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Terms of Service Update 2018

Community Guru
Isabelle Anne A Member Since: May 19, 2014
51 of 119

Others have pointed out the most important issues, but I'm also really curious to know how Upwork can claim the word "Up" as a tradmark?? 

 

Also, as I'm not getting email notifications for Upwork messages (just another bug), is it wise to limit alternative communication methods with potential clients?

Community Guru
Maria T Member Since: Nov 12, 2015
52 of 119

@Isabelle Anne A wrote:

 

Also, as I'm not getting email notifications for Upwork messages (just another bug), is it wise to limit alternative communication methods with potential clients?


 

I think we do not have to pay fair for sinners.
Do they do it to protect new freelancers from possible abuse?
Well, look for another way that does not obstruct the flow of communication to those who already know how this works.

 

If that new rule of the TOS to restrict alternative methods of communication with customers goes ahead, I think it will be a disaster.
Even in the interview stage for a possible job, I often use the mail for communication. I find it more friendly and comfortable, in addition to not having to be aware of the "down" of Upwork (which has given me problems more than once).

 

The important thing, what I want to be reflected, I write it through Upwork. But for constant processing and sending samples, for example, I prefer another method.
And, if I can not give my mail, and the client can not give me his, how do I do it?

Community Guru
John K Member Since: Feb 17, 2015
53 of 119

Perhaps this is not a new provision in the ToS, but I find this example of prohibited site use curious:

  • Selling, trading, or giving an account to another person without Upwork’s consent;

Does that mean there are circumstances under which Upwork would consent to the sale, trade, or other transfer of freelancer profiles?

__________________________________________________
"No good deed goes unpunished." -- Clare Boothe Luce
Community Guru
Ela K Member Since: Feb 9, 2015
54 of 119

@John K wrote:

Perhaps this is not a new provision in the ToS, but I find this example of prohibited site use curious:

  • Selling, trading, or giving an account to another person without Upwork’s consent;

Does that mean there are circumstances under which Upwork would consent to the sale, trade, or other transfer of freelancer profiles?


Good question.

I can think of at least one case where UW seems to go out of their way to protect a profile that I can prove used to belong to another person (the one you, John,  figured out correctly Smiley Wink) or was 100% fraudulent from the get-go.

Either way, this profile is now obviously - for all the world to see - associated with another provider than some months ago and UW seems to be down with that. And it surely isn't the only case.

 

Also, the fact that it's now possible to sub-contract hourly jobs as well seems to indicate that UW was tired of dealing with complaints about farming operations. I have the impression that it just got easier to thrive in the 'shadows'. 

And at the same time, somebody (and I REALLY want to know who came up with the idea to penalize communication outside the platform prior to contracting!) is seriously trying to make it harder for us to conduct our business. 

The only explanation I can come up with is that either the people discussing the changes do NOT know how

a) this platform or

b) freelancing works.

Quite possibly both. 

Community Guru
Rene K Member Since: Jul 10, 2014
55 of 119

@Ela K wrote:

@John K wrote:

Perhaps this is not a new provision in the ToS, but I find this example of prohibited site use curious:

  • Selling, trading, or giving an account to another person without Upwork’s consent;

Does that mean there are circumstances under which Upwork would consent to the sale, trade, or other transfer of freelancer profiles?


Good question.

I can think of at least one case where UW seems to go out of their way to protect a profile that I can prove used to belong to another person (the one you, John,  figured out correctly Smiley Wink) or was 100% fraudulent from the get-go.


I would love to know how the selling of a profile works. Now that this is officially allowed (and we all know of this German translator who transferred her profile to a Nigerian guy).

 

Let's say I want to sell mine. So how does this work? Do I have to send a request to Upwork? Do they take a cut?

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"Where darkness shines like dazzling light"   —William Ashbless
Community Guru
Reinier B Member Since: Nov 3, 2015
56 of 119

@Rene K wrote:

@Ela K wrote:

@John K wrote:

Perhaps this is not a new provision in the ToS, but I find this example of prohibited site use curious:

  • Selling, trading, or giving an account to another person without Upwork’s consent;

Does that mean there are circumstances under which Upwork would consent to the sale, trade, or other transfer of freelancer profiles?


Good question.

