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Upcoming test to display hourly ranges on job posts

Community Manager
Lena E Community Manager Member Since: Apr 7, 2015
1 of 17

We have often heard feedback here in the forums that experience level selected by a client doesn't serve as a clear indication of how much the client actually expects to pay.

 

Today, when posting a job, a client chooses an experience level that displays an hourly range. Freelancers see the corresponding $ symbol on job posts but they aren’t given visibility into the actual dollar amount shown to clients.


experience level job.png

This week, we are launching a test among US clients and freelancers.  As part of this test we are separating experience level and budget by giving clients the option to specify an hourly range when posting an hourly job and displaying this information for freelancers to see. We hope this will provide freelancers with additional visibility into the clients rate expectations, while also providing guidance to clients on what an appropriate hourly range for their job may be.

 

 

As part of this test Freelancers allocated will see the range when applying to a job, see image below.


budget proposal.png

 

If a client chooses not to provide an hourly range, then no hourly range will be shown in the job post . See side-by-side comparison of mock-up below:

 

job post range.pngjobpost no range.png

Let us know if you have any questions!

 

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Community Guru
Preston H Member Since: Nov 24, 2014
2 of 17

Um... serious question here:

 

If "Expert" is the highest-paid bracket, why would you display a MAXIMUM suggested hourly amount?

 

I'm seeing "$39.50 - $59.50"

 

Shouldn't this be "$39.50 or higher"

Community Guru
John K Member Since: Feb 17, 2015
3 of 17
Preston, that’s the range specified by the client. The client should have the option to omit either the upper amount or the lower amount if they want to specify $xx and above or $xx and below.

I think this is a nice feature except if most clients decline to specify the range, in which case freelancers will have less information than before, so a better plan, it seems to me, is give clients the choice of doing it this way or the old way.
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Community Guru
Scott B Member Since: Nov 20, 2015
4 of 17

First off, this is a great post. If I am going to make critical remarks when other initiatives are rolled out with poor communication I am going to give kudos when the communication is good. Using the visuals and side by sides is extremely helpful and appreciated. Very nice post, Lena!

 

I guess I am one who didn't realize what the client was seeing prior in terms of dollars associated with expertise. I am not clear if prior the amounts shown in the image was always given or if it varied by the category something was posted under? To know that is where the rate was set for "expert".... However, that's also the problem when providing a cost range that has to work for everyone in the world. The reality is that it doesn't work at all was was even worse than I could have imagined. So really any change from that is a good one.

 

The new process has a fixed bid sensibility to it while still offering the client the ability to not engage at all. I suspect most clients will choose to opt out of saying anything but I am sure some will use it as well. As noted it appears the client can still provide a level of expertise even if there is not range associated. My question is what are clients told about what that level of expertise equates to? Are they shown possible ranges like before? This does feed into the whole Connects change so I imagine the self-rating of a job from "Entry Level" to "Expert" will impact Connects usage. In that regard it is also important to understand what criteria (if any) UW is supplying to clients to define those skill  levels.

 

I am not a big fan of the "jobs like yours typically pay Freelancers $X".  I completely understand why it would be useful to have this information, but at the same time I do not imagine this is generated with truly appropriate data. I am guessing it uses general genres which don't even begin to account for the variety of projects and expectations within a genre. Also, they don't even remotely deal with regional differences which are often dramatic. A simple example. If someone posts a "US Only" job, will the amount there reflect the rates of only those genre's jobs in the US or is it going to come up with global averages? This is actually an easy one for UW to do something about but there are other countries without that type of filter. Regardless, is this a global or country specific rate if country specific is requested of the job? 

 

I am overall a fan of this changes especially seeing how bad it actually was prior. If you are paying for connects I also think this added data - should the client supply it - is an appropriate additional data point for a freelancer to have in making their application decision. 

Community Guru
Rene K Member Since: Jul 10, 2014
5 of 17

Scott B wrote:

If someone posts a "US Only" job, will the amount there reflect the rates of only those genre's jobs in the US or is it going to come up with global averages?


This is an excellent question.

