Client Needs Input

[resultsassoc]

I rarely hire on Upwork, doing most of my hiring on another board that is far more transparent and flexiblde. I'm also a provider, and my clients' needs tend to be broad. Prior to a health-related hiatus from consulting, I delivered large complex projects for clients requiring a wide variety of skills sourced globally and often containing fifteen or twenty solo providers with esoteric skill sets and impressive credentials. A one-stop shop for complex business issues.

I'm trying to recreate that within Upwork, but it's simply not possible. Every provider has to have an individual contract with the end client (how many clients want that as the only option?), or the lead provider has to hire subcontractors. I do that now, but won't hire Upwork freelancers for jobs with Upwork clients because the same revenue has to be assessed fees twice, or someone providing services eats a lot of 20% charges. Or, client costs go up. So, non-Upwork freelancers get the money. I fail to see how that serves anyone's interests. Rather reminds me of cutting the baby in two.

I have an agency account, but Upwork does not enable intra-agency communication, and teams are all taxonomy-centric rather than client-centric. The Agency itself cannot get involved until a member submits a proposal, so synergy comes late to the table.

Is there a need among other clients for access to multiple skills, blended rates (impossible under UW) and coordinated delivery? If so, clients should ask for it.

Thoughts?

[dijatul]

I am thinking also ..... 

[petra_r]

Of course Upwork facilitates intra-team communication, just set up a message room.

OF COURSE the agency can "get involved" and submit proposals and so on on behalf of the agency freelancers and run the contracts, that is the idea, in fact.

Blended rates etc is trickier but as it is the agency which is paid, not the freelancer, you can control that too.

You simply do not understand how Upwork agencies work, and I would strongly suggest you find out first.

You also need to remember that if you do subcontract, you need the clients permission on fixed rate contracts. You are not supposed to subcontract (to Upwork freelancers or any others) on contracts you were hired for on an hourly contract from an Upwork client.

[resultsassoc]

Petra, you may  be correct. I have not explored all potential ways to use the Agency, but I was told by an excellent UW CS agent that there is no intrateam communication, and that "teams" are taxonomy-based, with all the web developers in one team, the web designers in another, etc. I have not yet found a way to set up a message room unless there is an active proposal, which rather defeats crafting a proposal as a team.

Once a proposal has been submitted, I can jump into the work room, negotiate with the prospective client, do work, withdraw proposals or accept offers. That is reactive. I can respond to a lead as an agency member (not as an agency, it appears) and, once a workroom exists, probably invite other team members into the room. This is a piece of cake for a fixed-price UW contract, because neither UW nor the client cares whether I task Petra or Wendy with doing the writing. However, despite being agency members, they remain freelancers, so when I pay Petra her $1.97 share of the $5M contract, I either have to hire her or pay her outside of Upwork. The latter would violate ToS, the former makes the agency's existence irrelevant.

Blended rates are not, I suspect, trcky. I suspect they're de facto illegal. The agency member to whom an hourly contract has been awarded can use time-tracker (not while I'm still breathing) or log manual hours. If Petra logs everyone else's hours, I don't want to think about the consequences.

I'm continuing to read up on agency details. I want to find out how agencies work.

As for the client's permission to subcontract, this is not my first rodeo. I've been doing that for more than fifteen years for online and offline clients in every case. It's both simple courtesy and a professional standard. I've developed a workaround on a contract with one client: I hire Petra to desgn the anti-gravity device, which is then my property, and I give it to the client for free. Of course, that's free work, but only on UW. In the RWOU (Real World Outside Upwork) I've been providing value-add services at no charge to most clients for nearly thirty years.

I need to set up a project with a client and see how it works. Nothing hourly, of coourse, because only one freelancer appears able to charge to a contract. Fixed price.

I'm trying to bring the RWOU private-enterprise standard model to UW and make it work within ToS. As for "of course," I refer you to the duet between Buttercup and the Captain, Act II, HMS Pinafore.

[petra_r]

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@Bill H wrote:

I'm trying to bring the RWOU private-enterprise standard model to UW and make it work within ToS. As for "of course," I refer you to the duet between Buttercup and the Captain, Act II, HMS Pinafore.

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 It would be an idea to work out how Upwork works rather than trying to make them change their business model to fit in with how you want it to work.

And again, you can create a message room for your agency members, if you can't figure out how, refer to the response on one of your other "I don't know what I'm doing" posts where you were even supplied with a pretty picture showing you what to click on and where...

[resultsassoc]

Thanks, Petra.

The issues are resolved (I think) within the UW framework. The Agency itself (me) will only respond to fixed-priced ,broad leads, and the trusted talent I'm inviting will be able to use the paid privileges to respond to hourly leads.

I saw the pretty pictrue, gave Avery a Kudo and accepted her response as a reslution.

[wendy_writes · Accepted solution]

Bill, is it possible to work out all the details and minutia on Slack and only then transfer it as a package to UW?  The Slack delineated roles, rates, and expectations would have to be very well defined but that needs to happen in any case.

[resultsassoc]

It''s worked out within the UW stuture. It will still be an odd duck - not skill specific - and I'll use it only to respond to fixed-price multi-skill posts. Members (those I intentionally invite) will be free to use the agency for hourly work at will.