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Re: Active funded milestones

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Community Guru
Douglas Michael M Member Since: May 22, 2015
821 of 876

Susan W wrote:

Douglas Michael M wrote:


Clients cannot close a job without leaving feedback. Accepting this advice, asking the client to close the job is sufficient. Like many others here, I will do everything possible to avoid mentioning feedback, or any other internal Upwork process, to clients. Also, that "will minimize" is rather strong without knowing, as no one can know, exactly what kind of feedback the client will leave.


Out of curiosity, if a client can't close a contract without leaving feedback, how do jobs end up closed in the feeds/profiles with "No feedback given?" Perhaps they don't have to leave public feedback? Private feedback does absolutely no good when it's not visible to the clients looking at our profiles. They will see our JSS percentage, but most of them really have no idea how that intertwines with public vs. private feedback and all the other "things" woven into that score. I think it's a bit confusing to tell people they don't have to remind client's to leave feedback when that is a mantra around here so we don't end up with a string of "No Feedback Given" because that damages the JSS, as well.  What am I missing? Your sentiment seems to  vary greatly from the masses.


Clients have to give star ratings, as well as private feedback (Would you recommend...?) when they close jobs. They do not have to give a narrative public feedback.

  • When they close a job with no public written feedback, only the stars appear, no text.
  • When the freelancer closes the job and the client does not respond to Upwork's prompt(s) to leave feedback, "No feedback given" appears.
  • "No feedback given" or some similar wording may also appear temporarily if there is a delay in feedback showing upon completion of the double-blind process.

Whenever it is to my advantage to close a job, I'll ask the client to do so first, and do it myself if there is no response within a week. No need whatsoever to mention feedback; I leave mine, and Upwork prompts them to leave theirs.

"Sentiment"? I'm guessing you're referring to the policy of not burdening clients with Upwork's mechanics; the "many others" I said join me in that practice are all professional and successful. "The masses"? How quaint.

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Ace Contributor
Andrew C Member Since: Mar 2, 2020
822 of 876

Joanne Marie P says...

 

"Contracts with no earnings and no feedback, whether closed or not, can significantly lower your JSS because they indicate client dissatisfaction."

 

Again - your system is broken. Fix it.

 

Get rid of the **Edited for community guidelines** JSS score. Only those posting actual feedback need count towards my overall customer satisfaction.

 

You do not vet your clients - it is clear that **Edited for Community Guidelines** with a credit card can post a $6/hr job on here.

 

You have opened your platform to stupidity.

 

You have hundreds of complaints posted here and you are NOT LISTENING.

 

It's embarrassing to use Upwork. It's like saying... I use Freelancer. Might as well, they're no better, nor are the projects.

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Community Leader
Aditi J Member Since: Jul 28, 2015
823 of 876

Andrew, I can sense that you are upset about the JSS. And you are not alone. 

 

Along with vetting clients, it is important to provide clients with useful tools. Clients need to have checkboxes to shortlist freelancers they want (e.g., large contract, over $5000 or over $10,000; served on 1 job- 500 jobs... etc.) Rather than be a gate-keeper or a quality controller, Upwork can position itself as a facilitator and have much better results in terms of relationships with both- clients and freelancers. There will be no need for JSS. Star rating feedback is enough.   

 

I too wish that Upwork keeps their mind open and understand that this is not a "sour grapes" situation i.e., just because we didn't get a high JSS, we are complaining.  

 

It takes a lot of humility to hear out someone who is displeased with you; to see that freelancers are giving useful suggestions and want to engage in a meaningful dialogue; and then to critically examine Upwork's role....  

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Community Guru
Douglas Michael M Member Since: May 22, 2015
824 of 876

Aditi J wrote:

....There will be no need for JSS. Star rating feedback is enough.   


Nope. As far back as oDesk, star ratings were rising logarithmically with five as a limit. That is why people will refer to them as window dressing and eye candy. While profiles that buck this trend suggest serious problems, high star ratings are worse than useless as indicators of quality.

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Community Leader
Aditi J Member Since: Jul 28, 2015
825 of 876

Thanks Douglas. I respect your observations and feelings around it. But since Upwork has published no concrete data regarding the inefficiency of star ratings or the efficiency of JSS or the difference it made by implementing JSS, I honestly cannot debate one way or the other. We can agree to disagree on this one Smiley Happy 

 

I wish Upwork was more open, forthcoming and not constantly afraid that freelancers are only interested in "manipulating" their scores.     

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Community Guru
Douglas Michael M Member Since: May 22, 2015
826 of 876

Aditi J wrote:

Thanks Douglas. I respect your observations and feelings around it. But since Upwork has published no concrete data regarding the inefficiency of star ratings or the efficiency of JSS or the difference it made by implementing JSS, I honestly cannot debate one way or the other. We can agree to disagree on this one Smiley Happy 

 

I wish Upwork was more open, forthcoming and not constantly afraid that freelancers are only interested in "manipulating" their scores.     


We can agree to disagree, but the data is public, or I wouldn't know about it. The study was done by oDesk before it acquired Elance (and rebranded itself twice). I only reported the data and its applicability to your suggestion. I do not claim it as an origin story for the JSS. I rarely have "feelings" about data. And I'm never here to "debate."

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Active Member
Herman S Member Since: Apr 30, 2020
827 of 876

How will a cancelled contract with 0 earnings (everything in escrow was refunded) and no feedback given affect a freelancer's Job Sucess Score?

 

Thanks!

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Ace Contributor
Arslan A Member Since: Nov 14, 2019
828 of 876

Hi,

 

I would like to ask one thing and will appreciate if anyone can comment. 

 

I am working on two jobs with funded milstones and both are from same client. However, due to priority the client would like to first finished second job and then we can continue the first job. 

 

- If contract is active for more than 2 week with amount in escrow but have not paid anything yet, will it start affecting JSS ? I read some where it will start effecting if no thing is paid and its been  2 months. 

 

Thanks

 

Arslan

 

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Community Guru
Robin H Member Since: May 28, 2019
829 of 876

I am working on two jobs with funded milstones and both are from same client. However, due to priority the client would like to first finished second job and then we can continue the first job. 

 

You mean 2 separate contracts from the same client? 

 

- If contract is active for more than 2 week with amount in escrow but have not paid anything yet, will it start affecting JSS ? I read some where it will start effecting if no thing is paid and its been  2 months. 

I believe it's 90 days. 2 weeks is nothing. You still have time. 


 

Ace Contributor
Arslan A Member Since: Nov 14, 2019
830 of 876

Hi Robin,

 

Thanks for your comments. Yes 2 separate contracts from same client. 

 

Arslan

 

 

 

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