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financemark
Community Member

A Message to Cheap Clients --

Hey Clients: BEFORE you mark your need as Expert - please take the time to read the description:

 

Expert I am willing to pay higher rates for the most experienced freelancers

18 REPLIES 18
2f5ff562
Community Member

Agreed, they say: i really want professional work here, i will hire but if i dont like it i wont pay.... Budget: 5USD.... really?

feed_my_eyes
Community Member


Mark K wrote:

Hey Clients: BEFORE you mark your need as Expert - please take the time to read the description:

 

Expert I am willing to pay higher rates for the most experienced freelancers


Agreed, but before you search for a job, you can also set up filters to exclude low-paying projects, and then save your search. Then you'll never have to look at another $5 job again. (Unfortunately, this won't help you with jobs that are advertised for a fixed rate of $200 and then the client explains that that's his offer for 1,000 hours of work, but still, it'll at least cut down on your wasted time.)

I would also like to add this one:

 

"I can only pay $X [names ridiculously cheap rate] but I always pay bonuses for great work and if you do a good job, there'll be plenty more in the future".

 

There's not enough eyeroll in the world for that one.

 

 


Christine A wrote:


Agreed, but before you search for a job, you can also set up filters to exclude low-paying projects, and then save your search. Then you'll never have to look at another $5 job again.

The problem I find there is that many clients use $5 as a placeholder and they are actually willing to pay more but use $5 just because they don't know what price to enter in the box.


Christine A wrote:

u search for a job, you can also set up filters to exclude low-paying projects, and then save your search. Then you'll never have to look at another $5 job again. (Unfortunately, this won't help you with jobs that are advertised for a fixed rate of $200 and then the client explains that that's his offer for 1,000 hours of work, but still, it'll at least cut down on your wasted time.)

And it WILL ensure that you never see the many good jobs posted with a $5 placeholder because the client has no idea what an appropriate budget might be but is forced to enter something.


Tiffany S wrote:

Christine A wrote:

u search for a job, you can also set up filters to exclude low-paying projects, and then save your search. Then you'll never have to look at another $5 job again. (Unfortunately, this won't help you with jobs that are advertised for a fixed rate of $200 and then the client explains that that's his offer for 1,000 hours of work, but still, it'll at least cut down on your wasted time.)

And it WILL ensure that you never see the many good jobs posted with a $5 placeholder because the client has no idea what an appropriate budget might be but is forced to enter something.


You're right, I haven't seen many good jobs with a $5 budget, which is why I decided to use filters in the first place. (It also helps with my eye-rolling issues.) But it'll be interesting to see whether there'll be more $5 placeholder RFPs in the near future, as some clients will catch on that it costs freelancers fewer connects to apply to them. 


Christine A wrote:


You're right, I haven't seen many good jobs with a $5 budget, which is why I decided to use filters in the first place. (It also helps with my eye-rolling issues.) But it'll be interesting to see whether there'll be more $5 placeholder RFPs in the near future, as some clients will catch on that it costs freelancers fewer connects to apply to them. 


I agree that it's not many, but I have seen a few jobs worth several hundred or even thousands of dollars with a $5 budget and a note in the text that was basically "you tell me what it's going to cost".

As someone who also hires freelancers, I'm sympathetic to that because the Upwork system offers no good options. You're forced to enter a budget even if you have no clue, and guessing at the budget can backfire. I don't use $5 as a placeholder because I know how that's perceived on the freelancer end, but I think many clients can't imagine an actual $5 project and assume it will be immediately recognized as a placeholder.

I am certainly no fan of these self-assessments of the skill needed. Now that they are going to be used in determining the cost of Connects, makes them even worse. What I didn't know until very recently was what UW provided clients in terms of what these levels mean equated to dollar amounts. From this thread's first post you will see that equates to $29.50/hr or more for an "expert": https://community.upwork.com/t5/Announcements/Upcoming-test-to-display-hourly-ranges-on-job-posts/m-...

 

The reality is that that dollar amount means very different things to very different people world-wide. They also mean very different things to different professions. The concept of expertise being mapped in this way is pretty horrifying. They are planning to change this though based on the link provided above so you can read more details. 

 

Of course there are still clients who select "expert" but then want to offer novice rates. However, knowing what clients have been prompted with based on the details above, and UW shares a good portion of the blame for these "cheap clients". Let's hope we see some improvement with the new process being tested. It can only be an improvement. 

 

@Scott B, Expert used to be $18/hr. I don't get out of bed for $18/hr. If it's $29.30/hr, I'll get out of bed to tell the client I can't work for less than $75/hour, then hang up.

 

An expert web scraper might be $29.50/hour, an expert data entry professional might be $18/hr. I'm a management consultant, and the issues I address are existential for most businesses. I have no idea why someone would want an existential issue solved by someone who doesn't believe he is worth very much.


