Disputing hours for writer who stole content

ace4b5a4 · ‎03-19-2018

We have a writer who we've paid for the past few weeks to write content for us. On wrapping up the project, we discovered that this person has been copying virtually all of the submitted material from Wikipedia, word for word. What is the process to dispute this and pursue a refund for the hours billed?

I see that the dispute process apparently requires us to file any disputes within 5 days after a billing period ends, and only covers hours and not quality of work. But in this case, the "quality of work" issue is more of a "freelancer delivered illegal, stolen material" issue. Surely Upwork will do something if the freelancer doesn't return these funds?

g_vasilevski · ‎03-19-2018

Hi Jon,

I`m sorry to hear about the bad experience you had.
The 5 days rule is correct, you can only file a dispute for the hours from last week.
Regarding your second concern, you will be filing dispute for the hours the freelancer have tracked and here you can also submit evidence that the content was stolen/copied.

If you have any additional questions feel free to post them here, if you have questions for more private details please send me a PM. Thank you!

~ Goran

petra_r · ‎03-20-2018

@Goran V wrote:

Regarding your second concern, you will be filing dispute for the hours the freelancer have tracked and here the quality and the work they have done will be reviewed as well.

Since when?

Does this no longer apply?

My problem is with the quality of work, not the hours billed. What do I do?

Filing a dispute through Upwork’s process must be based on the hours a freelancer has billed you for. That means cannot file a dispute with us because you are not satisfied with the quality of the freelancer’s work. In those cases, you and your freelancer should discuss the matter and work together to resolve any issues. You can also request a refund from your freelancer. Still can’t resolve the issue and within 30 days of payment? Please contact customer support to learn about our mediation assistance.

However, the freelancer has violated Upwork terms of service by submitting plagiarised work, so this is something Upwork can take action on, up to suspending the freelancer's account.

This fact would likely come in handy in any negotiations with the freelancer to redo the work or refund voluntarily.

g_vasilevski · ‎03-20-2018

Thanks for pointing it out Petra,

Jon, I`m sorry about the confusion I meant to write that you can submit the evidence about the work that was copied/stolen. This is a violation on our TOS and our team will investigate this further.

~ Goran

colettelewis · ‎03-20-2018

@Jon V wrote:
We have a writer who we've paid for the past few weeks to write content for us. On wrapping up the project, we discovered that this person has been copying virtually all of the submitted material from Wikipedia, word for word. What is the process to dispute this and pursue a refund for the hours billed?
I see that the dispute process apparently requires us to file any disputes within 5 days after a billing period ends, and only covers hours and not quality of work. But in this case, the "quality of work" issue is more of a "freelancer delivered illegal, stolen material" issue. Surely Upwork will do something if the freelancer doesn't return these funds?

__________________________

Jon, what the freelancer has done is completely unacceptable, it gives all serious freelance writers a really bad name.

Unfortunately, you are not likely to recover all the money, but I am surprised the moderator has not suggested that you report the freelancer, with proof that he has copied, to ensure that his account is suspended. You could also check his profile to see if that has been "stolen" too.

Failing any response by Upwork, I would most certainly "out" the freelancer by name on social media.

I am absolutely sick to death of people who lie about their abilities, who steal other people's profiles and blatantly steal from Wikipedia - it also denotes an astonishing stupidity.

g_vasilevski · ‎03-20-2018

Hi Nichola,

I have already made a full report about this and escalated to the appropriate team to investigate it further, thank you!

~ Goran

wendy_writes · ‎03-20-2018

Brava @ Nichola. Jon, her comments are dead-on correct. Theft / plagiarism is NEVER acceptable.

bobafett999 · ‎03-21-2018

Well the information is incomplete. There is another thread similar to this. Both threads are berating freelancers (may be they desrve it), but we do not know how the contract was set up and for how much.

If the buyer was paying 1cent per ten words, there is no way in hell they will get original content, and by the way it is my understanding that most texts from Wikipedia are copyright free (" If you want to use Wikipedia's text materials in your own books/articles/web sites or other publications, you can generally do so, but you must comply with one of the licenses that Wikipedia's text is licensed under. Most text is CC by 0 or GNU free license") https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reusing_Wikipedia_content

When reelancers complain about buyers cheating them, they are more explicit in describing the contracts. Most of the time when buyers complain they just given the end result - that the translation was done using Google translate or text was copied from here and there.

colettelewis · ‎03-21-2018

Prashant,

Every piece of writing is copyrighted. However, if someone allows someone else to copy their material verbatim, that is entirely up to them. As to Wikipedia, you have not read that article thoroughly - for example: "Re-use of text under the GNU Free Documentation License"

The price, is immaterial. If somebody copies someone else's work and passes it off as their own, they are acting fraudulently.

bobafett999 · ‎03-21-2018

@Nichola L wrote:
Prashant,

The price, is immaterial. If somebody copies someone else's work and passes it off as their own, they are acting fraudulently.

