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d81211b0
Community Member

Freelancer Unable to Perform Coding Required - Dispute?

This is my first time using UpWork and I posted a job to have a code developed which contained specific details and requirements.  The Freelancer I hired had a high rating (+85%), and was confident that he had the experience to complete the task.  A deadline was set for 1 week.  After 9 days, I received the code, however it did not function properly (not even close to the original request).  I discussed with the freelancer, and he did mention he was having a few issues.  The freelancer suggested I pay an additional amount, in order to create a second code, which would provide a visual representation for the original code requests.  This would benefited both of us, as I would be able to monitor "alerts" created by the first code visually, and it would assist the freelancer with the programming of the first code.  After two weeks, I received the second code, however it does not work properly either.  It has now been over a month of back and forth troubleshooting, and we are still relatively at the same place as when the original code was created.  It is obvious that the freelancer does not have the required skills to complete the job.  I think it's possible that because the jobs were at a fixed price, and the freelancer is struggling, that they may have lost the ambition/desire to either complete the task, or agree to move on from the project.  As this job was based on a fixed-price, and the funds are currently in escrow, what options do I have?   I would just like to get the code I originally requested built. 

ACCEPTED SOLUTION

re: "I have no options with this platform, other than to walk away with a $420 loss (which really bothers me!)."

 

That is the fastest option.

 

I'm not sure why you think that is your ONLY option.

 

You COULD simply ask the freelancer for a refund. You could ask for a refund in any amount you think is appropriate.

 

If the freelancer wants to end this thing, and if you offer SOME money to just end things, the freelancer might jump at the chance. Maybe offer to release HALF of the money to him?

 

ALSO:
You COULD close the contract WHILE ASKING FOR A FULL REFUND.

The freelancer might grant a full refund to you.

 

OR: If the freelancer DOES NOTHING, then you will AUTOMATICALLY receive a full refund.

 

Any amount of refund you ask for will will automatically be granted to you if the freelancer does nothing to respond.

 

You have many options.

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43 REPLIES 43
prestonhunter
Community Member

re: "As this job was based on a fixed-price, and the funds are currently in escrow, what options do I have? I would just like to get the code I originally requested built."

 

Scott:

It is always a possibility that the person you hired to do a task really can't complete every aspect of the project.

 

Your goal should be:

- obtain the work that I need

 

Your goal should not be:

- get this particular freelancer to complete the project

 

The best way to accomplish complex tasks is in a modular fashion. Break the project into 10 parts. Have each part done separately. If you have parts 1 through 5 complete, and tested, then that is an accomplishment. Maybe somebody else needs to finish it.

 

IF IT WAS ME PERSONALLY, then I would try to stop working with this particular freelancer as quickly as possible, and work with other people who are better suited to finishing the project.

 

The FASTEST way to end things with this freelancer is to release the full escrow payment now and close the contract. That is probably the most efficient thing to do.

 

Alternatively, if you want to try to get some money back, you could talk to him and negotiate a quick end to the contract with some refund in place:

 

"Jamie: Thank you again for your work on the project. We not have accomplished 85% of the goals that were originally agreed upon. I would like to let you move onto other things as quickly as possible. I suggest that I close the contract now, and ask for a refund of 15% of the money in escrow. If you will agree to that, I can release that money to you right now."

Thanks for responding Preston H.  

 

The job itself should not have been all that difficult for a capable programmer.  The Freelancer originally said he had a lot of experience creating similar projects, and that he would have no problems with this job.  

 

Note that in the in the future I will take your advice and set incremental milestones. 

 

I am still not sure what to do, but it really seems like I have no options with this platform, other than to walk away with a $420 loss (which really bothers me!).   I came to this site to try it out, and it feels like I got burned, with very little options for a fair resolution.  If I close the job and release the funds in escrow, I will be out $420 USD, with nothing of use to show for it.  A waste of time and money.  If this is how it pans out, why would I ever want to use UpWork again?

 

Thanks for your help.   

re: "I have no options with this platform, other than to walk away with a $420 loss (which really bothers me!)."

 

That is the fastest option.

 

I'm not sure why you think that is your ONLY option.

 

You COULD simply ask the freelancer for a refund. You could ask for a refund in any amount you think is appropriate.

 

If the freelancer wants to end this thing, and if you offer SOME money to just end things, the freelancer might jump at the chance. Maybe offer to release HALF of the money to him?

 

ALSO:
You COULD close the contract WHILE ASKING FOR A FULL REFUND.

The freelancer might grant a full refund to you.

 

OR: If the freelancer DOES NOTHING, then you will AUTOMATICALLY receive a full refund.

