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Fraud and Scam

Active Member
Mads L Member Since: Oct 14, 2015
11 of 25

Hi Preston Guru !


Thanks for you reply !

I dont find your reply helpfull and you answers to my comments relevant, I actuely find them pretty arrogant !


I think we know all procedures since we have beeen member for years..., and we now how to stop a contract.


I am not sure about what you are trying to do for helping us with,  acording to your reply ..?


To end a contract, and report abuse to your guys, we offcourse know and we do so ,when these things apears.. , this you can hopefully see in our historie..!


But if we in general can't trust your system and need to make hourly extra controls of hours etc, and spend hours on checking identity of potentiel new contractors,  the idea of your platform is gone.


About live support ; In your settings, I couldent find out how to customize the SH frequency - I was trying to reach support to ask them about how we could change timeslot of screenshots, higher interval - like every 3 min..  - was that wrong ??? - and by the way "live support" is that live when there is 25 in front off you ? for me "LIVE" is live, and something where you get quick respond... and not waioting for hours..



Community Guru
Scott E Member Since: Jul 26, 2015
12 of 25

Pay more.


This is just an assumption, but I'm guessing that you're not paying enough, and therefore, you're not attracting the right kind of talent. Sure, you may have paid 400K through ODesk/Upwork, but if that's for 100K hours, then that's probably the issue.


People often have trouble living on low rates, so they look for ways to garner the system, take on more work than they can handle, get themselves in a hole etc etc. Yes, certain areas of the world are cheaper to live in than other areas of the world, but just because some dude can live in a shack, with his goats, in the middle of nowhere for $X a day, doesn't mean a university educated guy or gal can live in a city, with a computer, and a reliable internet connection, with the appropriate software and subscriptions and training and the like, for the same.


You'll find a lot of the major cities, even in developing countries, have property prices that exceed that of some of the smaller towns and cities of the US, and other such 'western countries'. But I digress.  


Sure, whether you're paying $1 an hour or $100 an hours... you shouldn't be scammed and people shouldn't claim for work they haven't done... or fabricate hours they haven't worked. However, such issues usually becomes less frequent the more you pay.  


If you are paying your freelancers a decent wage, then I apologise for making assumptions. 

"Welcome, humans. I'm ready for you!"
- Box, Logan's Run (1976)
Community Guru
Preston H Member Since: Nov 24, 2014
13 of 25

I think Scott's observations are factually accurate, although they suggest an ideological perspective that I don't entirely agree with.


Let me turn things around a bit... If a client is consistently achieving poor results with their pay levels, then their practices are not producing optimal results for them. It doesn't really matter what the cost of living is in Country X. What matters is your bottom line


I can't speak to the original poster's situation, because I don't know details.


But in many cases, there is one client paying around $5.00/hour, and another client paying between $50 to $90 per hour... And the client paying the HIGHER amount has lower costs for achieving the same results.


So the truly thrifty business owner, the one whose motivation is profit and the bottom line, is actually the one who is paying more per hour, because he has found there is a big difference in productivity between the lower and higher paid contractors.


THIS DOESN'T HOLD TRUE in every situation. It depends on the type of job you're hiring for. But it is something to keep in mind.

Active Member
Mads L Member Since: Oct 14, 2015
14 of 25

Hi Scott, thanks for your reply --  we pay average 22 usd per hour, including East Europe and Asia..., and off course i have heard " if you pay peanuts you get monkeys", but with my 16 years of experience with more than 500 employees around the Globe, (incl. 50 on Odesk) - this theory dont works in practice..


To pay the guys more is not egal to get better quality, BUT the hole thing is not about quality vs price its quality+price vs management + trust…

Community Guru
Scott E Member Since: Jul 26, 2015
15 of 25

Sure, price doesn't automatically equate to quality, I completely agree! $22 is by no means a slave wage so that's why I added my disclaimer at the bottom.


I had visions of somebody sat there scratching their head wondering why their $1 an hour providers weren't all that good! I apologise for doubting you. 



"Welcome, humans. I'm ready for you!"
- Box, Logan's Run (1976)
Vladimir G Moderator Member Since: Oct 31, 2014
16 of 25

Hi Mads,


I'm sorry to hear about your experience. I see our Support team reached out to you on a few occasions and asked you to provide details about the freelancer you mentioned in your chat conversation with our agent, so please go ahead and reply on the open ticket so we can investigate the case.


Furthermore, please share the job details so we can look your claims regarding the misuse of the Team App and Work Diary. I don't see a dispute on any of your jobs.


2. No, screenshots are taken at 10-minute intervals and time in between is also kept in check, so freelancers are not able to log in more hours that the number they have tracked, unless they add more time manually. 


3. Freelancers get paid on Hourly jobs only after you have reviewed and approved the time they logged in. If there wasn't any activity, the screenshot will show up as blank, and that time will not be billed.


4. Please share the relevant details with Support about the freelancer/s and job/s you suspect are not tracking their time properly, so we can check.


5. Again, please report the freelancers you suspect, but note that not agreeing to a video call is a matter of preference and doesn't necessarily mean the freelancer is lying about their identity.


Community Guru
Preston H Member Since: Nov 24, 2014
17 of 25

re: "note that not agreeing to a video call is a matter of preference and doesn't necessarily mean the freelancer is lying about their identity."


What Vlad said is true.


Likewise, choosing to NOT hire anybody who won't talk to you by phone or appear on video is also a matter of preference.


If you have had problems in the past with contractors using fake identities, then choosing to verify new hires is a logical reaction to the bad behavior of previous contractors.


If you have 20 candidates for a job, and ten of them won't let you hear their voice in a live phone call, then go ahead and only consider the ones who WILL talk to you on the phone.


This would be a ridiculous thing to do if you are hiring an artist to paint a book cover for you. But in many situations it would totally make sense, such as if you're hiring contractors to provide live phone-based customer support.

Community Guru
Preston H Member Since: Nov 24, 2014
18 of 25

re: "this you can hopefully see in our historie...
...if we in general can't trust your system...
...In your settings, I couldent find out how to customize the SH frequency..."



Some of what you wrote in your response suggests discomfort with some parts of my post.


Your wording makes it clear that you were operating under the mistaken belief that I am a Upwork representative.


In the interest of assigning blame correctly, let me point out that the "Community Guru" label under my name is assigned there automatically based on the number of posts I have posted in the Community Forum.


I am not an official representative of Upwork. I am an Upwork user, just like you are. The only official Upwork representatives you will see here in the Forum are those people whose names are followed by a stylized "Up" logo fragment in a green square. (For example: Vladimir, a Forum Moderator.)


So if you'll try to separate your displeasure toward me from your lack of enthusiasm for Upwork lately, you will end up with a more accurate distribution of ire.

Community Guru
Preston H Member Since: Nov 24, 2014
19 of 25

re: "we pay average 22 usd per hour"


$22/hour is good pay, regardless of who is paying it.


A pay rate of $22/hr. can not in and of itself explain a high proportion of fraudulent contractors.

Active Member
Mads L Member Since: Oct 14, 2015
20 of 25

Hi Preston, sorry my first post ever here -.. I was mistaking your "Guru" status with the "Moderator" Status... - so sorry for that.. (-;