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Pricing Announcement Follow-Up

Ace Contributor
Joseph R Member Since: Aug 5, 2015
41 of 1,295

Rich P wrote:

Great Idea Rochel, and yes, we are working on something like this.  The payment fee that we added for Clients was meant to balance this out.


I would be happy with a requirement for posters to have at least initiated payment verification before posting. Not so much that I worry about people not paying, but for the very simple idea that it shows some measure of intent. It will also  cut down on nonsense postings by job-fishers and of course, the egregious spammer/scammers.

 

I am sure it is not as easy as just asking a person to submit financial details before hiring (I know I hate it when doing things like downloading demo software), but there has to be some middle ground to get the poster to prove a reasonable intent to hire. Otherwise, it is just another vague poster that pushes the freelancer to waste connects.

 

 

Ace Contributor
Sarah W Member Since: Aug 10, 2010
42 of 1,295

@Joseph R wrote:

@Rich P wrote:

Great Idea Rochel, and yes, we are working on something like this.  The payment fee that we added for Clients was meant to balance this out.


I would be happy with a requirement for posters to have at least initiated payment verification before posting. Not so much that I worry about people not paying, but for the very simple idea that it shows some measure of intent. It will also  cut down on nonsense postings by job-fishers and of course, the egregious spammer/scammers.

 

I am sure it is not as easy as just asking a person to submit financial details before hiring (I know I hate it when doing things like downloading demo software), but there has to be some middle ground to get the poster to prove a reasonable intent to hire. Otherwise, it is just another vague poster that pushes the freelancer to waste connects.

 

 


 Maybe a fee if no one is hired on the job or job is cancelled?

 

For example:

-Fee to client to post job is $10

-$10 sits in escrow to fund first $10 of project, if project is more than $10, client owes balance

-If Client doesn't hire anyone in 21 days (30 is too long in my opinion), $10 is Upwork's and job expires.

 

Thoughts?

Ace Contributor
Joseph R Member Since: Aug 5, 2015
43 of 1,295

@sarah W wrote:

 

 Maybe a fee if no one is hired on the job or job is cancelled?

 

For example:

-Fee to client to post job is $10

-$10 sits in escrow to fund first $10 of project, if project is more than $10, client owes balance

-If Client doesn't hire anyone in 21 days (30 is too long in my opinion), $10 is Upwork's and job expires.

 

Thoughts?


 

 

All I am asking for is some sign the posting is serious. That as opposed to the completely unverified postings that pollute the listings. Certainly verification may scare some legit people away, but if structured correctly, I think it could work. 

 

Having the buyer put money into escrow before a job is awarded strikes me as too much though. It would be like having to pay for your appetizer (which you have yet to order) just to look at the menu. Also, in the case of funding a job, (if I understand the process, correct me if I am wrong), it takes a day or two to actually be able to fund and verify after the initial application. With that being the case, I would not expect making a client wait until verified. Just the act of getting an account prepped would be a huge step.

 

One huge advantage would be that the run-of-the-mill scammer would be scared off. Scammers do not like to be tracked.

 

This is not a new idea btw. It has been kicked around for years. I just thought to throw it out there again. I doubt anything will come of this but one can always hope.

 

 

 

Ace Contributor
Susan M Member Since: Feb 14, 2016
44 of 1,295

@Joseph R wrote:

@sarah W wrote:

 

 Maybe a fee if no one is hired on the job or job is cancelled?

 

For example:

-Fee to client to post job is $10

-$10 sits in escrow to fund first $10 of project, if project is more than $10, client owes balance

-If Client doesn't hire anyone in 21 days (30 is too long in my opinion), $10 is Upwork's and job expires.

 

Thoughts?


 

 

All I am asking for is some sign the posting is serious. That as opposed to the completely unverified postings that pollute the listings. Certainly verification may scare some legit people away, but if structured correctly, I think it could work. 

 

Having the buyer put money into escrow before a job is awarded strikes me as too much though. It would be like having to pay for your appetizer (which you have yet to order) just to look at the menu. Also, in the case of funding a job, (if I understand the process, correct me if I am wrong), it takes a day or two to actually be able to fund and verify after the initial application. With that being the case, I would not expect making a client wait until verified. Just the act of getting an account prepped would be a huge step.

 

One huge advantage would be that the run-of-the-mill scammer would be scared off. Scammers do not like to be tracked.

 

This is not a new idea btw. It has been kicked around for years. I just thought to throw it out there again. I doubt anything will come of this but one can always hope.

