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27e52cb1
Active Member
Oli S Member Since: Jun 5, 2018
11 of 23

This is a good rundown. However having gone through shady ropes before, and given the clarity of the poor performance and poor practice this time around, it's been a little harder to just let money fly out the window willy-nilly. 

27e52cb1
Active Member
Oli S Member Since: Jun 5, 2018
12 of 23

Hiya - thanks for this - totally get it. In the past i've paid 4x the rate using your approach, freelancers with good feedback, etc. The experience has been as follows:

Person 1 - gets booted off upwork for a fake account

Person 2 - same as above - using a fake name and image

Person 3 - disappears, lies about having started work, etc.

 

This chap seemed to be from an area with lower labour prices, but the feedback was quite incredible. I didnt have much reason to doubt their performance or trustworthiness. 

 

Again, I appreciate the comments, it just seems to be a tough thing to crack. Talent-scouts that appear in the inbox when I pay for the premium listing are thereafter non-responsive. It's all-together not a great look.

prestonhunter
Community Guru
Preston H Member Since: Nov 24, 2014
13 of 23

Oli:

Everything you have done in the past which gets bad freelancers suspended or kicked off the platform or marks them with accurate, poor feedback is a benefit to the Upwork community as a whole

 

I appreciate your efforts to so, and I hope nothing I say dissuades you or others from doing so.

 

I have hired over 70 freelancers, so I have some experience as a client, but I work mostly as a freelancer.

 

By damaging Upwork's reputation, bad freelancers actually do more harm to other freelancers than they do to clients. So when clients try to make Upwork better, it is something I'm grateful for.

bobafett999
Community Guru
Prashant P Member Since: Sep 29, 2015
14 of 23

Well Oli:  You do seem to have a knack for finding scums on the platform.  Is it becasue of your desire to find lowest cost freelancer?  If I take the $amount and hours you were billed it comes out to be less that $15/hr.

 

That is low.

 

I work in the similar space so I know what a reasonable rate might be.  It would be around $25-$50/hr.  If you need specialized unique custom coding it would be even higher.  I have lost jobs to people whose hourly rates were $80-$100/hr (and their profile does not even mention Weebly experience).

 

Anyone colud claim to be expert in drage and drop builders like Wix, Weebly, or squarespace.  Thus all designers could claim to be expert on these platforms.  Squarespace people in general have higher rate.  Reason? Wix and Weebly offer free website building.  Makes it easy to play around with the platform.  Squarespace does not offer that  (I wish I had started on Squarespace, but I didn't want to pay money).  As a result people who want to have a squarespace experience has to cough up money to build their own site.

 

Of course if you pay a good programmer, they don't need to know a particular platform.  As long as they can get in to tweak the code or insert their own codes they can do the magic.  Next time,  ask the freelancer if they have their own website and is it based on Squarespace (portfolio will not tell you anything.  Scammers can put a thumbnail and a link to whatever site they want to show).

27e52cb1
Active Member
Oli S Member Since: Jun 5, 2018
15 of 23

Hi Prashant! Thanks for the comment. All my other hires have been in the pricing bracket second from the top (I noted this prior). This one was an exception, I figured it was a simple task, and the reviews seemed quite glowing, and his hourly estimate was inflated by a factor of about 4, thus bringing my expected payment to him in line with a freelancer charging $30-$40 per hour. I was ok with this since he seemed quick off the mark. Now I realise the negative ones are actually hidden (as is mine - the details of it aren’t available - there’s a sea of empty review closures which I assume have also been cloaked). When I worked in design as a student, irrespective of the significantly low rate I was charging, I completed work on time, communicated, and certainly didn’t run away from an ill-completed project where I’d ruined a clients live site.

 

Thanks for the thorough reply, I do appreciate it.

bobafett999
Community Guru
Prashant P Member Since: Sep 29, 2015
16 of 23

@Oli S wrote:

When I worked in design as a student, irrespective of the significantly low rate I was charging, I completed work on time, communicated, and certainly didn’t run away from an ill-completed project where I’d ruined a clients live site.

 

Thanks for the thorough reply, I do appreciate it.


 Well Oli, different people have different value system and work ethics.

27e52cb1
Active Member
Oli S Member Since: Jun 5, 2018
17 of 23

True - hence me pushing for a simple refund when distrust was generated through shonky work that missed the accepted brief by a country mile, and left my public facing site broken for days while a promised immediate fix wasnt enacted and other questions ignored. 

tta192
Community Guru
Andrei T Member Since: Aug 30, 2016
18 of 23

If the initial estimate was 4h, you should have asked for clarifications after ~6 or 8h of work. Even if you were ok with paying 30h, a checkpoint at 8 or 10h would have allowed you to at least make sure they were still heading in the right direction. 

 

27e52cb1
Active Member
Oli S Member Since: Jun 5, 2018
19 of 23

Initial estimate of his was 25-30 hours. It was me who knows that in practice it's about a 4 hour job, but i accepted the blowout quote for various reasons all listed earlier - what I didnt accept was ending up still being debited when i returned from a short trip, and the total deducted being 25% over even his top-end estimate, while the brief was missed by such an obvious amount, and my live-site left broken for a period of days. There's a strange and curious amount of protectionism going on in here, where if you bought an object that fell apart, you'd be well-placed to seek a refund.

astro_writer
Ace Contributor
Sapna D Member Since: Feb 1, 2018
20 of 23
Hi Oli,

The reason people keep emphasizing that you check progress along the way is that, in Upwork hourly contracts, you are paying for a freelancer's time. So if you dispute, Upwork ONLY judges the quality of the time spent on your project (via activity levels, memos, etc.). It will NOT make a decision on the quality of the work completed.

In the Work Diary for this project, do you see signs of poor quality work TIME, such as consistent low activity levels, incomplete memos, and/or irrelevant screenshots? If so, you will win the dispute. Hope that helps!
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