 

Any amount of refund you ask for will will automatically be granted to you if the freelancer does nothing to respond.

 

You have many options.

re: " I will be out $420 USD, with nothing of use to show for it."

 

I'm not sure what you mean by that.

 

You would have all of the work the freelancer has already done for you and delivered to you.

What I am saying is that I am paying for a service, in which I expected the obligation to be fulfilled.  The current complied code has a ton of issues, and it appears it won't be fixed by the current freelancer.  The current code in comparison is like buying a McDonald's Happy Meal......... and not getting the hamburger, fries or drink.  The code I received performs about as good as the empty paper bag that the meal is supposed to come in.    

 

So, is it easier for a new programmer to start from scratch, or to attempt to "repair" or "fix" the current code.  I guess that will need to be determined by the next programmer.  

 

 

BojanS
Community Manager
Community Manager

Hi Scott,

 

I'm sorry about your experience with this freelancer. Our team will reach out to you directly via support ticket to assist you further and advise on further steps.

 

Thank you.

~ Bojan
Upwork
yitwail
Community Member

Scott,

 

As soon as the freelancer requested additional payment, that would have been the moment to cut your losses and look for alternatives. It's no more appropriate for a developer to ask for additional money to fix his own code than it would be for a client to ask for features not included in the original scope without offering additional payment. Also, for your future reference, 85% job success is nothing special, which isn't to say that an 95% freelancer would have necessarily done better. I hope that between you & Upwork you'll get at least a partial refund from the freelancer.

__________________________________________________
"No good deed goes unpunished." -- Clare Boothe Luce
89811208
Community Member

Hi I would like some help from a very inappropiatly behaved freelancer. Please, I feel it is important because of the magnitude of his behavior that your guys be properly notified.

Hi Jay,

 

I`m sorry to hear about the bad experience you had with your freelancer. 

One of our team members will reach out to you via ticket as soon as possible where you can share more details with us. Our team will investigate it and assist you further directly on your ticket as well.
If you have any additional questions at the moment let me know, thank you.

~ Goran
Upwork
browersr
Community Member

As as go-forward recommendation. Unless your development project can be fully described to every last salient detail, don't do fixed bid. Now of course it's up to the freelancer to decide if they are going to take on the project and they of course should fully honor their commitment. However, the reality is that a good portion when faced with the fact that the project is going to be a money loser for them, will react in a way that is detrimental to the project. I am NOT offering this as an excuse but I would not assume everyone will honor their word as losses rack up. 

 

Of course you want fixed bid because it offers you budget certainty. However, as you found out, that certainty is an illusion. In the real-world of consulting companies, these fixed bid projects would take weeks or more to hammer out, legal would be heavily involved to ensure tight language, and the consultant would still pad the bid by 20%+ to cover unknowns. None of that exists here.

 

You can protect your budget with an hourly contract. Set the max weekly hours to something you are comfortable with (not the 40 hours default). Next, as with any development project type, make sure you are doing things iteratively. Take a time check say 2-hours in to get a status of what they found and where they are at. After set time checks at intervals you are comfortable with. Get the code and run it to do testing as often as is necessary. The freelancer should be consistently messaging with you to provide status, ask questions,  etc. If they don't do this, you must do so proactively. 

 

Hourly removes both parties from pretending they each fully understand something that neither has much of a sense about at the start. Consistent check-in, iteration, and max hours allowed keeps the train moving without allowing it to run away. 

One of the main reasons to use an hourly contract with development work is to maximize quality.

 

But some level of project management is also necessary to ensure quality, regardless of which contract model is used.


Preston H wrote:

One of the main reasons to use an hourly contract with development work is to maximize quality.

 

But some level of project management is also necessary to ensure quality, regardless of which contract model is used.


Agreed. That was the basis for my 3rd paragraph. 

I agree with what you are saying in general, except maybe that 20% is low, but I would also point out that it the freelancer agreed that it was only a week's worth of work.  Without knowing the task, none of us can say if it is a week's worth of work for us, but even hourly it would be hard to manage that, in my opinion, to any different result.  He had, apparently, a simple task and hired someone to blow it out.  If I were hiring someone to do it, I would do it fixed price, and let them figure the burden of getting it done by the deadline.

 

But I will say what struck me from the beginning on this and he also paid $420.00 for the job.  My math puts that at $10.50 an hour and it also struck me that the client mentioned McDonald's and as it just so happens McDee's employees make on average $9.30 an hour in the US.  I can't speak for you or Preston but I wouldn't even look at this job unless it was something I thought I could get done in a day (which likely means it is something I already have code for).  I also would not take the job unless I knew I could complete it.

