Ok here's an example of a work diary:
Since I don't know the exact time I started let's guess, going by the activity bar that it was 11:38 am. I finished exactly 90 minutes later at 1:08pm (pressed stop on the time tracker when it said 1 hr 30 minutes).
What Upwork could do is take the minute that I started the time tracker and add that in at the beginning as an annotation (maybe under the time in small text). Then do the same at the end. They can subtract the first time from the last time and see that the client should be billed for 1:30. Instead the client in this case was billed for 1:40 which is completely incorrect, as we had agreed on 1.5 hours of work. As previously stated, this system just makes me look greedy, stupid or incompetent. Its pot luck trying to bill a client for exactly an hour and a half.
The largest gap I see in the screenshots is 17 minutes - do you mean this instead of 27? This change would not effect how a client reviews my work using the screenshots. It would just give a far more accurate summary of how much time was actually logged. By all means round up to the nearest 10 mins at the end of the work week, but not for every instance of time tracked.
@Jan H wrote:
What Upwork could do is take the minute that I started the time tracker and add that in at the beginning as an annotation (maybe under the time in small text). Then do the same at the end. They can subtract the first time from the last time and see that the client should be billed for 1:30. Instead the client in this case was billed for 1:40 which is completely incorrect, as we had agreed on 1.5 hours of work. As previously stated, this system just makes me look greedy, stupid or incompetent. Its pot luck trying to bill a client for exactly an hour and a half.
Hi Jan,
Please note that you can select and delete the first screenshot from your example, removing it from the Work Diary and not billing your client for it. Also, since the activity is really low, in case a clients initiates a dispute this segment wouldn't qualify for Hourly Payment Protection.
To avoid any confusion since clients are also strongly advised to review the Work Diary regularly, you can follow the steps many experienced freelancers working on Hourly jobs use and review and remove segments like the one you highlighted at the end of each session or the end of the day/week.
@Jan H wrote:Ok here's an example of a work diary:
Since I don't know the exact time I started let's guess, going by the activity bar that it was 11:38 am. I finished exactly 90 minutes later at 1:08pm (pressed stop on the time tracker when it said 1 hr 30 minutes).
What Upwork could do is take the minute that I started the time tracker and add that in at the beginning as an annotation (maybe under the time in small text). Then do the same at the end. They can subtract the first time from the last time and see that the client should be billed for 1:30. Instead the client in this case was billed for 1:40 which is completely incorrect, as we had agreed on 1.5 hours of work. As previously stated, this system just makes me look greedy, stupid or incompetent. Its pot luck trying to bill a client for exactly an hour and a half.
The largest gap I see in the screenshots is 17 minutes - do you mean this instead of 27? This change would not effect how a client reviews my work using the screenshots. It would just give a far more accurate summary of how much time was actually logged. By all means round up to the nearest 10 mins at the end of the work week, but not for every instance of time tracked.
No, I didn't mean 17, because I wasn't referring to a gap between two screenshots. I was referring to the gap between GOOD screenshots, if there was a stray Candy Crush shot in the middle segment. Say, good screenshot at 8:01, Candy Crush at 8:13, good screenshot at 8:29. You have a 28 minute period during which the only screenshot showing is Candy Crush. In the current system, the client (or Upwork, if payment protection is implicated) can neatly deduct that 10-minute segment. For the third time, how would you suggest that they use the screenshots in your scenario, where bill was simply from, say, 7:55-8:35 with no blocking and no additional screenshots?
@Isabelle Anne A wrote:
I understand the point Jan is making.
Please someone correct me if I'm wrong - but the Elance time tracker also took random screenshots but yet still only billed per minute. Isn't that right? Is it so hard to make a tracker that does that?
It's not like Upwork's time tracker takes screenshots every 10 minutes anyway - sometimes it's completely random in the middle of a 10-minute segment and sometimes 15+ minutes can pass before another screenshot is taken.
This is why I'll repeat: the only reason I feel Upwork keeps the 10-minute tracker is because it gets more money from clients that way. Not all freelancers diligently go through their work diaries and delete low-activity segments, and Upwork profits from that if the client doesn't dispute those segments.
That's why I'm really looking for an explanation from a developer or someone who can explain why a minute tracker is difficult to implement.
Apart from the "cheating clients" aspect of this, it's unecessary time wasted for us to have to constantly monitor our work diaries for this. And I, like Pandora, ocassionally end up undercharging clients because of this.
Hi Isabelle,
Please someone correct me if I'm wrong - but the Elance time tracker also took random screenshots but yet still only billed per minute. Isn't that right? Is it so hard to make a tracker that does that?
Elance tracker took screenshots randomly within 12 minutes segments and used the same method of billing time as used on Upwork.
This is why I'll repeat: the only reason I feel Upwork keeps the 10-minute tracker is because it gets more money from clients that way. Not all freelancers diligently go through their work diaries and delete low-activity segments, and Upwork profits from that if the client doesn't dispute those segments.
Apart from the "cheating clients" aspect of this, it's unecessary time wasted for us to have to constantly monitor our work diaries for this. And I, like Pandora, ocassionally end up undercharging clients because of this.
We've disagreed with statements like these before on discussion threads you participated in, please see one of our replies copied below.
That's why I'm really looking for an explanation from a developer or someone who can explain why a minute tracker is difficult to implement.
