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Re: Agency Applicants

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11 of 31
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@Jennifer D wrote:
I just want to add/clarify that the job posting was for an hourly, ongoing job. So there should *definitely* be no subcontracting allowed there.

 And before it will be explained again that subcontracting is only allowed for fixed-price but not for hourly contracts, the 50+ languages agency/farmer mentioned above has hired for both in the past and still does. Last example (November to December 2016) Translation of legal content from English to Hungarian, 35 hours...

 
 
Community Guru
Jennifer D Member Since: Feb 15, 2016
12 of 31

I think my person is a different person to yours, Margarete, because mine doesn't have a job like that one. Valeria cleared mine up privately, and while they don't seem to be violating the letter of the rules it does seem to me that they're violating the spirit of them, which isn't enough to suspend them.

 

In any case, when I clearly say that I want to work with my freelancer directly, why do I still get agency applicants? It's annoying.

 

(I know, I know, it's just a preference, like the 90%+JSS - and I myself am a strong advocate of freelancers who don't meet those preferences applying anyway. I just wish there was a way that experienced clients could somehow "enforce" their preference. I know what I'm doing!)

 

(Edited to add: in the interests of full disclosure (and in case a mod comes along and says "well actually..."): I do have exactly one freelancer associated with an agency. That freelancer was NOT associated with an agency when I initially hired them. In between hires, they formed an agency with their partner, who is also a freelance translator. Because of my existing relationship with them, I didn't mind the agency association.)

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13 of 31
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I have reported the 50+ languages agency/farmer not because of subcontracting that is now allowed on Upwork but because of subcontracting two hourly jobs and now I have been asked to prove by screenshots that they are subcontracting. Bizarre! They needed four days "to look into this for me" and this is the result.

 

Edited to add: I am really angry when I see what happens here and that I am not taken serious in any way and I understand why so many freelancers and clients show fraudulent behaviour without any shame on the platform. They see what others do - like this 50+language farmer or academic fraud businesses who are on Upwork for years - and how they earn good money without being disturbed by Upwork's TOS. Upwork's TOS might be relevant for me or others but not for those guys. Keep it, Upwork!

 

Moreover, I have now sent a screenshot to CS with an invitation one of the two freelancers has sent to me where he explained that he has a lot of jobs in German language to prove that he is subcontracting.

Community Guru
Jennifer D Member Since: Feb 15, 2016
14 of 31

I reported him also Margarete. I'm pretty sure I've reported him before but I don't think he had hourly jobs before. But now he has at least 3 hourly jobs which would require him to speak a variety of European languages, which seems extremely unlikely (one of his hourly jobs is to coordinate translations in multiple languages, which I guess is probably okay).

Community Guru
Jennifer D Member Since: Feb 15, 2016
15 of 31

Well. I got a reply from support saying that subcontracting on fixed-price contracts is NOT allowed after all, which directly contradicts what Valeria has repeatedly said here in the forums.

 

I am also being asked to provide evidence other than what is in his profile. When his profile clearly states he has a team of translators and that he can translate between 39 different language pairs.

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Moderator
Valeria K Moderator Member Since: Mar 6, 2014
16 of 31

Jennifer,

 

I'm sorry about the confusion. I'll follow up with the team and we'll clarify it as soon as possible via the ticket and here in the Community.

~ Valeria
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17 of 31
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When I started on Upwork I learned that farming is not allwowed. This later became "subcontracting" and was allowed then on fixed price contracts according to the moderators. And now this agency also subcontracts on hourly contracts. And I have been asked to proof that this 2 persons subcontract for their 50+ different languages. They have been reported several times, it is always said that this account will be checked and in the end they continue the same way they did before. And even if they only subcontracted for fixed price jobs what they do (and other farmers do as well) clearly undermines Upwork's own agency model. Remember, the freelancer who does the job has to appear on the agency profile. If they only farm out via fixed price jobs or via fixed price jobs and hourly jobs is not really relevant. Upwork's agency model is abused by these contracts and even worse: this is tolerated by Upwork.

Moderator
Valeria K Moderator Member Since: Mar 6, 2014
18 of 31

Jennifer,

 

I confirmed it with the team and would like to reiterate that subcontracting on fixed-price jobs is allowed as stated in Upwork ToS article 8.2. We'll provide additional training to the agent who shared incorrect information.

 

Sorry about the confusion.

~ Valeria
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19 of 31
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I cannot find anything in 8.2 explaining that subcontracting is allowed for fixed-price but not for hourly contracts.

Moderator
Valeria K Moderator Member Since: Mar 6, 2014
20 of 31

Margarete,

 

Please, refer to this part regarding subcontracting not being allowed for hourly contracts:

"To ensure accurate billing, work billed for Hourly Contracts under a Freelancer’s Account must be performed by the Freelancer that has the Account."

 

The rest of the article addresses user responsibilities when subcontracting.

~ Valeria
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