@Pat M wrote:
In addition to the previous quote I posted and all of the well-deserved kudos I've given in this thread at this point I'm simply going to add another quote. "It doesn't matter how long you work on something, what counts is getting it done right." Upwork PLEASE get it done right.
Here is my thought; were the updates to the ToS and User Agreements written by actual, licensed attorneys?
The problem with silver linings is that they always come with dark clouds attached - RB
So, CAN WE PROVIDE a phone number or ask the client for a phone number, email or Skype id PRIOR/BEFORE hiring WITHOUT pentalty or suspension??????
Your answer is still NOT clear on upworks plans for this addition to the TOS!
Please make this CRYSTAL CLEAR as this is a HUGE issue if left ambiguous!
+ 1 to Phyllis >
"The groundwork for a successful client relationship starts during the interview phase and it cannot be done using only UW's messaging platform.
Instead of trying to construct fail-safes for the inexperienced, lazy, and/or dishonest people, which have the unintended but very real consequence of hamstringing the rest of us, UW should be looking for ways to make sure newbies enter the platform the right way, understanding what's expected of them (and filtering out the scammers)."
However, it would save everyone a lot of time and angst if instead of simply posting both versions there was an easily accessible note explaining what changes have been made.
And the addition of explanatory notes at the beginning of sections is a good move.
@Lena E wrote:
That statement is not in the ToS. Nothing has changed in regards to where you can provide contact information.
The statement that direct contact information was prohibited prior to accepting a contract WAS included in the first draft that was posted as of the original announcement last Friday.
Then we pointed it out (see this post), and Upwork walked it back, restoring the original language that contact information cannot be included in a job post or on profile pages, which is how it has been until now.
The additional "explanation" that these Terms were not yet in force served to add confusion, since the Terms themselves state that they ARE in force for any new users, but not for existing users until May 20th.
But the main point: Upwork apparently has been considering limiting all direct communication, but has not done so yet. Hopefully they will actually listen to reason and shelve that idea permanently.
Given the instability of the platform and communications through the platform, I will most likely leave Upwork if I cannot communicate with potential clients except through Upwork. I've already been dinged - albeit slightly - for not responding to invitations within 24 hours because Upwork did not communicate one invitation to me in a timely fashion.
I work almost exclusively with attorneys and they want to speak with me directly, on a real telephone, before hiring me. It's just how they work.
Evidently Upwork is unaware of this or chooses not to believe it, but that's how numerous potential Clients work. Of course as with many items I'm confident that that varies with individuals' fields of expertise.
We discuss highly sensitive issues (medical records, for example) before I am hired. My clients do not want that type of discussion going through a third party platform.
As like Mary W., as a Certified Public Accountant, preparing tax returns and other matters, my prospective clients want to discuss confidential information via a telephone call, not on a 3rd party platform either.