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jaliu
Member

Am I doing something wrong as a client? Why are my hires so bad?

So I've been on these sites for a couple years, and for some reason all the hires I make have the same pattern: they are extremely slow or don't do any work at all even from the get go (often will work for a few minutes and make it seem like they made progress), make promises that they don't fulfill, and just disappear whenever they feel like it during conversation without any notice (while I sit there wondering if they will come back). They always have excuses and after the first or second person doing this every day I realized they are just lying. 

 

So you probably already figured out that these were all low cost free freelancers, so I guess it's my fault for not learning my lesson or expecting to get quality service at low cost, but I did vet all their work and they all had great reviews in general. I just don't understand what the problem is: I mean the last person I hired gave me a price and I accepted it without even negotiating, so could it be price related issue even when i'm giving the freelancer everything he/she asked for (and also incentivize with bonus)? I understand that they may be working on other jobs or trying to solicit new ones, but why wouldn't they just tell me so I can set the proper expectations instead of wasting all this time waiting? Why do they accept my job if they don't have the time nor will to work on it? Is their plan to work on the job for 10, 20, 60, however many minutes or so whenever they have free time, stretching out the job for weeks or months and expect the client to wait for them even though they said the whole job would only take a few days? Are they outsourcing the work or trying to figure out the skills required to do the job? I mean, they can't possibly think that the client will be happy with their performance (which also prevents them getting future work and keeping you as a client)? Why do a bad job and get a bad review? 

 

Then if I ask them if they still want the job they'll say yes, but things don't change, and some get mad when you bring up your concerns, acting like you're so a-hole for not thinking their behavior is normal? I always start out by giving them the carrot and lots of freedom but when that doesn't work, neither noes the stick. I am just so confused by their thought process and everytime wonder if I am somehow being scammed. Each and every time I just keep asking myself if there is something I am missing. 

 

Please advise. I am so confused. 

 

P.S. Does anyone know if cancelled jobs actually factor into job success percentage? Perhaps this is why the score does not reflect their actual performance?

57 REPLIES 57


@Jonathan L wrote:
Unfortunately, when you have these kinds of conversations with them, sometimes hours long, things still don't change. It's just a waste of time for both parties, which makes no sense.

 Are you billed for those hours?

No, this is fixed price. Though for hourly rate I see the person just surfing the web in the screenshots.

Jonathan, if you said what type of freelancers you're hiring, I didn't see it. In what field are you hiring?

Web development. I told him/her I was letting him/her go couple days ago and I saw that he/she closed the job today noting that I "failed to pay"! And he/she never even billed me for all this "work that they did"!!! The person kept pressing me to give them a job that I wasn't even hiring for at the time and then when I hired them they didn't do any work... I was able to do what it took them several days to do (while asking for the same directions over chat, failing  and making tons of mistakes in the process) in 10 minutes! And again, I am at a level of 1 or worse in expertise while he/she is at an 8/9.  Always had excuses and always asked to do things later that day which never happened of course.

This is unfortunate, but this is the kind of thing I expect to see when a client hires only one low-cost developer at a time for a web development project, rather than hiring multiple people. Should have hired 5 to 10, really, and continued with only 1 or 2.


@Jonathan L wrote:

Web development. I told him/her I was letting him/her go couple days ago and I saw that he/she closed the job today noting that I "failed to pay"! And he/she never even billed me for all this "work that they did"!!! The person kept pressing me to give them a job that I wasn't even hiring for at the time and then when I hired them they didn't do any work... I was able to do what it took them several days to do (while asking for the same directions over chat, failing  and making tons of mistakes in the process) in 10 minutes! And again, I am at a level of 1 or worse in expertise while he/she is at an 8/9.  Always had excuses and always asked to do things later that day which never happened of course.


Stop whining and hire professionals at professional rates. 

there is no definition of "professioal rate," though i do get how higher cost is correlated with better peformance. to be fair, i didn't intend on hiring this person but he/she pressured me like i said.


@Jonathan L wrote:

there is no definition of "professioal rate," though i do get how higher cost is correlated with better peformance. to be fair, i didn't intend on hiring this person but he/she pressured me like i said.


Well, there are two to the party, one pressing and one allowing himself to be pressed. Learn to say no. And, yes, there are professional rates. Look at what a professional in your country of residence would ask for. Naturally you can follow Preston's suggestion of hiring many people and take the best results - if you can afford the necessary overhead... 


@Jonathan L wrote:

to be fair, i didn't intend on hiring this person but he/she pressured me like i said.


 

What exactly does that mean? What the **Edited for Community Guidelines** are you doing? Did you hire a beggar who ended up learning Wordpress or whatever job you throw on her?

-----------
"Where darkness shines like dazzling light"   â€”William Ashbless

You must make future hiring decisions based on logic rather than emotion. There are some people who will perform well in response to kindness, but others who will simply take advantage. : (

He fell for one of those "plz give me job sir" people. I used to get them when I was hiring writers. One guy, I actually gave him a chance and asked him to clean up his writing after a while because it was getting sloppy. He cursed me out, so I fired him. He saw me posting again for writers and begged me to take him back. lol Would not stop emailing  me. Ugh.

davidd1008
Member

I think a lot of others have brought up some great points but just to throw in my 2 cents...