Of course the price is IMPORTANT.

I would not expect thatfrom you if I hired you or Petra or Wendy or Tiffany. But when I am hunting for bottom of the barrel talent at $2/hr talent I will get what I pay for.

The way I understand the Wikipedia language is that you can use it, but make sure of the license associated with the material and comply. If it is CC0 you can do whatever you want to do with it and no attribution is required.

colettelewis · ‎03-21-2018

@Prashant P wrote:
@Nichola L wrote:
Prashant,

The price, is immaterial. If somebody copies someone else's work and passes it off as their own, they are acting fraudulently.
Of course the price is IMPORTANT.

I would not expect thatfrom you if I hired you or Petra or Wendy or Tiffany. But when I am hunting for bottom of the barrel talent at $2/hr talent I will get what I pay for.

The way I understand the Wikipedia language is that you can use it, but make sure of the license associated with the material and comply. If it is CC0 you can do whatever you want to do with it and no attribution is required.

________________________

You have completely missed the point. Someone passing someone else's work off as their own is fraudulent whether they are allowed to copy it or not, especially if they are being paid. If you read the Wiki article in detail, you will see there are conditions attached to copying.

A client should not expect copied work, however low he or she is looking, or however little is being paid. In fact, cheap clients often have much higher expectations than clients with some experience and who pay reasonably well.

wendy_writes · ‎03-21-2018

Prashant, first - Nichola, Tiffany, Petra and I thank you for the compliment ... but now to the crux of the matter.

- A sizable chunk of buyers have absolutely no idea of what professional rates are in any field.

- this is why I so often post the EFA link when people ask about (or quibble about) what constitutes professional writing and editing rates.

- That same sizable chunk might /might not recognize quality work if they tripped over it. Example - I would only recognize lousy coding when my website crashed.

Buyers hopefully know their line of business; it is up to the FLers to explain ours and how these skills can benefit the buyer. If the same buyer is too thick-headed to get quality costs cash > no self-respecting professional should be wasting his/her time, talent, and years of experience working with the person.

IMO the real problem lies outside of what is Upwork's purview > making sure every provider on U is a true professional and skilled in the areas they purport to be skilled in.

bobafett999 · ‎03-21-2018

Wendy I agree with you. The point I am trying to make is that the contract is an equation.

Input (money you want to spend) = Output (quality of work).

In all the posts by buyers they only mention output - "They are not happy with what they got". They fail to mention how much they spent. Then people write posts after posts berating the freelancer without fully knowing the other side of the equation.

"You get what you pay for".

On Upwork or any other freelancing sites most of the time Buyers come looking for bargains and MOST of the time they select the lowest cost provider. Shouldn't they deserve what they pay for?

Take our space as an example. I can and do write copy for a website, but I guarntee you that it is/will NOT be as good as yours. Some of the sites I visit for inspiration I just fall in love with the message on the landing page....nothing fancy, simple, short, great typography but makes me curious and click on the interior pages.

wendy_writes · ‎03-21-2018

"On Upwork or any other freelancing sites most of the time Buyers come looking for bargains and MOST of the time they select the lowest cost provider. Shouldn't they deserve what they pay for?"

Yep - and that's why the wonderful line: Pay peanuts > get monkeys is so popular.

And mahalo for 2 compliments now. 🙂

petra_r · ‎03-22-2018

@Prashant P wrote:
Wendy I agree with you. The point I am trying to make is that the contract is an equation.

Input (money you want to spend) = Output (quality of work).

It doesn't always work like that. It is not that black and white. I have (proof)read near flawless work from very talented people just starting out or unaware of their worth or desperate for their first contract, and recently spent a month (not kidding) fixing page after page after page after page after page after page after page of wordsalad of a decent priced freelancer's "work".

Clearly there is no argument that "in general" you get what you pay for and yes, I admit I also wondered what the OP paid, but fact remains that plagiarised content is not acceptable at any price, period.

It's not even a "quality" question. Submitting plagiarised work is fraud.

versailles · ‎03-22-2018

@Prashant P wrote:
They fail to mention how much they spent.