I can think of at least one case where UW seems to go out of their way to protect a profile that I can prove used to belong to another person (the one you, John,  figured out correctly Smiley Wink) or was 100% fraudulent from the get-go.


I would love to know how the selling of a profile works. Now that this is officially allowed (and we all know of this German translator who transferred her profile to a Nigerian guy).

 

Let's say I want to sell mine. So how does this work? Do I have to send a request to Upwork? Do they take a cut?


 Rene, the usual fee structure will likely apply. In your case though, the fee will only be 5%, since you will almost certainly get more than $10 000 for your account/profile Smiley Happy

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The problem with silver linings is that they always come with dark clouds attached - RB
Community Guru
Reinier B Member Since: Nov 3, 2015
57 of 119

@Ela K wrote:

@John K wrote:

Perhaps this is not a new provision in the ToS, but I find this example of prohibited site use curious:

  • Selling, trading, or giving an account to another person without Upwork’s consent;

Does that mean there are circumstances under which Upwork would consent to the sale, trade, or other transfer of freelancer profiles?


Good question.

I can think of at least one case where UW seems to go out of their way to protect a profile that I can prove used to belong to another person (the one you, John,  figured out correctly Smiley Wink) or was 100% fraudulent from the get-go.

Either way, this profile is now obviously - for all the world to see - associated with another provider than some months ago and UW seems to be down with that. And it surely isn't the only case.

 

Also, the fact that it's now possible to sub-contract hourly jobs as well seems to indicate that UW was tired of dealing with complaints about farming operations. I have the impression that it just got easier to thrive in the 'shadows'. 

And at the same time, somebody (and I REALLY want to know who came up with the idea to penalize communication outside the platform prior to contracting!) is seriously trying to make it harder for us to conduct our business. 

The only explanation I can come up with is that either the people discussing the changes do NOT know how

a) this platform or

b) freelancing works.

Quite possibly both. 


 It seems that as a sort of compromise in allowing sub-contracting, contracts are now in peril of a dispute for only 30 days, as opposed to 60 days as before. Interestingly, I also noticed that all references to "Payment Protection" for fixed-price contracts have been removed from the updated ToS/User agreement. Unless of course, I missed something.  

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The problem with silver linings is that they always come with dark clouds attached - RB
Community Guru
Maria T Member Since: Nov 12, 2015
58 of 119

@Reinier B wrote:


 It seems that as a sort of compromise in allowing sub-contracting, contracts are now in peril of a dispute for only 30 days, as opposed to 60 days as before. Interestingly, I also noticed that all references to "Payment Protection" for fixed-price contracts have been removed from the updated ToS/User agreement. Unless of course, I missed something.  


@ @Reinier B, or any other, can you tell me where to find that information?
I was looking and I only found this:

"In cases where you’d like money back from a freelancer, you’ll need to request a refund through Upwork within 180 days of the payment."

Moderator
Vladimir G Moderator Member Since: Oct 31, 2014
59 of 119

Also, the fact that it's now possible to sub-contract hourly jobs as well seems to indicate that UW was tired of dealing with complaints about farming operations. I have the impression that it just got easier to thrive in the 'shadows'. 

 

Hi Ela,

 

The ToS hasn't changed in this respect and transitioning Hourly contracts continues to be prohibited.

 

Community Guru
Jess C Member Since: Feb 18, 2015
60 of 119

@Vladimir G wrote:

Also, the fact that it's now possible to sub-contract hourly jobs as well seems to indicate that UW was tired of dealing with complaints about farming operations. I have the impression that it just got easier to thrive in the 'shadows'. 

 

Hi Ela,

 

The ToS hasn't changed in this respect and transitioning Hourly contracts continues to be prohibited.

 


Please explain.

 

Section 2.1 of the NEW User Agreement states:

 

Freelancers are free to use subcontractors or employees to perform Freelancer Services and may delegate work on fixed-price contracts or by agreeing with their Clients to have hourly contracts for Freelancer’s subcontractor(s) or employee(s).

 

vs.

 

Section 8.2 of the EXISTING User Agreement:

 

To ensure accurate billing, work billed for Hourly Contracts under a Freelancer’s Account must be performed by the Freelancer that has the Account.

 

The term "subcontractor" only appears in section 2.1 in the NEW User Agreement, and this second statement does not exist there at all.