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Terms of Service Update 2018

Community Guru
Nichola L Member Since: Mar 13, 2015
31 of 128

@Maria T wrote:

Please, hire some translators and translate the TOS to other languages.
They are confusing in themselves. If you have to read them in another language that you do not master, the thing is already crazy.

[...]

Maria, don't go there! It's hard enough to understand the English. The translators would have a very, very hard time. 

 

Community Guru
Jess C Member Since: Feb 18, 2015
32 of 128

I would also like to point out that it is extremely confusing to try and grasp the changes when the links to the various documents keep changing, with the result that some links in the initial announcement post now point to the old versions, but which are still tagged as "effective April 20, 2018."

 

UPDATE: the links in the Announcement are now correct. They were in a state of flux for a couple of hours. The links below are also correct.

 

New User Agreement: https://www.upwork.com/legal#updated-user-agreement

 

Old User Agreement: https://www.upwork.com/legal#useragreement

 

New Terms of Use: https://www.upwork.com/legal#updated-terms-of-use

 

Old Terms of Use: https://www.upwork.com/legal#terms-of-use

 

New "Optional Service Contract Terms": https://www.upwork.com/legal#optional-service-contract-terms

 

Many of the links on the legal page (https://www.upwork.com/legal#terms) are incorrectly coded, or contain errors in their descriptive labels (see Escrow Instructions, current Terms of Use and Optional Service Contract Terms in the main list on that page).

 

[UPDATE: corrected.]

 

There is no indication of changes on any other pages. Can someone official PLEASE clarify if anything has been updated under, most importantly, Escrow Instructions (for BOTH hourly and fixed-price contracts)?

Community Guru
Maria T Member Since: Nov 12, 2015
33 of 128

: robotlol:

Oh, Jess! What would we do without you?

Community Guru
Pat M Member Since: Jun 18, 2016
34 of 128

As I've quoted previously regarding other situations:  "Never mistake activity for progress."  

Community Guru
Jess C Member Since: Feb 18, 2015
35 of 128

There is no indication of changes on any other pages. Can someone official PLEASE clarify if anything has been updated under, most importantly, Escrow Instructions (for BOTH hourly and fixed-price contracts)? 

This is a very important question and has so far been ignored.

Community Manager
Lena E Community Manager Member Since: Apr 7, 2015
36 of 128
Jess,

No, there have been no changes to the escrow process for fixed price or hourly contracts.
Also, thanks for pointing out the typo on of on and not until on the actual Optional Service Contract Page it is and has been corrected. That page with links was added as a quick reference for you all to be able to access the links until this updates May 20th. The legal team fixed the typo and apologizes.
Untitled
Community Guru
Jess C Member Since: Feb 18, 2015
37 of 128

@Lena E wrote:
Jess,

No, there have been no changes to the escrow process for fixed price or hourly contracts.
Also, thanks for pointing out the typo on of on and not until on the actual Optional Service Contract Page it is and has been corrected. That page with links was added as a quick reference for you all to be able to access the links until this updates May 20th. The legal team fixed the typo and apologizes.

Thank you! The list (as corrected) is helpful.

 

Suggestion for future major changes: please make extra effort to  ensure everything is actually ready for public consumption, fully proofread, triple-checked, and sat on for at least a couple of days, then re-checked before posting. This is not the first time that users have had to spend (volunteer!) time combing through errors and omissions, large and small, which is a headache for everyone. While I know firsthand with projects like this that all that text stops looking like English after staring at it for a long time, I believe the number of lives and careers that are directly affected by even minor changes merits special attention and care.

Community Guru
Wendy C Member Since: Aug 24, 2015
38 of 128

Earlier in this thread Nichola wrote:

 

"Upwork is going to have to find another way of preventing circumvention. 

One way is to monitor clients. A small subscription fee could go a long way to deterring scammers and chancers."

 

I'm adding +100000 to her comment.

Community Guru
Pat M Member Since: Jun 18, 2016
39 of 128

@Jess C wrote:

@Lena E wrote:
Jess,

No, there have been no changes to the escrow process for fixed price or hourly contracts.
Also, thanks for pointing out the typo on of on and not until on the actual Optional Service Contract Page it is and has been corrected. That page with links was added as a quick reference for you all to be able to access the links until this updates May 20th. The legal team fixed the typo and apologizes.

Thank you! The list (as corrected) is helpful.

 

Suggestion for future major changes: please make extra effort to  ensure everything is actually ready for public consumption, fully proofread, triple-checked, and sat on for at least a couple of days, then re-checked before posting. This is not the first time that users have had to spend (volunteer!) time combing through errors and omissions, large and small, which is a headache for everyone. While I know firsthand with projects like this that all that text stops looking like English after staring at it for a long time, I believe the number of lives and careers that are directly affected by even minor changes merits special attention and care.

_________________________________________________________________________

AMEN! AMEN! and yet another AMEN!!!


 

Community Guru
Wassim T Member Since: May 29, 2015
40 of 128

Lena,

 

One of the most important aspects of conducting business with a client starts with communication. Up until this moment, I have always relied on Skype communication prior to having an active contract in place and at later post-hiring stages too. We were not allowed to post our contact information via a proposal, but it was totally fine to share those in case the client wants to discuss the project in detail via video call on Skype for example, so both of us get to feel the personal connection, and discuss more details and share files quickly to estimate things and give quotes, make decisions, etc...

 

Messaging on Upwork has got some serious issues. I often don't get notified of new messages, and you never know when the platform goes down. You also introduced video call feature, and I tried it enormously on Upwork and can ensure to you that this is nowhere close to the experience one can have on Skype. I have a 4G connection and your app does not offer video compression and sucks all my bandwidth when I call via your app, because your app thinks that I have a speedy connection so they can deliver ultra-high video quality through my HD webcam, and if I want to share screen it doesn't always work because my connection is almost taken by the video, so I have a very hard time sharing my screen with my clients on Upwork Video Calls while my camera is on. Skype does make video compression and adjust depending on your activity. Sharing screen on Upwork requires an additional extension installed in my browser which slows it down. Your entire app runs in the browser actually and this is something I don't like because it doesn't take advantage of the native system resources like a native Windows or Mac app, and makes my browser experience bad all-together. There is also no way to speak on video from Upwork's mobile app like we can do on Skype. I understand that you are improving this app and I have spotted several improvements in the past few months, but you must understand that your app currently cannot be a Skype replacement by any mean.

 

On top of all that, I have been in situations where Upwork goes down for hours and I lose connection with the client and sometimes lose opportunities. Skype helped me stay in touch with them and explain to them about your continuous technical problems so if they're a new client they don't have to think that Upwork doesn't work and they don't have to run away. I think it's a blessing to have another medium of connection because Upwork's platform is not stable. If you really wanna apply these terms, at least make sure the platform is consistent and that your communication apps are working as the end user is expecting them to work.

 

I highly recommend that you guys revise this term. You guys are afraid that the client and the freelancer decide to work off-platform to avoid paying the fees - which is unethical - but I understand why you're doing it, but I don't think you should apply a punishment to good people only because bad people exist. It's your job to spot people who are misusing the platform and not punish the loyal ones who never thought about cheating or misusing the platform in any way.