Absent this information, we should avoid to speculate and stay on topic. Which is plagiarism. You cannot just assume that the inappropriate output is the result of a low price, even if a low price may be the reason - but under no circumstances a justification - for the plagiarism.

-----------
"Where darkness shines like dazzling light" —William Ashbless

bobafett999 · ‎03-22-2018

@Rene K wrote:
@Prashant P wrote:
They fail to mention how much they spent.

. Which is plagiarism.

Well how do you know that it is the truth?

The OP and many other buyers are looking for ways to stiff the freelancers. In this case he may have found the topic 'plagiarism' on another active thread some buyer found the topic of using 'Google Translate' (which may be true or may be invented). I believe absent of the whole story one should not condem the freelancer or give hints to the buyers about how they can get away without paying nothing and still get the stuff. I believe that is a disserive to fellow freelancers. As it is the decks - with all the clauses and subclauses - are stacked against them. Why teach ropes to buyers about how to use those ropes?

I have seen many people in real life kicking the vending machines even after they get the stuff with a hope that stuck coins in the chute may fall and they would be richer.

Again, if the content is CC0 one can do anything they want with it.

And are you telling me you have never used codes from github or codepen or stackoverflow?

colettelewis · ‎03-22-2018

Prashant,

Have you any evidence to support your statement that the "OP was looking for ways to stiff the freelancer"? This really is going too far.

It is certainly true that there are scummy clients, just as there are scummy freelancers, but in this case, the OP has simply stated that a freelancer has copied verbatim from the internet and passed it off as their own work. This is fraud, whichever way you look at it.

bobafett999 · ‎03-22-2018

Nichola: I wrote,The OP and many other buyers are looking for ways to stiff the freelancers. In this case he may have found the topic 'plagiarism' on another active thread some buyer found the topic of using 'Google Translate' (which may be true or may be invented). "

versailles · ‎03-23-2018

Prashant, you really have an issue.

Given your mistrust of clients and your general negativity, I really wonder if freelancing is really your call in life.

-----------
"Where darkness shines like dazzling light" —William Ashbless

bobafett999 · ‎03-23-2018

@Rene K wrote:
Prashant, you really have an issue.

Given your mistrust of clients and your general negativity, I really wonder if freelancing is really your call in life.

Not really. I am a realist. I don't live in your world, "Where darkness shines like dazzling light". After reading threads after threads of buyers cheating freelancers just because a buyer yells a generic highly subjective violation I don't believe everything thing they say.

You should try it...."A real shinning light will illuminate your world and you will be able to see"

As a pubic service this thread may enlighter you about some of the buyer side behavior (no thanks is necessary. I often do this as a public serve).

https://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/arbitration-after-getting-contract-end-with-review-and-r...

wendy_writes · ‎03-23-2018

The 8 month interval (pub.12/17) in the thread above seems to fly in the face of what the mods commenting on this thread deem possible or acceptable. Can a moderator please clarify -

tlsanders · ‎03-23-2018

On the contrary, Prashant, your constant alarmism and defeatism does a terrible disservice to freelancers. You do more to persuade freelancers that they have to accept abuse if they want to work here than anyone else I can think of in these forums. Your insistence on painting the vast majority of clients with the same brush deters freelancers from carefully vetting clients and making good decisions about who to work with, becaues voices like yours convince them that's just the way it is.

I have always struggled to understand why you want to defeat your fellow freelancers, but I'm dumbfounded to hear it referred to as a public service.

bobafett999 · ‎03-23-2018

Tiffany: I am not trying to disuade fellow freelancers. I am just reading through the threads and threads of abuse by buyers. On the other hand, you always (it seems to me) have acted as a cheerleader for Upwork. Many freelancers are on Upwork cool-aid where they believe everything a buyer says. In my entire discussion I have maintained that just believing buyer's comment without knowing the full story is wrong. I don't seems to recall reading any of your posts where you have questioned the existing policies.

(It was a publicj service to Rene - I just wanted to shine some sunlight in his world. I am also surprised that you could not get that)

I went back and checked. I saw zero post from you on this thread

and while you are at that thread read the replies from Melissa and Carolay. I can assure you that my posts had no effects on their opinions.

richard_wein · ‎03-26-2018

Prashant

In my entire discussion I have maintained that just believing buyer's comment without knowing the full story is wrong.

But equally it's unreasonable to automatically disbelieve the client's comment.

reinierb · ‎03-26-2018

Prashant, Rene does not need anybody shining any sort of light into his world. Rene and his world is a shining light many would do well to follow, and you proclaiming to be able to light up his world amounts to a joke in made in bad taste.

