Sep 11, 2020 11:16:20 PM Edited Sep 12, 2020 12:01:42 AM by Nikola S
A bit of context, in 2017 we a company called epicalls, we are a small voip trying to find a niche. I've worked with upwork quite a lot and of course, we decided to do all our dev work and design with them.
We had some good and some bad developers, one developer that we hired was really sloppy, earlier this year after much trying we decided to let him go. We paid him in full and we moved on. We understand that you get good and bad devs and we are okay with that.
Few weeks ago, out of nowhere he email us and asked us for $5,000 on bitcoin or he would make all our code available to the public. We are not paying him. He made the code public.
Now we're in a struggle, the main value of a company is technology, and this developer has expose and killed a big chunk of the future of our company, no investor would help us if he knows our code is public, that plus the added security. A huge investment we would have to do in order to continue being a startup.
We tried to get help from upwork, basically they said that because the blackmail didn't happen in their website and we didn't open a dispute after he finished his work (before he blackmailed us), they couldn't do anything.
Here is my concern
- Anyone can take few jobs with access to private information or technology.
- He finishes the jobs and keep key data.
- Waits few months, closes his account and then blackmail all the people he worked with.
- Upwork won't do anything.
Imagine if Uber responded the same way as upwork had. Someone takes an Uber, the ride finishes, the passenger give the driver 5 stars, **Edited for Community Guidelines**, and Uber response is:
a) they are just connect people,
b) we were satisfied with their work and gave him 5 stars **Edited for Community Guidelines**
c) recommends you to stop taking to the Uber driver.
After this experience I would not recommend giving an upwork developer any project more conplex than a wordpress redesign.
Sep 11, 2020 11:41:17 PM by Preston H
Jordan:
It sounds to me like you have a serious conflict with a developer who worked on your project. Upwork provides a service that you used to find and hire that freelancer.
But Upwork was not a party to your contract with that freelancer.
Why would you think that Upwork is responsible for what that freelancer did? The freelancer is not an Upwork employee.
What is it that you think Upwork should do?
Sep 12, 2020 06:35:49 AM by Jordan G
Sep 12, 2020 06:55:28 AM by Jordan G
Sep 12, 2020 01:50:07 AM Edited Sep 12, 2020 01:57:36 AM by Petra R
Jordan G wrote:We had some good and some bad developers, one developer that we hired was really sloppy, earlier this year after much trying we decided to let him go. We paid him in full and we moved on. We understand that you get good and bad devs and we are okay with that.
Few weeks ago, out of nowhere he email us and asked us for $5,000 on bitcoin or he would make all our code available to the public. We are not paying him. He made the code public.
Jordan, you own the rights to the code as it is paid for. So all you need to do is issue a DMCA takedown notice to the webhosts of the site(s) where the code is published.
You may also want to consider emailing the freelancer's local police department (if you know where he lives) and report the blackmail / extortion, as that is a criminal offense and the police are required to investigate criminal offenses. Even if the don't prosecute, it will probably make him think twice.
Preston H wrote:Why would you think that Upwork is responsible for what that freelancer did? The freelancer is not an Upwork employee.
What is it that you think Upwork should do?
He never said that he thought Upwork was responsible for what the freelancer did.
What I would personally expect Upwork should do (after being shown proof) would (OBVIOUSLY) be to lean hard on the freelancer to remove the code, and then (once that's done) to permanently suspend the freelancer. That's a no-brainer. Obviously that only works if the freelancer still has an Upwork account.
Sep 12, 2020 06:30:57 AM by Jordan G
Sep 12, 2020 04:38:52 AM by Andrei T
Are you 100% sure it was the freelancer who did this? Asking for money is one thing, but "in bitcoin" sounds like a scam. You say the code really was made public, so the person had access to it - but you should check maybe it's someone else from the team impersonating the freelancer.
Sep 12, 2020 07:58:14 AM by Luce N
How about GitHub, can they do anything to make whoever is making your code public stop doing so?
Sep 12, 2020 08:03:04 AM by Jordan G
Sep 12, 2020 12:42:55 PM by Amanda L
This is a nightmare. This is the last thing any of us want a client to report. Upwork may not have liability but in terms of service recovery it would behoove us all if they do something to help address this.
