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99a15eec
Community Member

Advice for new clients, current scams, pitfalls, etc.

I've look and read quite a bit on upwork.  Most is pretty general. Start small, Write a good scope of work, milestones etc. fairly common sense business practices.

 

I am interested in any advice or tips from clients or contractors for client side issues and specifically current methods for scaming clients.  I'm not sure what methods would be used.  It seems you write a scope of work and if that scope is met then you pay.  If not then you don't.  My projects tend to engineering design so not as subjective as things like tech writing.

I'm used to a variety of contract arenas such as construction.  On the surface this seems quite straight foward compared to things like construction contracts. 

Specifically @ Preston as I've seen a number of your posts.  I don't not have enough privledge to message you.

6 REPLIES 6
prestonhunter
Community Member

Manning:
There are many regular Forum participants who have considerable experience as clients. My own experience as a client involves hiring over 100 Upwork freelancers. Mostly for smaller, short-term projects.

 

I think you are wise to think about this topic.

But from my perspective, with my experience as a client, freelancer, and Forum participant, I am not concerned about being scammed by a freelancer. I basically think it is impossible to be scammed by a freelancer. But I recognize that I'm speaking from a VERY different place than a NEW client is in. I know from reading in the Forum that clients CAN have very bad experiences.

 

The biggest mistake I see clients making is paying a bunch of money while ASSUMING that something is happening. But they're not actually checking.

 

Cients may come here with a mindset rooted in buying things from a furniture store or puchasing items online:

 

"I ordered a DVD from Amazon. It was cracked in half when it arrived. I sent it back and got a new one."

 

That is NOT how Upwork works. This is NOT how any client should think:

"I paid a freelancer to create a website. The website didn't work the way I wanted it to. I'll get my money back."

 

But that's not what Upwork wants. It is not Upwork's intention that ANY client EVER gets any money back. If a client gets money back, then Upwork LOSES MONEY. Refunds to clients are exceptions. And they are not guaranteed. And worst than that, they are distractions which block a client from moving forward with a project.

 

The best thing any client can do to save money and achieve success in their projects is to plan to NEVER ask for a refund, no matter what. This way, the client won't spend $5000 on a web development project only to realize it doesn't work.

 

INSTEAD, a client will do this:

The client or her project manager will hire freelancers and evalluate their work closely, especially earlly on. Any freelancers whose work they don't love, they will close the contract on and stop working with.

 

So instead of spending $5000 on a website they can't use, they pay $50 to Frank (whose work is terrible) and they pay $50 to Alice (whose work is terrible)... And that's it. They only lost $100 on those freelancers. But the good news is that they paid $50 each to George and Janice, who did great work. The client continued working with George and Janice, who ended up finishing the project for $2500.

Thanks for the reply. I'm sure there are others who have good advice and hope they respond with any insights.  I had noticed your responses in several chains I read and found them to be well considered and to the point.

That is what I thought but wanted to make sure I hadn't missed something.  It will make it easier in working with contractors and not being overyly cautious which can be annoying on the contractor side. 

In reading various forums etc. many contractors thought that upwork favored the clients.  Your perspective makes sense.  Upwork is facilitating the interaction rather than managing it.  I had not considered that refunds would take money out of their pocket and no business would promote that.  But they have to balance that with keep the client happy if they can as the origination of funds.

 

I think of the refund process as a "safety valve."

 

The various refund mechanisms are also marketing tools.

 

Upwork can accurately state in messaging to clients that there are refund tools available and that clients will only pay for work that is actually done.

 

But there is a difference between marketing and project management.

 

Refunds are "real." Upwork's "protection plans" for clients are real. But thinking about actually USING THEM causes clients more trouble than they're worth. Especially new clients who think there is a "get out of jail free" card.

 

A funded escrow payment really IS under a client's control. But not TOTALLY under a client's control. The money is in a true escrow acount, which means that the client can't just do whatever they want with it. Money in an escrow fund is meant to be released to a freelancer. A wise client plans to NEVER get it back.

 

I wouldn't advise a client to think: "I can fund $1000 for this website and I will get it back if the project isn't completely successful."

 

Clients shouldn't fund ANY money in escrow unless they are willing to NEVER get that money back.

Does upwork every do any design compititions that allow a contractor to show there skills and a client to have a side by side comparison?  The work monitoring tools could be used and put with the design submission and it would help on the client side to be able to get a better feel for aspects of managing a contractor as well as lesser known contractors to get recognition.  A voting system peer review would provide feedback to contractors and provide a sorting means for clients looking for a quick way to find talent.

re: "Does Upwork ever do any design competitions that allow a contractor to show their skills and a client to have a side by side comparison?"

 

You are allowed to look at any freelancer's portfolio for free.

 

Also, you are allowed to hire multiple freelancers to do the same task, and then choose only the best submission to use for your project. As long as you pay each freelancer as agreed, Upwork places no limit on how many freelancers you may hire. And Upwork does not require that you actually use any of the work done by freelancers.

 

https://www.upwork.com/legal#prohibitedsite

 

4.1 EXAMPLES OF PROHIBITED USES OF THE SITE
The following are examples of uses that are prohibited on the Site or when using the Site Services:
...Requesting or demanding free services, including requesting Freelancers to submit work as part of the proposal process for very little or no money or posting contests in which Freelancers submit work with no or very little pay, and only the winning submission is paid the full amount;

I've looked a the protfolios.  Jobs they've done through upwork are informative, although they can put anything up for drawings or models and there is no way to know if they just pulled it off the net.  If someone is an established freelancer then it is pretty easy to tell their quality.

If someone is starting it is much more difficult as a client to determine if they are a value.  I would think it in upwork's interest to promote good talent on the system.

 

Yes, I can see why upwork would not want cients to do that, but Upwork could have the contest to add to a ongoing showcase, offering connects or simply letting the freelancers decide if they want to put the time in.  It may be difficult to have contests for all the different disiplines or relevant contests.  If I was a new freelancer I would jump at the chance to showcase my work even if I didn't get paid.  This provides a means of putting work on the system that at the very least came through the freelancer.  If I was established I may not put in the time. 

 

I had not considered hiring multiple but I could see where that might be useful.

 

At some point I will post on this thread the things I found useful that I wish I had read off a newbie quick start list.  Such as the little blue check circle for confirmed address and identity.

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