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Requested design updates to the Upwork Desktop App

Community Guru
Rene K Member Since: Jul 10, 2014
31 of 97

@Petra R wrote:


"Stay away from negative people. They have a problem for every solution." —Albert Einstein

 

 


I may be wrong, but I'm practically sure that, like many other quotes Einstein is credited with, that one is not from him. People use Einstein's name to make all kind of statements, the Internet is full of these.

 

This quote is a good one, though, but has probably a totally different origin.

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"Where darkness shines like dazzling light"   —William Ashbless
Community Guru
Petra R Member Since: Aug 3, 2011
32 of 97

@Rene K wrote:

@Petra R wrote:


"Stay away from negative people. They have a problem for every solution." —Albert Einstein

 

 


I may be wrong, but I'm practically sure that, like many other quotes Einstein is credited with, that one is not from him. People use Einstein's name to make all kind of statements, the Internet is full of these.

 

This quote is a good one, though, but has probably a totally different origin.


If I ever find the time (unlikely) I'll verify with this book Smiley Wink

 

Active Member
Ken R Member Since: Jun 5, 2016
33 of 97

The same thing is said to be true of Winston Churchill - many of the quotations attributed to him are apocryphal also.

 

However, with Einstein, it goes beyond quotations. Attributing the A-bomb to Einstein is also incorrect, or so I have heard. What he did was write a letter to Roosevelt at the behest of the actual discoverer of the bomb's potential, to get Roosevelt to take it seriously.

Community Guru
Douglas Michael M Member Since: May 22, 2015
34 of 97


 

@Petra R wrote:

 

It counts and bills and charges 10 minute segments. 6 of them per hour. Always has done. The segments are, and always have been, XX.00 to XX.10, XX.10 to XX.20, XX.20 to XX.30, XX.30 to XX.40, XX.40 to XX.50, XX.50 to XX.00

Segments with keyboard and / or mouse activity and a screenshot are counted, billed, and charged. There is never more than one screenshot in any one segment. Logging off before a screenshot has been taken in any one segment means the segment is not counted, billed or charged.


Well understood. So it's a logger. It is not and never has been a timer. The minute count some of us have been bemoaning was always just window dressing, and the app may be better off without its nonfunctional overhead.
 

Community Guru
Petra R Member Since: Aug 3, 2011
35 of 97

@Douglas Michael M wrote:


 The minute count some of us have been bemoaning was always just window dressing, and the app may be better off without its nonfunctional overhead.

 


 No idea, but minutes matter as not enough active minutes make a segment disputable.

 

My biggest gripe is that sessions are no longer displayed, as they were before.

 

Active Member
Martin N Member Since: Mar 4, 2015
36 of 97

No, that's not the way it is working.  If you stop at 10 minutes on the clock, the app will only show 4 bars and the client will think you are shorting them.  If you wait for the screen shot, the app will complete the first 10 minute bars, but show 4 bars on the next 10 minutes.  To avoid charging the client another 10 minutes while only working 2 or 3, you will have to delete the time and lose 2 or 3 minutes of your own time.   This is not how work timers are supposed to work.  It's just plain idiotic.

Moderator
Avery O Moderator Member Since: Nov 23, 2015
37 of 97

Hi Martin, 

I'm not sure what you meant by bars, but if you're referring to your Work Diary, the row of green blocks that you're seeing on your diary is the Activity Meter. It shows the number of minutes out of a 10-minute billing segment that had activity. And it shows how active you've been in that time segment in terms of mouse clicks, scroll actions, and keystrokes (activity) per segment. 

As an example, if you've been reading a website and had minimal "activity" on a certain 10-minute block, the green bars will only be less. Otherwise, if you've been active, there will be more green bars on your Work Diary. You can click on the meter for a detailed view, including minute-by-minute activity counts.


-Avery
Untitled
Active Member
Pavla H Member Since: Jul 28, 2018
38 of 97

@Martin N wrote:

 If you wait for the screen shot, the app will complete the first 10 minute bars, but show 4 bars on the next 10 minutes.  To avoid charging the client another 10 minutes while only working 2 or 3, you will have to delete the time and lose 2 or 3 minutes of your own time. 


 Hello Avery, Martin,

 

I may be wrong but I think that there are two things to be distinguished when it comes to activity recorded. One thing is the activity (green) bars that monitor the activity in a given ten-minute window and the other thing is the fact that it is not until the screenshot is taken when the activity that preceded it is recorded in the minute-by-minute overview (for which the time frame is not the 10-minute slot but snapshot-to-snapshot slot).