Sep 12, 2020 02:04:33 PM Edited Sep 12, 2020 02:06:02 PM by Valeria K
Hi Jordan,
I'm sorry this has happened to you. This is definitely not the experience we would like clients to have after hiring freelancers on Upwork. I see that your case has been escalated to our Executive Escalations team, they have thoroughly reviewed the case and have been assisting you via the support ticket #29642098. Unfortunately, since these activities and interactions happened outside of Upwork platform and long after the contract was closed, there isn't a lot our team can do at this point.
While I can't share details about the freelancer's account, I can confirm they are no longer allowed to use the platform. That said, you can follow Subpoena Protocol if you wish to obtain the freelancer's information in order to take legal action against them. Upwork will cooperate with any legal requests that are properly submitted to our Legal Department.
Thank you.
Sep 12, 2020 05:33:17 PM by Jordan G
Sep 12, 2020 07:39:18 PM by Amanda L
Sep 12, 2020 08:22:14 PM by Jordan G
Sep 12, 2020 08:40:25 PM by Amanda L
Jordan G wrote:
We did have an nda... How is that even relevant? He is blackmailing us... Whether there was a contract is irrelevant when he is doing something illegal, please see screenshots.
If a Uber driver robs you, would you blame the victim because he didn't have a contract for not being robbed?
Would you say that Uber had nothing to do because he only connected a driver with you?
Upwork and zip recruiter have completely different business model.
My point was that if you have an NDA then you would have the contact information for this freelancer and could serve them with a cease and desist without having to go through Upwork to get the information, that is all. It was not to fault you.
You did not have a contract with Upwork; the money you paid was to a person you hired as a contractor, using Upwork's interface. But regardless, how does a refund from Upwork help you at all? First of all, if Upwork refunds and debits it from the freelancer, then you no longer own the IP on the code. Second of all, if your goal is to get your code taken down and enforce your IP/copyright, then a refund from Upwork doesn't get you any closer to that goal.
The best action you can take is to work with Upwork's legal team to get the freelancer's information so you can pursue this through proper legal channels.
Sep 12, 2020 08:58:34 PM by Jordan G
Sep 12, 2020 08:40:45 PM Edited Sep 12, 2020 08:56:31 PM by Petra R
The freelancer is already banned from Upwork.
Upwork also has no way to recover any funds from the freelancer.
Jordan G wrote:
I would love to find a way to report him with the local police, but upwork won't release any info without a lawyer.
If you had a NDA with the freelancer, that would have his address on it, no?
Jordan G wrote:
As starters opening a dispute resolution... That would be a basic step, if the dispute is right issue a refund
Not only are you long out of the dispute deadline, the freelancer is no longer on the platform, so there is no way to make them participate in any dispute resolution, let alone pay you back. There is even the question whether the freelancer is legally required to pay you back, that is something a court would have to decide.
Upwork is bound by its terms of service exactly as the client and the freelancer are.
Jordan G wrote:
If a Uber driver robs you,
That whole Uber thing doesn't work.
If an Uber driver robs you while you are being transported by them, Uber would likely "do something."
If a former Uber driver does something to you months after they drove you on behalf of Uber, it's nothing to do with Uber.
Sep 12, 2020 08:44:45 PM by Jordan G
Sep 12, 2020 08:59:35 PM Edited Sep 12, 2020 09:02:13 PM by Petra R
Jordan wrote:
No, blackmail is illegal. An nda is not needed.
Of course blackmail is illegal. Illegal stuff is a matter for the police. You say you had an NDA. Any NDA worth being called that has to have both parties' addresses on it.
So can give the address of the freelancer to the police.
Jordan wrote:
I owe the ip of the code.
Ideed you do. Hence you can issue take-down notices if it appears somewhere it shouldn't.
Sep 12, 2020 09:46:02 PM by Jordan G
Sep 12, 2020 11:10:45 PM by Petra R
If you got a refund (which realistically isn't going to happen) you'd no longer own the code anyway.
Get the details of the freelancer from the NDA you say you have with the freelancer, and/or get a subpoena.
Issue take-down notices whereever the code appears. If he doesn't get paid and gets banned from github, he'll give up in time.
To be clear: Nobody is blaming you and everyone hates that freelancer for what he is doing.
But you need to sort this out through the correct channels.