 

You're definitely setting yourself up for failure by hiring cheap. 

 

That's not to say you can't find quality work that's at a discount or better rate than you might find out in the real world, but like all things you get what you pay for.

 

There's three basic types of freelancers on Upwork (or any platform).

 

Pros who do this for a living. This is how they put food on their table. They charge the highest rates.

 

Part-timers who have some skill/experience/training who do this on the side for extra money. They're in the middle.

 

The third type... I don't know if there's a more PC way of saying this, but low-cost third world freelancers. Many of them are just "freelance farms" basically. and they're the ones with the lowest rates. 

 

Which agian, is not to say you can't find quality in all types, it's just harder to find them the lower down the ladder you go. 

 

You know what's at the bottom of the barrel, don't you? 

 

You may also be setting yourself up for failure if you're ndicating you're looking for entry level work or advertising a low budget. The top tier of freelancers and a good portion of the middle tier will pretty much ignore your job and move on, deciding it's not worth their time. 

 

Someone else said earlier that if you're hiring cheap you're hiring people who are competing based on price and not talent. I think that's a great way to look at it. Freelancers who know their stuff and can deliver high quality work will almost lways price themselves accordingly, regardless of where they live. 

 

I all somewhere around the middle tier and when I see jobs that are far below what I'd normally rate I don't even look at them, even if it sounds like a fun/interesting/challenging gig. I don't mind adjusting my rates a little if I think the job sounds like a good one, or cutting a client a little discount if there's consistent work to be had. But there's a limit. 

 

Bottom line: If you want quality work you have to be prepared to pay quality rates. 

gbalint
Member

Why would a good developer that knows he's good be in the cheap category? Only because he's in India? I saw developers from there asking and being paid with $40-$60 per hour.

 

Ah, looking for someone who doesn't know his own value? Same thing happens with the IT companies in Cluj. They're looking for that awesome senior developer who's happy to live in the office and be paid maybe 1200 euros.

 

I read some ad saying they offer the great opportunity of working full-time. Like spending 2 hours in traffic each day + 8 at work is a perk.


@Gabriel B wrote:

Why would a good developer that knows he's good be in the cheap category? Only because he's in India? I saw developers from there asking and being paid with $40-$60 per hour.

 

Ah, looking for someone who doesn't know his own value? Same thing happens with the IT companies in Cluj. They're looking for that awesome senior developer who's happy to live in the office and be paid maybe 1200 euros.

 

I read some ad saying they offer the great opportunity of working full-time. Like spending 2 hours in traffic each day + 8 at work is a perk.


ha it's the same here. "We're going to pay you an average salary and give you lots of benefits like a pool table but keep you here 60 hours a week and b* at you if you use the pool table too long." Yeah, I'll pass. And then they want you to have corporate spirit like work is your family. No boddy, work is for money and I really don't want to do it. I want to enjoy time away from my boss.

 

I can't tell you how many sit-down lectures I had for not having corporate spirit. At least with contracting even onsite they don't push that garbage as much. AS much anyway. With contracting, they just push it on you as a carrot on a stick and tell you if you don't have it then you might not get hired full time. Oh no whatever will I do? Don't do that I might never find a job again! 

Speaking as someone who recently re-entered the workforce and is closer and closer to regretting this decision; I have to say, that some employers have an insulting level of expectation even when they offer NO benefits. My fault for taking the job - but jesus - calls on the weekends/Saturday nights, about work coming up on Monday? 


NOPE 


Plus I have to commute for 1.5 hrs every day?

DOUBLE NOPE


@Lindsey G wrote:

Speaking as someone who recently re-entered the workforce and is closer and closer to regretting this decision; I have to say, that some employers have an insulting level of expectation even when they offer NO benefits. My fault for taking the job - but jesus - calls on the weekends/Saturday nights, about work coming up on Monday? 


NOPE 


Plus I have to commute for 1.5 hrs every day?

DOUBLE NOPE


lol yeah. After my last job, a recruiter tried to poach me for one of Ebay's offices here. It's a 1 hour drive at least maybe more. I told her that I'd be driving a lot farther than the current job I had so I would need to be compensated for the longer commute. She responded with benefits. B I don't care about the pool table and the fact that it's ebay. I want money. 

Stop hiring cheap people. And especially stop hiring cheap people on hourly projects because they're just going to pad hours. Go fixed rate; set a reasonable amount of time between project award date and due date for milestones. Use funded milestones and release funds when certain parts of the project are completed to satisfaction.

It was a fixed price job but I guess it just had the opposite effect. I would actually have been much happier if he/she had just come out and said "hey. i'm working on a bunch of other things" or whatever, so I could set expectations instead of wasting time. I even told the person I assume you're doing a, b, and c too but he/she always tried to make it seem like he/she was working and had my full attention even though it was obviously untrue.