ETA- I disagree with Rene about you having an issue, though. You actually have many issues.

versailles · ‎03-26-2018

I just want to say that it's now sunny in Paris. Spring has finally come. May Prashant have some of the bright that he sent my way and may his pessimism fade away just a little bit 😀.

Also if any client read this thread, please note that Prashant's opinions are in no way representative of the opinion of the rest of freelancers who work on this platform.

-----------
"Where darkness shines like dazzling light" —William Ashbless

bobafett999 · ‎03-26-2018

@Rene K wrote:
I just want to say that it's now sunny in Paris. Spring has finally come. May Prashant have some of the bright that he sent my way and may his pessimism fade away just a little bit 😀.

Can't do that/ Sent all my sunshine to you, you returned the favor by sending darkness here in Texas. It has been cloudy for the past few days.

charles_kozierok · ‎03-24-2018

"You do more to persuade freelancers that they have to accept abuse if they want to work here than anyone else I can think of in these forums."

Dang, I really need to pick up my game. 😉

In all seriousness, I think most clients are reasonable people. And my guess is that there's a far higher percentage of legitimate clients here than legitimate freelancers.

Personally, I approach all new clients with what I call "guarded optimism." I like to think I give everyone a fair chance, but I have a hair trigger for red flags, and I have learned what types of clients are more and less likely to be problematic.

Prashant: You should know that forums like these are self-selecting and not representative of the general population.

shaundavin13 · ‎03-26-2018

It is generally considered bad practice to judge the truth value of a statement based on it's tone. While I understand how you might see Prashant's views as "defeatist" or somewhat pessimistic, I do not believe he is in any way generalizing that all clients are a certain way. I'm sure, as he has many hours in upwork, he has had his fair share of both good and bad clients, according to what the average client quality is on upwork.

What Prashant is doing, I think, is directing attention to one particular aspect of the situation that needs to be addressed. He in no way indicates that other aspects of the situation, like freelancers cheating their clients or lying about their qualifications, are somehow unimportant or nonexistent. Sometimes we need to solve problems one at a time, and it's okay to focus on one particular issue, even when it's not the whole issue.

On an unrelated sidenote, I'm relatively new in Upwork and have read all your replies on this thread with great interest. As I understand it, there are clients from hell and freelancers from hell. Based on your (Wendy, Petra, Tiffany, all other community gurus who's names I have not memorized) experience, on AVERAGE, which party is more likely to act irresponsibily or unethically?

Would love to hear your expert thoughts on this.

tlsanders · ‎03-26-2018

Davin, my response to Prashant wasn't just based on that comment, but on the fact that he makes a point of going from thread to thread telling newish freelancers that most clients are dishonest, it is impossible to earn decent rates here, Upwork always takes the client's side, etc.

That's a self-fulfilling prophecy to a degree (and, in a way that relates to your other question). If you go in assuming that you can't command decent rates, that you have to compromise if you want to work, that any dispute will go against you, etc. you make different choices than you would if you understood that the quality of clients you work with and the fees you command are within your control.

The person with the bleak outlook who takes bad jobs from bad clients because he "has no choice," is of course going to have a bad experience...which will ratify his ideas and encourage him to take more bad jobs (and so on).

I think that there are both dishonest clients and dishonest freelancers. I wouldn't say that one is more likely than the other. However, there are some common threads, and often they revolve around low payment. I have personally never encountered either a dishonest client or a dishonest freelancer through Upwork. To a degree, that's probably luck, but I also attribute it in part to the fact that I charge a lot and pay reasonable rates. The clients who want to milk as much as possible out of as little money as possible are often dishonest. Clients who target inexperienced freelancers with outlandish promises are virtually always dishonest. I am not as familiar with the common characteristics of dishonest freelancers, but I have seen many clients come to the forums complaining about being cheated, and most (though not all) have been paying very low rates (meaning that the dishonesty is coming from a cheap, low-end freelancer).

bobafett999 · ‎03-26-2018

@Tiffany S wrote:

I think that there are both dishonest clients and dishonest freelancers. I wouldn't say that one is more likely than the other. However, there are some common threads, and often they revolve around low payment. I have personally never encountered either a dishonest client or a dishonest freelancer through Upwork. To a degree, that's probably luck, but I also attribute it in part to the fact that I charge a lot and pay reasonable rates. The clients who want to milk as much as possible out of as little money as possible are often dishonest. Clients who target inexperienced freelancers with outlandish promises are virtually always dishonest. I am not as familiar with the common characteristics of dishonest freelancers, but I have seen many clients come to the forums complaining about being cheated, and most (though not all) have been paying very low rates (meaning that the dishonesty is coming from a cheap, low-end freelancer).