 

 

 


 

Sorry, but I feel the need to mention this one thing:

 

I received invitations from several scammers/spammers that had verified payment methods. I even fell prey to one because they were 'verified'.

 

So I'm interested in finding a solution to deter those non-serious/non-legit, who are looking for an easy target.

Active Member
Michael N Member Since: May 11, 2016
45 of 1,295
@sarah W wrote:

 

 Maybe a fee if no one is hired on the job or job is cancelled?

 

For example:

-Fee to client to post job is $10

-$10 sits in escrow to fund first $10 of project, if project is more than $10, client owes balance

-If Client doesn't hire anyone in 21 days (30 is too long in my opinion), $10 is Upwork's and job expires.

 

Thoughts?


 

Not sure how well that would work (as a Client). 

It basically penalises clients if they don't get a suitable applicant, so I don't think this is a solution.

Community Guru
Joachim M Member Since: Mar 23, 2015
46 of 1,295

@Michael N wrote:
@sarah W wrote:

 

 Maybe a fee if no one is hired on the job or job is cancelled?

 

For example:

-Fee to client to post job is $10

-$10 sits in escrow to fund first $10 of project, if project is more than $10, client owes balance

-If Client doesn't hire anyone in 21 days (30 is too long in my opinion), $10 is Upwork's and job expires.

 

Thoughts?


 

Not sure how well that would work (as a Client). 

It basically penalises clients if they don't get a suitable applicant, so I don't think this is a solution.


Not really Michael. It penalises the endless number of clients never awarding jobs on Upwork (many simple cut out Upwork, I've reported some myself), clients posting jobs without specifying deliverables and clients aiming at bottom feeders only.  In other words, it encourages clients to think before posting a job and to use reasonable budgets. It also gets rid of all these 1-10 Dollar jobs.

Active Member
Ioannis K Member Since: May 6, 2015
47 of 1,295

" I would be happy with a requirement for posters to have at least initiated payment verification before posting."

Hi Joseph, I had suggested exactly what you are saying on Upwork's feedback section before some months but apparently they ignored it.

However in a second thought I think they probably have a reason, because a new client that doesn't know yet how reliable is the site, perhaps he could be suspicious to give his credit card before deciding that he really wants to hire someone for a job.

 

Community Guru
Alexandra H Member Since: Jul 30, 2015
48 of 1,295

Almost every event, every trade fair or show or similar that I have been to has asked me to pay an ENTRY FEE.

 

Get rid of scammers and people posting jobs they never intend to award by

 

                      asking for an entry-fee !

 

Make it recoupable against contracts and allow access to the site in general (i.e. only make posting an RFP subject to it).

Active Member
Marco Y Member Since: May 4, 2016
49 of 1,295

So client's had increased fees as well? I'm pretty sure of how that's going to end up.

1. We lose money on contracts <500usd 
- You can't simply put everyone in the same bag and say 500 is a reasonable threshold for all categories.

- To have clients that will spend more than 10k here you need to not only attract them but also keep them, this increase will result in freelancers raising their budgets and this will scare off potential long term clients from YOUR platform.

- Wouldn't number of transactions be a variable to consider when assessing financial costs? why don't you ask clients to use escrow and pay contracts on it's entirety for projects of <500usd? this would lower the financial cost wouldn't it?

 

2. "We made a deep analysis, and we're not just throwing this out there without considering it thoroughly"

- The fact that the second threshold jumps from 500 to 10k let's me know that you did not think this through, if you added other levels like 2k 5k 8k and 9% 8%... that would make more sense, your decision seems like someone's who was tired and wanted to go home would take.

 

I do have recurring clients and even I think this is a bad idea, I would often take a few small jobs here and there when I have more time and this will affect not just me but the possible clients because they will be the ones eating the chubby when I raise my rates. or just reject their invitations because the budget is too low. 
Please reconsider this terrible decision, I'm positive freelancers will use this as an explanation on to why they raised their rates, clients will hear this, what do you think is going to happen then? 

For a lot of us internationa freelancers we also need to eat the withdrawal methods' fees when trying to get our money, did you at least try to get better deals on our behalf? 

 

EDITED TO ADD: 3. You say that giving small clients the same level of protection makes you lose money on small contracts.

-Why not add other third party paying methods that supply said protection and security? let's say that for small contracts you charge via Paypal or any other third party service and let them handle the security issues, yes I'm sure they have a cost but I reckon it would be WAY lower than 20%!! 

Community Guru
Signe J Member Since: Jan 29, 2016
50 of 1,295

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