Here's one of ouir earlier comments on the same topic:
Some of you have proposed tracking billable time by the minute while still allowing for randomized 10-minute screenshots. We’ve explored this possibility, but as of now have no plans to make this change. Here’s why: in order for your time to be “billable”, there needs to be a random screenshot and user activity.
If you were tracking time by the minute, and later decided to remove a screenshot because you were idle, forgot to turn off the Team App, etc. you would be removing that time as a 10-minute increment. So, even if you were only idle for 30 seconds, you’d be missing out on the 9:30 that you were working. This can quickly add up to you “charging less” time for your work. We don’t want that.
We understand the confusion this can cause. However, we have seen that the Team App accurately measures activity and time spent working. We’ll continue to evaluate this and other suggestions, so keep them coming.
Thanks!
Hi Isabelle Anne,
A screenshot captures freelancer's screen and shows what they are working on each segment, the work activity levels are reflecting. This allows clients to check if the activity levels are referring to an activity related to their job, and prevent them from being billed for an unrelated activity. Without screenshots clients wouldn't have this insight, just based on the activity levels.
The same issue discussed here would also occur with a five-minute segment and I would presume freelancers wouldn't be on board if screenshots were taken each minute, which would also create other difficulties and inconvenience with this process.
Isabelle Anne, Ines and others,
We'll be sharing feedback you provided on this thread with the team. However, we can't promise any changes to the way time-tracking, billing, reporting and Protection work on Hourly contracts in the near future.
Thanks.
@Isabelle Anne A wrote:
@Tiffany S wrote:
I have absolutely no idea why Upwork has chosen to do that, but any and all time tracker issues can be avoided if a freelancer simply chooses to take responsibility for his own contracts and not rely on the Upwork safety net.
Not sure which time tracker issues you're talking about here. I believe the main issue of this thread is that the time tracker usually overbills clients who don't monitor work diaries closely and whose freelancers don't have integrity and who can't be bothered with the hassle of deleting low-activity screenshots or starting their tracker at the right time to match the 10-minute mark.
Wow ladies, what the heck. 
This shouldn't have anything to do with responsibility, integrity, or even hassles. The actual point of this whole thread is that a 10-minute block should be a 10-minute block. Period.
On one hand, we have Upwork's tracker as is now - a 10-minute block is only the one that starts and ends on a round number.
On the other hand, we could have a tracker where a 10-minute block is just 10 minutes, whenever it started. Even if it started on a round number (as is now), even if it started on a random number.
I don't even see a point in looking for any more reasons to do this - for those who like it the way it is, NOTHING would change. For those of us who work differently, on different types of contracts and different dynamics, the change would be a big improvement.
That's really all there is to it!?
@Tiffany S wrote:Ines, my only point was that the only reason for all the big brother screenshot monitoring and all that (which you rightly distinguished from the "real world") is necessary is that Upwork is putting its own money on the line to step in and rescue freelancers when contracts go bad.
In the real world scenario, we don't have the monitoring OR the protection.
Gotcha.
I wasn't really trying to talk bad about screenshots and activity monitor, just wanted to make it clear that the two situations are completely different.
I don't mind the screenshots that much anymore, and fully understand the need for them. Not just because of Upwork's money on the line, but people's money as well. You've seen a lot more complaints about hourly scams on the forums than I did, and I've seen a fair share.
So - yay screenshots! Nay 00-10-20! 
@John K wrote:Ines, I'm going to attempt a rationalization for the tracker being restricted to even multiples of 10 minutes after the hour. It would take a lot of development effort to modify it, and Upwork's development resources are already stretched fixing new features that don't work reliably without altering a key feature that is at least reliable. And given Upwork's record of making changes that don't work properly, do you trust it to alter the time tracker and get it right the first time? I don't, so I'd rather live with it, warts & all, then have a non-functional version and lose money because of it.
I don't want to be overly negative, but Upwork also has a past history of taking freelancer requests and implementing something else that nobody wants. For instance, it used to be, you could hover over the number of applicants in the job feed, and see a list of all freelancers who'd applied, with names, rating, etc (can't recall the exact data shown, but it was very useful). But some freelancers in the community were unhappy that when you clicked on the job, and looked at the applicants from there, the number of applicants was different that what was listed in the job feed. So Upwork replaced the running total of applicants with a range, like 20-50, AND INCIDENTALLY eliminated the capability of viewing the actual applicants, even though no one asked for that. And when that happened, scores of freelancers, me included probably, pleaded to have this feature restored, but our pleas fell on deaf ears.
Sigh... I'm still trying to be optimistic though - as long as the idea isn't discarded ("we won't/can't implement this"), there's hope.
I don't know much about programming, but I have to think that the modification of the tracker is not more complicated and challenging than everything else that was built on the platform. There are so many features here that look a lot more challenging to develop than a tracker that triggers a random screenshot within X+10 minutes.
(Especially considering it's already developed - just needs a modification)
In any case... no, I don't honestly trust Upwork's devs to get anything right the first time. But since they're constantly adding new features, it's clear that whoever is in charge still wants to improve the platform and make it better.
And as long as that's the case, I think we should all give our input as to what could be useful and helpful, rather than staying quiet and letting Upwork think of new features on their own (which then end up being something no one asked for - but a lot of people don't ask for anything, anyhow, or they just let ideas die because "this might be too complicated for Upwork so let's just never talk about this again").
I don't know. If it's too complicated, they'll say "sorry, we won't/can't implement this". But it's for them to decide, not me. I don't want to "not" give ideas just because *I* think it may be too complicated. I think it's up to us to suggest, and up to them to review.