Bingo. Like Wendy said, "They throw peanuts expecting elephants and shout they are cheated when they get monkeys".

shaundavin13 · ‎03-27-2018

@Tiffany

Oh okay, I'm sorry I didn't know. That is certainly interesting.

You mentioned that clients target inexperienced freelancers with outlandish promises. Could you specify what promises these are? Is the client promising other larger projects, but is asking freelancers to get paid less at first?

It makes a lot of sense when you say clients who get cheated are often those who pay really low rates. Perhaps the freelancer feels like they're being cheated by the client, and decides to somehow behave unprofessionally. I think you and @Prashant are in agreement here when you both say some clients pay peanuts and cry when they get monkeys.

@Steven

Sorry haha as I mentioned before, I have not memorized all the Guru's names 🙂 Hmm you may be right, those who go to upwork are probably seeking lower rates, freelancers are notoriously cheap (compared to agencies, software houses, etc)

@Petra

Hi Petra! Wow really? I was a bit surprised because when I was browsing the job openings, there were so many clients asking for a complicated multi user custom site (non wordpress) and offering something like $2000 for it. I know it doesn't seem too low, but when you consider that those sites take months to create and is most likely done by multi person teams, given the revisions the client will probably want, isn't that really cheap?

I have seen people wanting to replicate a site by posting a link, telling the freelancer to make a site "just like this". By looking at the site however you can see that eventhough in principle the concept is simple, executing it and controlling for all contingencies is a whole nother level. This is a similar case: **Edited for Community Guidelines**. Good wordpress sites where the developer simply uses a theme and customizes it a little can range from 400-600 bucks, and he's asking for a custom site with custom programming, server side setup, both frontend and backend custom functionality and design, for one grand.

Maybe it's because, as you said, you vet your clients really carefully, so you rarely get bad clients?

@Jess C @Prashant

Actually it would be interesting to see the relationship between job price, or job rate, and client/freelancer ratings. Frequency of disputes per price category, disputes grouped by work category and price category, frequency of rehiring, and as Prashant said, by location. Precisely because no one's experience is universal, hard data is a much more objective indicator than any of our singluar opinions.

bobafett999 · ‎03-27-2018

@Davin S wrote:

@Petra
Hi Petra! Wow really? I was a bit surprised because when I was browsing the job openings, there were so many clients asking for a complicated multi user custom site (non wordpress) and offering something like $2000 for it. I know it doesn't seem too low, but when you consider that those sites take months to create and is most likely done by multi person teams, given the revisions the client will probably want, isn't that really cheap?

I have seen people wanting to replicate a site by posting a link, telling the freelancer to make a site "just like this". By looking at the site however you can see that eventhough in principle the concept is simple, executing it and controlling for all contingencies is a whole nother level. This is a similar case: **Edited for Community Guidelines**. Good wordpress sites where the developer simply uses a theme and customizes it a little can range from 400-600 bucks, and he's asking for a custom site with custom programming, server side setup, both frontend and backend custom functionality and design, for one grand.

I believe I uderstand exactly what you are talking about. Remember many buyers come here looking for bargain basement prices. Buyers have unrealistic expectations or have no clue what is invloved or are trying to pay as little as possible. However, Davin there are many freelancers who would jump at that hoping either they would be able to pursuade buyers in increasing their budget, scam them or they themselves have no clue what is involved.

Buyers have also posted jobs like making sites with a functionality of Air BN&B or Uber or even like Upwork for a price of $1,000-$5,000.

Recently there was a buyer who was complaining that bids that were coming were 2-3 times more than his stated budget. He apparently had priced it somewhere and decided to chop that number by a factor of 3.

I believe if you do decide to bid, bid what you think will take you to make that thing happen. I don't do your type of heavy duty or medium coding , but I am fully aware of stuff that can go wrong. Such contracts often end up in disasters. And also remember Upwork is very buyer centric. In case of a conflict you will most likely end up holding short end of the stick. Buyers have ultimate (invisible to you) stick called private feedback. That could effectively hurt your marketability.