 

 

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"Where darkness shines like dazzling light"   —William Ashbless
Community Guru
Eve L Member Since: Feb 17, 2017
6 of 17

Scott B wrote:

 

I am not a big fan of the "jobs like yours typically pay Freelancers $X".  I completely understand why it would be useful to have this information, but at the same time I do not image this is generated with truly appropriate data. I am guessing it uses general genres which don't even begin to account for the variety of projects and expectations within a genre. Also, they don't even remotely deal with regional differences which are often dramatic. A simple example. If someone posts a "US Only" job, will the amount there reflect the rates of only those genre's jobs in the US or is it going to come up with global averages? This is actually an easy one for UW to do something about but there are other countries without that type of filter. Regardless, is this a global or country specific rate if country specific is requested of the job? 


This. 

 

Unless you have tons of data for this it will without a doubt always be incorrect. Take me as an example. A job a client posts that I would be interested in would probably put him in the category of writing or web content or something like that, and that's it. It wouldn't take in to account that he's looking for someone with experience in my niche and with my native language. And those two last factors are the biggest part if why my hourly rate is what it is.

 

In addition, what you get per hour from a freelancer is also very different. When clients see my hourly rate it seems high, but when I tell them what they can expect from me in an hour, it's not so bad anymore. Some writers write 200 words per hour, others write over 2000 words per hour. So total pay for one project can be the same, even if the hourly rate is very different. I can charge a client 4 times as much as other writers per hour, but still be the cheapest option for the work that needs to get done. This is something that an average rate will of course not tell the client, as the only thing Upwork will tell them is that my rate is well above average.

 

For freelancers with a very specific niche and high hourly rates this is not good news. 

 

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Moderator
Valeria K Moderator Member Since: Mar 6, 2014
7 of 17

Thanks for your feedback, both about the post and about the feature, Scott!

 


Scott B wrote:

If someone posts a "US Only" job, will the amount there reflect the rates of only those genre's jobs in the US or is it going to come up with global averages? This is actually an easy one for UW to do something about but there are other countries without that type of filter. Regardless, is this a global or country specific rate if country specific is requested of the job? 


The numbers for a job being posted as US-only will be based on US-only jobs.

~ Valeria
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Community Guru
Wendy C Member Since: Aug 24, 2015
8 of 17

Valeria, Eve's query applies to many of the higher per hour freelancers because we bring multiple needed skills to every project.   While her niches (writing, translation, Norwegian, and gambling) are more specific than mine (writing, branding, marketing, visualization, and upon request from selected clients, PM) my p/h rate reflects the inclusion of the first 4.  Additional examples would be someone  like Tiffany who, along with being a writer, brings a wealth of legal expertize + she is a registered attorney or Kat who is both a writer and a data scientist. 

 

Our hourly rates, because of other areas of expertize, put us above the rates of writers even by EFA standards. (EFA published rates - https://www.the-efa.org/rates/)

 

Specialized profiles, when the glitches are fixed, will still not address the inherent issue cited.

 

Please comment .... and a big TU @ Scott!

 

 

 

 

Community Manager
Lena E Community Manager Member Since: Apr 7, 2015
9 of 17

Hi Wendy and Eve, 

 

I understand your point. Question, when searching for jobs on the platform, are you finding that clients are posting jobs in your niche at the hourly rate you're looking for?  At times do you bid on jobs that may be lower, and explain why your hourly rate is higher in your proposal?

 

Im asking you feedback on these, because this hourly histogram is meant to assist/provide guidance to clients who may not know what budgets are for their job. A client may know the end product their looking for but may not know the mechanics of how that is created. I can see this occuring in your field, Wendy, marketing and branding, a client know what they want but not whats required to make that happen.

 

Providing some education/guidance with what a budget could be for a job will hopefully prevent many of the jobs posted in this Coffee Break thread with the unrealistic budgets: https://community.upwork.com/t5/Coffee-Break/Crazy-Job-Postings-Part-II/m-p/394821#M32062%3F

 

Again keep in mind this is a test, so when you do start to see this treatment when submitting proposals let us know your feedback- if the budget-range is too low, too high, if you're seeing jobs priced more accurately and less lower budget jobs- which would be good. 

 

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Community Guru
Scott B Member Since: Nov 20, 2015
10 of 17

Appreciate the answers rolling in. A question I asked though that was not commented on is below. Hoping to get an answer to this one:

 

As noted it appears the client can still provide a level of expertise even if there is not range associated. My question is what are clients told about what that level of expertise equates to? Are they shown possible ranges like before? This does feed into the whole Connects change so I imagine the self-rating of a job from "Entry Level" to "Expert" will impact Connects usage. In that regard it is also important to understand what criteria (if any) UW is supplying to clients to define those skill  levels.

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