Bill H wrote:

@Scott B, Expert used to be $18/hr. I don't get out of bed for $18/hr. If it's $29.30/hr, I'll get out of bed to tell the client I can't work for less than $75/hour, then hang up.

 


This is by far my favourite comment in this forum, ever. Thanks for making my day. 🙂

 


Bill H wrote:

@Scott B, Expert used to be $18/hr. I don't get out of bed for $18/hr. If it's $29.30/hr, I'll get out of bed to tell the client I can't work for less than $75/hour, then hang up.

 

An expert web scraper might be $29.50/hour, an expert data entry professional might be $18/hr. I'm a management consultant, and the issues I address are existential for most businesses. I have no idea why someone would want an existential issue solved by someone who doesn't believe he is worth very much.


Similar issue.  I work in finance.  The number of people who want to spend 50 USD on a pitch deck and financial model trying to raise 10m......  Ok, good luck with your presentation mate.

petra_r
Community Member


Scott B wrote:

I am certainly no fan of these self-assessments of the skill needed. Now that they are going to be used in determining the cost of Connects, makes them even worse. What I didn't know until very recently was what UW provided clients in terms of what these levels mean equated to dollar amounts. From this thread's first post you will see that equates to $29.50/hr or more for an "expert": https://community.upwork.com/t5/Announcements/Upcoming-test-to-display-hourly-ranges-on-job-posts/m-...

 


Those ranges differ dramatically between different jobs and skills.

Obviously Upwork are not suggesting that an expert data entry person is at $ 29.50 and an expert programmer is at $ 29.50

 

Also, this is nothing new, those suggested rate ranges have been in place for several years (at least 4 or 5, probably longer)

 

Data Entry.jpg

 

game dev.jpg

 

 

browersr
Community Member


Petra R wrote:

Scott B wrote:

I am certainly no fan of these self-assessments of the skill needed. Now that they are going to be used in determining the cost of Connects, makes them even worse. What I didn't know until very recently was what UW provided clients in terms of what these levels mean equated to dollar amounts. From this thread's first post you will see that equates to $29.50/hr or more for an "expert": https://community.upwork.com/t5/Announcements/Upcoming-test-to-display-hourly-ranges-on-job-posts/m-...

 


Those ranges differ dramatically between different jobs and skills.

Obviously Upwork are not suggesting that an expert data entry person is at $ 29.50 and an expert programmer is at $ 29.50

 

Also, this is nothing new, those suggested rate ranges have been in place for several years (at least 4 or 5, probably longer)

 

Data Entry.jpg

 

game dev.jpg

 

 


Unfortunately it wasn't obvious unless you are also a client. UW does not state how expertise is used nor the fact that they were providing cost ranges. As a client you see and know this for years, but as a freelancer you do not. Additionally, in the post I linked, they made a blanket statement about the cost shown without suggesting it is treated differently per industry. Perhaps that should be obvious, but it doesn't tend to end in a happy place when I assume UW must of course be thinking a certain logical way.... That said and the recent change they are making that does not give these dollar ranges per level, is a positive one and makes that specific issue moot other than as a point of interest for what has been in place to this point. 

petra_r
Community Member


Scott B wrote:


 That said and the recent change they are making that does not give these dollar ranges per level, is a positive one and makes that specific issue moot other than as a point of interest for what has been in place to this point. 


What change will result in no longer suggesting a range?

I read it in such a way that clients continue to see the suggested ranges (where available), but can edit this or add their own?

browersr
Community Member


Petra R wrote:

Scott B wrote:


 That said and the recent change they are making that does not give these dollar ranges per level, is a positive one and makes that specific issue moot other than as a point of interest for what has been in place to this point. 


What change will result in no longer suggesting a range?

I read it in such a way that clients continue to see the suggested ranges (where available), but can edit this or add their own?


I think you are right. It appeared that they were not going to give a range and let the client instead indicate a range. While the latter part of the sentence is true I do think they are still going to give a range based on this sentence: "We hope this will provide freelancers with additional visibility into the clients rate expectations, while also providing guidance to clients on what an appropriate hourly range for their job may be."

 

Now that they can enter an amount though, as freelancers we will get an idea of what UW might be recommending based on what the client indicates the rate is along with the experience level. No guarantee but a better indication than today. That said and I am still expecting to see that most clients won't enter an amount. We'll see on that one.

I no longer see the budget filter option.  I remember using it in the past, but I can't find it anymore when searching for jobs.

versailles
Community Member

This is a good message. Most of the Upwork's freelancers who frequent these forums will agree with it.

 

No client will see it because clients don't come here, or when they do, it's only when they have a specific issue and they need help. It's good that this doesn't happen that much.

 

But yes, it's a good message.

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"Where darkness shines like dazzling light"   —William Ashbless

Concur with the message but I think it’s nicer to refer to frugal or thrifty rather than cheap clients
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