.g., inVision, Google Drive files, Google or Facebook ad accounts)and/or private code services (e.g., Github) that require an email address?
We realize that some tools and services require the sharing of an email address to gain access and have been looking into ways to make it possible for you to use those services in the future. In the meantime, please use Upwork Messages, sharing tools and code services that allow for sharing out links to the files without requiring an email address. As an alternative, you can walk through files via screenshare during an interview to help scope the project."  

 

shows how ignorant the decision and the answers are. I know this will be long but we need to paint a real picture to see if you understand what you're saying, this is how that would go:

 

- Please log in to your Google Ads Account

(wait... wait...)

- Now filter by the last 3 months... right there on the top right

- Now on the left menu click on campaigns.

- Click over there first one...

- No, not the edit button... click cancel and click over the name of the campaign.

- Ok, stay there

[We can either take screenshots or write it down since we're back to the middle ages]

- Now please scroll to the right. Ok, go back to the left.

- Please click on the first Ad Group...

- Over the name... no, don't worry, I know you don't have to know how to navigate this, no need to apologize.

- Ok, now on top please click All Campaigns again... Right there on top on the grey bar...

(half an hour later.... since you have to do it one by one)

- Now please open your Google Analytics account..

(wait.... wait...)

- Right on the bottom left click on settings....

- Now Goals... right there on the right, the third column... yes, there...

- Ok, I see.. So now we need to go to your Google Tags Manager account. Please log in there.... 

- It's tagmanager.google.com

- Try the same credentials that you use for Google Ads...

- Don't worry I have time, it's me who is sorry that you have to go through this...

(20 minutes later)

- Now please on go back to Analytics on the left menu click on Campaigns...

 

Two hours later you're still doing screen sharing.

 

What a great experience... SAID NO ONE EVER!

 

No client in their right mind would go through that. They hire us to save them time and solve their problems. The moment they have to go through this, the frustration this will create, they will immediately go look someplace else. 

 

You have just lowered our value, and turned us into clowns. It's embarrassing. After these many years, over 100K made in your platform as an individual... you want me to embarrass myself. Explain that. 

 

At least just once say: "We apologize since we didn't consider many of these cases" At least apologize. But don't try to make this sound as if you thought this through, you know what you're doing and we need to adapt. 

 

As I said, by the time you need the talent for your precious Business and Enterprise clients, there will be no one left, whether it is freelancers or clients.


 

Exactly. Now think about how many times a client has to go through this per job. Literally they have to do it for each freelancer they want to interview. Find a time, then spend 30 minutes to 2 hours showing the freelancer their account(s) (assuming the screensharing tools work perfectly). That's madness. Whoever came up with this genius idea is has no idea how all of this works. Would I want to hire a freelancer on the new platform? No. I'm not gonna spend 2 hours on each interview, that's rediculous, I have a business to run.

 

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Active Member
Caleb Q Member Since: May 4, 2016
60 of 945

I've been a Top Freelancer at 100% for years in paid search and socialI may have had gripes with Upwork in the past, but I've stuck around because while certain featuers are buggy, the experience I've had overall has been positive. This change will essentially gut media professional's ability to find work...and will kill client appetite to even offer them.

We understand that many users need a way to schedule meetings and interviews. You can use Upwork Messages to quickly discuss and schedule an interview. We are looking at adding new features to Upwork Messages, including a calendar option for scheduling. 

Okay, but why would you roll out this change before you have a solution? You seriously think that most Upwork clients are willing to learn another system to do this?

We realize that some tools and services require the sharing of an email address to gain access and have been looking into ways to make it possible for you to use those services in the future. In the meantime, please use Upwork Messages, sharing tools and code services that allow for sharing out links to the files without requiring an email address.  As an alternative, you can walk through files via screenshare during an interview to help scope the project.

It's pretty blatantly obvious that no decision maker here has ever worked in paid media. Sharing access to Google Analytics, Google Ads and Facebook ad accounts is absolutely vital to the interview process - without the ability to take a cursory review, how can I do the necessary research to understand their situation and convince them why they should hire me? On the flip side, why would a client ever waste hours and hours of their time as a consultant watches them sift through accounts they don't understand?  How is this "improving safety"?

Receiving audits from consultants as a part of the interview is essential for clients to understand whether or not a freelancer is worth their salt and would fit well in the process. You're putting them in a situation where they're going to have to waste countless hours talking to multiple people through a screenshare as they fumble around instead of focusing on their core business. I can't think of a single account I've worked on who has the time for that...they'll just go somewhere else.

Can we please get clarification on any of this? If it "is what it is", just tell me flat out because this is going to hurt paid media professionals substantially.

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