 

So for example, if one wants to work for a full hour and the last (6th) screenshot is taken in the 51st minute, there are still 9 minutes to go. These 9 minutes will get reflected (provided we keep working, indeed) in the Work Diary in the form of green bars (1 minute in which we were active = 1 bar). And if we stop exactly at the 60th minute, we will have 6 full slots in WD. (@Martin, this is, IMO, all we need to worry about)

 

That said, the counts of mouse clicks and keystrokes etc of those last post-screenshot minutes (i.e. for the 52nd–59th minute of our work) will not show/get recorded on the minute-by-minute Snapshot details overview. This can happen anywhere between the 60th and 69th minute. But if we later delete the extra (7th)  slot, the overview of those last 9 minutes of the previous (6th) slot will get deleted with it, because these snapshot overviews are linked to the 10-minute slots.

 

Just wanted to share my two cents but I don't find it an issue really, as it is not me, the contractor, who needs those minute-by-minute details of the last minutes of my work. I am fine as long as the green bars properly reflect my activity and so far, it seems that the app is doing its job, well, at least in this respect. I still have some reservations regarding the last so-called "upgrade".

Active Member
Martin N Member Since: Mar 4, 2015
39 of 97

Hi Pavla,

 

I have a different perspective of the timing of the completion of the activity bars than you do, so I made a screen recording of the app adjacent to the system clock while working for an hour and checking the activity after each snapshot.  

 

The 10 minute clock is updated at the randomly selected time chosen for the snapshot.  This makes it completely useless for the contractor to use as a gauge of time spent working because a) only 5 minutes may have passed and b) the contractor would have to be watching the app exactly at the time the 10 minute clock is updated to catch the change.

 

Shortly after the 10 minute clock is updated, three bars (the same each time in the hour of my test) are added to the new 10 minute segment in the diary and the three bars in the previous 10 minute segment of the diary are updated to 10 bars (demonstrating my work ethic).  This also means it is impossible to use checking of progress in the diary to determine if 10 minutes of work has been completed (I believe you already pointed this out) and that you are certain to charge your client a full 10 minutes of work for the last last segment when you are likely to have only worked a few minutes at most.  It is also impossible for the contractor to correct for the last segment timing error without docking their own time.

 

My conclusion is that the recent update to the app was a huge step backwards and must be fixed.

 

 

 

Active Member
Pavla H Member Since: Jul 28, 2018
40 of 97

Hi Martin,

 

I agree that the way the 10-bar segment (or 10-minute clock) gets updated is terribly confusing.  I believe we are agreed on the fact that it only gets updated once the next screenshot is made, so until then, the WD diary does not show data properly and indeed contractors cannot use WD to see whether they successfully completed the last segment or not.

 

What we are forced to do is that we have to start working at hh:00 or close. Instead of having an app which would simply track our time and be helpful for us, we have an app which limits us and dictates how we should manage our time because it is so limited itself.

 

Contributors' lives would be much easier if the time tracker just tracked our time in any given time frame and reflected our activity not within hh:00-hh: 09-minute slots but any 10-minute slots (e.g. if I started working at 10:26 then all slots would mark my time accordingly). Currently, if I started at 10:26 and finished at 11:26, my WD would look bad and it would not reflect the reality - i.e. that I indeed worked for a full hour. The app dictates when I should be ready to start working.

 

One good news is that you do not need to wait for the next screenshot when you are about to finish, which is what I had the chance to check yesterday.  Example: Last screenshot was taken in the 3rd minute of the 10-minute segment - at 8:22:12 pm, so the slot showed only 3 green bars. WD still showed only 3 green bars even when I moved over to another 10-minute segment (8:30–8:39 pm). However, I did not wait until the next screenshot,  I stopped the clock at 8:30 pm. Once I stopped tracking the time, the WD updated and my last 10-minute segment (8:20–8:29) filled up with another 7 green bars, making the total of 10.

 

So, technically, all is fine and we do not need to wait till next screenshot is taken to stop tracking time once we finish working on the last not-updated-in-WD-yet 10-minute segment. From the personal perspective, the way the time is tracked is very limiting and it simply sucks.

 

I understand that for some people it is inconvenient not to be able to see their progress in real time within those last ten minutes. As for me, if I know I was working properly and that I was writing or clicking away, I know my slots are going to reflect that and do not use WD to see my progress - I try to guess that from the last version of the app, which only kind of helps (it was much easier when we could see the elapsed time in current session). Indeed, I do check my WD at the end of the day and if I noticed (and it did happen) that there are unusual gaps in my WD where I am sure I was working properly, I go and investigate and if need be, file a ticket.

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