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Re: Complaint: Upwork blocks communication beween clients and potential freelancers

prestonhunter
Community Guru
Preston H Member Since: Nov 24, 2014
11 of 16

LOL. Ivan, I will take your word for it that the niche industry you work in uses a longer interview process than is used elsewhere.

 

But I think pretty much everybody writing in this thread is in agreement that Upwork does not "block communications" between clients and prospective hirees before clients hire somebody.

 

The original poster was probably getting confused by the fact that contractors can't talk to clients before even applying to a job. But that limitation is a good thing. And easily overcome. Just send a quick proposal, and you can ask a client as many questions as you want about their job.

 

As stated many times elsewhere:

If you see a job posted which lacks sufficient details for you to even be will no to apply to it, then you are not the right contractor for that job. Plenty of other contractors are available who understand that type of job better than you do. Sometimes you see a job which you feel like you don't understand and would need more details about. But I understand the client's needs based on what he wrote and I can confidently submit a proposal. Not every job is intended for every contractor.

petra_r
Community Guru
Petra R Member Since: Aug 3, 2011
12 of 16

@Preston H wrote:

As stated many times elsewhere:

If you see a job posted which lacks sufficient details for you to even be will no to apply to it, then you are not the right contractor for that job. Plenty of other contractors are available who understand that type of job better than you do. Sometimes you see a job which you feel like you don't understand and would need more details about. But I understand the client's needs based on what he wrote and I can confidently submit a proposal. Not every job is intended for every contractor.


 So when you see a 3 word job description, possibly in a foreign language, you "understand what the client needs" better than mere mortals because.....?

 

When a client posts a job that consists of no details, no scope, and based on the description you can't possibly know which price to bid then you still big accurately and others are clearly too stupid to mindread?

 

Clearly not every job is meant for every freelancer, and nobody said they are.


But if clients write gibberish job descriptions and freelancers don't have enough information to submit a meaningful proposal then that is not, as you keep suggesting, because the freelancers are incompetents with the IQ of a can of coca cola, but because the client has written a nonsensical job description.

 

Of course people can submit a proposal and accurately describe what they will be willing to do for the quoted price, but I am at a complete loss why you'd rather people waste their connects on nonsense job descriptions (which you, with your clairvoyant qualities and superior intellect and insight somehow understand in detail) than that clients were encouraged to help themselves find the right candidates by posting a meaningful job description in the first place!

 

When I see a job description that says just "Oil" and I decline to apply to it, it's not because I'm the idiot...

prestonhunter
Community Guru
Preston H Member Since: Nov 24, 2014
13 of 16

Petra, you are referring to what I would regard as extreme cases, and you are certainly correct that these job postings are just no good.

 

But I think such job postings are best ignored entirely. If a client posts gibberish, I am definitely not inspired to contact the client and ask for clarification, whether doing so would cost two connects or not.

 

I have seen many complaints, usually from programmers and web developers, about job postings which were perfectly reasonable but were brief. Some contractors expect an unreasonable amount of detail on the part of clients who have little more than an idea and need a bit of hand-holding to get started. And, yes, I am definitely more likely the contractor these clients need. Moreso than a developer who needs a more detailed project description in order to get started.

petra_r
Community Guru
Petra R Member Since: Aug 3, 2011
14 of 16

Preston,

 

The thing is:

 

Clients need educating that they are helping THEMSELVES by writing very detailed job descriptions.

 

The more detailed the job description the better the quality of the applications and applicants, and the less spam applications happen.

 

I do understad that maybe sometimes freelancers expect more than they strictly need, but in my experience the majority of job postings do not contain the info needed to submit an accurate quote without much luck.

 

It's no big deal with hourly contracts, as the expected scope can change and nobody loses out, but on fixed rate contracts it's very easy to under- or over-quote by a massive margin and really lose out.

 

I have also seen you use that same attitude when it was clear from the poster's comments that there genuinly were not enough details in a client's job posting to quote accurately.

 

Of COURSE freelancers can always withdraw their proposals upon clarification, but it's just such a waste of everyone's time, including the client's.

 

If clients simply post an accurate and comprehensive job posting then they won't have to answer the same obvious question (the asnwer to which should have been IN THE JOB POSTING!) over and over again. Freelancers won't waste their time and Connects applying to jobs they can't or would not want to do.

 

Less time wasted all round, less frustration on all sides, better job postings, more meaningful proposals, better chances of the right client and freelancer teams producing a great outcome.

 

In other words there is NOTHING that speaks against accurate and complete job postings as they create the basis for good contracts and that can NEVER be a bad thing.

c02dd01c
Active Member
David F Member Since: Jul 8, 2019
15 of 16

Same here!!! I wanted to hire a freelancer and the stupid new account completely removed ANY communication places and areas so I could not even ask a flipping question. You REALLY think I would hire someone without communication first??

 

I cannot use Upwork until they fix, replace, bring back or get with the program. That is crazy. I think I'll make a little noise about this on SM. So not cool.

bstojadinovic
Moderator
Bojan S Moderator Member Since: Mar 9, 2018
16 of 16

Hi David,

 

You can communicate with the Freelancer before the offer is sent. The simplest way would be to Invite a Freelancers to Submit a Proposal to your Job.

 

Thank you.

~ Bojan
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