Lena E wrote:
Hi Wendy and Eve,
I understand your point. Question, when searching for jobs on the platform, are you finding that clients are posting jobs in your niche at the hourly rate you're looking for? At times do you bid on jobs that may be lower, and explain why your hourly rate is higher in your proposal?
Im asking you feedback on these, because this hourly histogram is meant to assist/provide guidance to clients who may not know what budgets are for their job. A client may know the end product their looking for but may not know the mechanics of how that is created. I can see this occuring in your field, Wendy, marketing and branding, a client know what they want but not whats required to make that happen.
Providing some education/guidance with what a budget could be for a job will hopefully prevent many of the jobs posted in this Coffee Break thread with the unrealistic budgets: https://community.upwork.com/t5/Coffee-Break/Crazy-Job-Postings-Part-II/m-p/394821#M32062%3F
Again keep in mind this is a test, so when you do start to see this treatment when submitting proposals let us know your feedback- if the budget-range is too low, too high, if you're seeing jobs priced more accurately and less lower budget jobs- which would be good.
I don't really understand your question. Until this test a clients can just choose $, $$ or $$$ when posting an hourly job, so what budget they have isn't clear at all. However, I wouldn't apply for a job marked with less than expert level.
When I do send a proposal for an hourly job I tell them approximately what I deliver within one hour if they ask in the job post or invitation, but sending long proposals with a lot of details about these kind of stuff I usually don't do, as I would rather talk about it during an interview. I also assume giving some sort of average word count per hour, or other deliverables, is easier for me than for others. The work I do is more or less the same for all clients, and within the same niche, so I can easily estimate more or less what they can get from me.
Also, for me I think I'm already at some sort of disadvantage, as my niche and language is a very narrow one. Actually, there is not a single other freelancer who has the same experience and language as I have on Upwork, so when a client compares my rates with other freelancers they can see already that I'm more expensive, and I don't need Upwork in addition to point this out to them.
I would also like to add that what I see in job posts is that clients very rearly add all the skills they need, which I assume would throw off an algorithm. Say a client just chooses "writing" and "Norwegian", which is common for the jobs I would be interested in, the average rate I would assume would then be set by the average for all Norwegian writers who has chosen "expert level" in their profiles. So then all freelancers who charge extra for additional expertise would most likely be above "average".
I know I'm not a good example to use for this, as other freelancers with more competition in their niches would be worse off than me, but still the same applies. Freelanceers with a high hourly rate will be at an disadvantage. And, I wouldn't want to lower my rates just to come off as a better fit for Upworks algorithms (and I'm guessing that wouldn't be beneficial for Upwork either).
Sorry for the long post, I just had a lot of stuff I wanted to say.
Lena, thanks for the opportunity to expand on what I experience:
A) I completely disregard the designation of intermediate IF the job interests me. (I have never bid on beginner level designated jobs.)
B) I'd say 90% of my bids get at the least a response from the buyer
C) Because a conversation is started (written or via U. chat or comparable venue) I can explain the multiple facets involved and why they must all sync to make the project work
Fixed Price Jobs:
I simply bid what I feel the job is worth. I bid double the stated budget a good portion of the time and have bid triple the budget more than a few times. Again, because a conversation is started (written or via U. chat or comparable venue) I can explain the multiple facets involved and why they must all sync to make the project work. End result - I've landed the jobs despite being over the client's budget.
FYI, I'm highly selective in accepting invites and even more so in blind bidding and am rarely asked to lower my p/h rate which I openly tell clients is how I calculate fixed job quotes.
Our concern is two fold:
When U. puts restrictions on the top end of rates (in any category) they are unconsciously placing restrictions in the buyer mind
This also stymies our ability to explain why multiple skills are needed as buyers will never get beyond why our rates are higher > they will unconsciously think we are trying to scam. i.e., they won'not read our explanatory proposals.
Hope this helps.
Suggestion based on Eve's 2nd post. I'm not a translator but all translation jobs should require that buyers state the type of content to be translated. Translating scientific, legal, medical, etc. terminology requires a greater core level of expertize than translating a letter or book passage.
Scott B wrote:
....I am not a big fan of the "jobs like yours typically pay Freelancers $X". I completely understand why it would be useful to have this information, but at the same time I do not imagine this is generated with truly appropriate data.
Scott, Eve, and Wendy have been more specific about their reservations. I will only add that there are multiple instances, across multiple platform features, services, and initiatives, of Upwork's making me nervous when it says "jobs like yours."
Am I reading Lena's graphic correctly to understand that Upwork (and not the client) defines "expert" pay as $29.50 and above by default, and the client then specifies the range by filling in his/her own numbers? That's how it looks. If so, I think it's a huge disservice to freelancers suggest that "expert" pay begins at $29.50 per hour -- the post indicates these are US jobs, so it would follow that we're talking about pay rates in the US. I don't know an expert in any field/industry who would work for $30 per hour in the US. It sets an unrealistic expectation for clients if they think they're going to get top-notch expertise at such a low rate.
Also, if these generic dollar amounts apply across the board, regardless of industry/field, that's another huge disservice. An entry-level lawyer can easily charge more than an expert-level editor, for instance...
Lakshmanan Prakash A wrote:
I saw the following new feature of hourly rate range($13.00-$25.00) in the job post. Is that mentioned by the client or suggested by the Upwork algorithms
Thanks for your post, Lakshmanan Prakash.
I've merged your comment to the thread where this test was first announced and where you can find more information about how it works. Let us know if you have any further questions.