Contractor exceeded hours by almost 300%-- what do I do?

[3c85b1a6]

I am not really sure how to handle this situation. I submitted a contract with a limitation of 10 hours, but the freelancer tells me he has worked 27 hours, which is almost tripling my estimated cost. I would like him to get paid for his work, but I'm just not sure how to proceed. I also don't want my rating to go down, as this is my first Upwork job that I've hired for. Any suggestions?

[3c85b1a6]

I must also add that he said that Upwork's time tracking was "not working" and all these hours are manually submitted.

[tta192]

If you do intend to pay for the overtime you can do that either via a bonus payment or by increasing the time limit on the contract (so he can log more than 10 hours). Make sure not to do both.

[prestonhunter]

Upwork's time tracking works just fine.

Clients are not obligated to allow manual time.

If a freelancer uses manual time, then a client is allowed to dispute that time, and Upwork will remove the time... the client won't need to pay for it.

Ultimately, if a project has a freelancer who uses too much time, or turns in inadequate work, or is too expensive, etc....

These are PROJECT MANAGER issues, and not freelancer issues.

[jr-translation]

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Mario C wrote:

I must also add that he said that Upwork's time tracking was "not working" and all these hours are manually submitted.

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Did you see any of the work yet? It is a very lame excuse that the tracking does not work and sounds just very fishy. Either the freelancer:
a) is not very experienced and does not know how to calculate the time needed for a task beforehand,

b) needed time to learn something new, which you do not have to pay for unless you agreed on it, or

c) farmed it out and tries to get more money out of you.

I think, I would offer the freelancer a fixed rate contract covering the amount you initially agreed on. Once the freelancer handed over the work and you agree with it (take your time to really check it), you can release the payment and pay a bonus.

[richard_wein]

Hi Mario. When you say there was a limitation of 10 hours,  are you referring to an understanding you had with the freelancer or to the limit set within Upwork's contract system? The latter is a _weekly_ limit (based on weeks from Monday to Sunday), not a limit on the whole job. So he may be within the technical limit if the work was spread over multiple weeks. You may dispute the time,  but only up to the Friday after the completion of each week,  so it may already be too late to dispute some or all of the time.  Since the hours were submitted manually (not using the tracker) you will automatically win a dispute over any hours that are still disputable. (And it may be possible to dispute even after the Friday deadline. I'm not sure.)

Apart from the technical question of whether you can dispute, there is the question of whether you think you are entitled to a refund. Bear in mind that hourly contracts are intended to be flexible, and used when the time needed is uncertain.  Did the freelancer commit himself to doing the work within 10 hours?  Was 10 hours an estimate? Does 27 hours seem excessive? If you're not sure whether 27 hours was reasonable, then I suggest you discuss it with the freelancer. If you think it was unreasonable,  try asking the freelancer for a refund. 

[prestonhunter]

Talk to your project manager about your expectations. If your PM is unwilling to manage your project in a way that meets your expectations, then you need a new PM.

[richard_wein]

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UPreston H wrote:

Talk to your project manager about your expectations. If your PM is unwilling to manage your project in a way that meets your expectations, then you need a new PM.

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Preston,  why do you insist on speaking as if you take it for granted that clients employ project managers,  when you must be well aware that the vast majority of upwork clients do not. I've never yet worked with an upwork client through a project manager. And very few forum posters (clients or freelancers)  other than you have mentioned project managers. Do you usually work through a project manager yourself?

Your way of talking about project managers seems like a disingenuous way of implying that the client ought to have employed a project manager.  If that's your meaning,  why not say it directly?

[prestonhunter]

Richard, you ask a very valid question.

I am aware that most of these clients did NOT in fact employ an independent project manager.

Depending on the scope of a project... it may simply be unrealistic to expect success WITHOUT a project manager.

For smaller projects, I do understand that a client is unlikely to hire an independent project manager.

But then... the client SHOULD perform the duties of a project manager himself.

OTHERWISE, the client is letting the project manager be the lead developer. And only about 20% of lead devs are capable of effectively being their own project manager.

So if clients leave that duty to lead dev, there is an 80% failure rate.

I have said these things many times, but I don't always feel like saying all of this in every thread where the primary problem is lack of project management.

To summarize the concept very simply as it pertains to this THREAD:

If "Freelancer A" is using three times as many hours as expected.... the problem is not that "Freelancer A" is clicking the wrong button or something. "Freelancer A" takes as long as he takes. The client can not change that. The client needs to accept this freelancer's abilities and cost, or work with other freelancers.

A real project manager understands this, and a real project manager knows how to fire people and only work with the people on the team who provide the best value.

Upwork is never going to be able to help clients who contact them and complain about something like this by sending a note to the freelancer saying "from now on, work three times faster. Thank you."

These are project management issues. Whether the client is working as PM herself, or hiring someone to be PM.

[prestonhunter]

re: "Do you usually work through a project manager yourself?"

I would not say "usually," but I would say "often."

Especially with larger projects I do through a Upwork, I often work with project managers. There are many projects I work on where I hardly ever talk to the paying client, because the I work directly with a PM.

As a freelancer who has worked on projects with and without project managers, I know how valuable they can be for keeping a project on schedule and on budget.

In case you are wondering, I do not work as a an independent project maanger myself. I am capable of serving as PM on projects for which I am the lead dev. So that does indeed happen. But when I am asked to work as pure PM, I always decline. There are many freelancers who specialize in working as PM, and they are the ones who should be hired for such work.

[petra_r]

Preston likes to throw the "Project Manager" in the pot, along with the dozens of freelancers that clients should hire for the same job. 

So clients with a budget or $ 100 can hire a project manager for $ 20 and 8 freelancers for $ 10 each and then the budget is spent and the client has $ 10 worth of work...

It was crystal clear that Mario doesn't have (and shouldn't need) a PM.