@Jess C @Prashant
Actually it would be interesting to see the relationship between job price, or job rate, and client/freelancer ratings. Frequency of disputes per price category, disputes grouped by work category and price category, frequency of rehiring, and as Prashant said, by location. Precisely because no one's experience is universal, hard data is a much more objective indicator than any of our singluar opinions.

Yes that really would be interesting, but Upwork will not do that. I guess "US only Freelancers" may be their attempt to address the issue some what.

tlsanders · ‎03-29-2018

@Davin S wrote:
@Tiffany
You mentioned that clients target inexperienced freelancers with outlandish promises. Could you specify what promises these are? Is the client promising other larger projects, but is asking freelancers to get paid less at first?

Yes, that's one of them. Free test work that will lead to "steady" work or a high paying project. Do this one cheap and then we'll pay more. Or just a crazy high offer for very little work. For instance, you'll see posts from time to time where someone says they're looking for someone to re-ship packages, and it looks like a couple of hours a week of work for which they offer $1000/month or something like that. Sometimes freelancers get so excited by those big dollar signs that they don't think the situation through. The same happens with the common check scam, where the "client" claims to have ongoing work at $20 or $25/hour--sometimes even more--but requires the freelancer to purchase supplies and offers to mail a check to cover the costs. A lot of freelancers end up in debt and even lose their bank accounts over that one.

@It makes a lot of sense when you say clients who get cheated are often those who pay really low rates. Perhaps the freelancer feels like they're being cheated by the client, and decides to somehow behave unprofessionally. I think you and @Prashant are in agreement here when you both say some clients pay peanuts and cry when they get monkeys.

We do. Where we disagree is that Prashant believes the norm is for clients who don't care about anything but price to come to Upwork for bargain basement prices. I know from my experience and that of many other freelancers here that there are plenty of good clients on Upwork, and that they often make decisions based on factors other than price.

firescue17 · ‎03-26-2018

@Davin S wrote:
It is generally considered bad practice to judge the truth value of a statement based on it's tone.

Word! (I'm as guilty of this as the next person). If my client, my kid, or the individual who cut me off in line at the grocery store is rude, it's obvious they're a lying cretin who is purposefully out to get *me* and ruin my othwise beautiful and productive day.

@Davin S wrote:
... on AVERAGE, which party is more likely to act irresponsibily or unethically?

(I'm not on the mentioned MVP list 😃 however ...)

In my experience, None of the Above. Most people are simply trying to run a business and make a dollar.

Some people, clients and freelancers both, are more badder at it than others, which may be why they're here on Upwork attempting to work as, or hire, a freelancer in the first place lol.

Disclaimer: the primary focus on my business is not in writing or graphic design. Those two industries appear to me to have a higher than average incident rate. Even with intelligent, harworking contractors involved.

I've read and viewed many creative works, which in my opinion, were terrible. That doesn't mean there weren't a lot of people who did their very best work on it day after day for months or years. Perhaps it's because those fields are highly subjective? /shrug. I dunno.

petra_r · ‎03-26-2018

@Davin S wrote:
. Based on your (Wendy, Petra, Tiffany, all other community gurus who's names I have not memorized) experience, on AVERAGE, which party is more likely to act irresponsibily or unethically?

I have seen more bad freelancer behavior (from incompetence to downright fraud) than client behaviour.

My **personal** experience after 200 (or whatever) contracts has been great.

I had one client out of all of them who was very difficult to work with and we did not get on at all well, but that was mainly a personality clash and my fault because I had ignored my gut feeling before accepting the contract.

I had another who was abrupt and unfriendly, but paid well and instantly and left great feedback etc, but I would not work with him again.

All the rest were between fine and really great.

BUT: I vet my clients very carefully, I don't accept just any contract.

reinierb · ‎03-26-2018

I have only had two less-than-great clients; one was on Upwork, and the other was on another site. All my other clients are off-site, and even though I don't have or use any sort of escrow protection when I work with these clients, I have never not been paid on time, and in full.

Im not sure what this proves, if anything, but if does prove anything, I'd say it proves that most, if not all clients are honest, upstanding people who value the relationships they have with their freelancers, and wouldn't dream of cheating a contractor out of a fair day's wage for a fair day's work.

bobafett999 · ‎03-26-2018

I am sure, Upwork has the data at which level getting monkeys and ripping off clients is more common. As well as data on geographic location.

jcullinan · ‎03-26-2018

@Prashant P wrote:
I am sure, Upwork has the data at which level getting monkeys and ripping off clients is more common. As well as data on geographic location.

Please just give up on this metaphor. It's not "proving" anything and it's tiresome. Your experience is not universal.