 

He hired a crappy freelancer.  That's the bottom line.  I don't know how this person convinced him they could do the task but I am pretty sure they couldn't convince me.  It sucks for the client and in some ways that sucks for all of us because we get painted with that brush.  

If a client hires an under-performing freelancer, or a freelancer who simply doesn't work out for any reason, using an hourly contract, the client may close the contract at any time.

 

If the client hires a bad freelancer using a fixed-price contract, then money is tied up in escrow and the client can only get money back if the freelancer agrees to refund money.

 

The possibility of hiring a bad freelancer is an additional reason to use an hourly contract instead of a fixed-price contract.

They can close it but do they get their money back? If the freelancer used the screenshot tool and showed activity, even if it wasn’t very good activity, will they get their money back?
lysis10
Community Member


Mark F wrote:
They can close it but do they get their money back? If the freelancer used the screenshot tool and showed activity, even if it wasn’t very good activity, will they get their money back?

Not unless there is some indication of fraud. It's why I push for hourly. They can argue with me all day long but all that matters is my tracker activity and memos and all that jazz.

 

But I believe the rules are that they need at least 6 minutes (7?) of activity. But, I've seen freelancers get their money with less activity but other segments were high activity. I think it's kinda a judgement call on whoever is looking at the work diary.

florydev
Community Member

Right so reversing the perspective this client, I think, would be better with fixed. Plus it sounds like it dragged out and, although I’m fuzzy in this, can you even dispute a timesheet past the last week?
lysis10
Community Member


Mark F wrote:
Right so reversing the perspective this client, I think, would be better with fixed. Plus it sounds like it dragged out and, although I’m fuzzy in this, can you even dispute a timesheet past the last week?

I think this is a case of client going cheap and freelancer could either be outsourcing or lying about his skills. There is also a possibility that the client didn't communicate what he wanted or maybe the software just needs bug fixes. It's kinda normal to get kickbacks on bugs but at $10/hour it's doubtful that he would get a coder who would properly test the product. The only way I think you could know is if you had the code reviewed but again we're talking about the low end cheap side and this stuff is just par for the course.

 

I think the only way for a cheap coder like that to work out would be if you got him to just do something and then you fix stuff yourself.

Coder, writer, artist, etc. Hiring cheap = substandard end results.

 

We've all fixed this junk before. Buyers need to understand "You get what you pay for". 

 

The fix often costs them a lot more in the end - at the minimum these costs are in emotional turmoil and aggravation plus hard costs to fix the work and to make up for time lost,

Coder, writer, artist, etc. Hiring cheap = substandard end results.

 

We've all fixed this junk before. Buyers need to understand "You get what you pay for". 

 

Unbelievable.  You are making assumptions that I am being cheap.  I guess it depends on how much work was required for the $420 of code, correct?

 

 In my original post I stated that this code was NOT complicated, and should have been a verily simple code to implement for a COMPETENT coder.  A very detailed description of the original job posting set out all the requirements.  I provided an example code and the modifications required.  There are numerous examples of very specific and similar code to what I needed that is posted for free posted on the web.  I actually had another Freelancer contact me and offer $200 for the job, however I decided to use the current one because they had a much better job completion success rate.  

 

So no...... I don't think that I was being cheap, nor do I think I got what I paid for!!!  

You agreed that the work would take someone a week so objectively you were being cheap, it's not an assumption.  If you looked at all the software developers who replied back to your thread you wouldn't be able to hire them for an entire day to do what you wanted done at that price.  If you look at their profiles and their contributions here you will see they have justification for what they charge.  People who hire them value results, they need things  done, and they see value in hiring proven people who will deliver.  And, because they are professionals, they would have also would have told you if they couldn't do that work for you.

 

The difference from what you would have experienced would have been stark.  You want the same experience but sought to pay an 1/8 or a 1/10th of the rate these people charge.  You said McDonald's in one of your responses and as I already pointed out you are paying just above what an employee at McDonald's makes in the US.  I don't know where in the world you are so maybe that is what you think software developers make, but they don't.  Anyone who is any good almost anywhere makes more than that or they don't understand their own value.

"You agreed that the work would take someone a week so objectively you were being cheap, it's not an assumption."

 

 

Yes, this is an assumption.   I was in no hurry to have the code, and the freelancer I hired has other projects they are working on, also does their freelancing on the side (as they have a full time job).  You are assuming the freelancer was open and working on this prioject for a week.  Not the case.

lysis10
Community Member


Scott C wrote:

 

 In my original post I stated that this code was NOT complicated, and should have been a verily simple code to implement for a COMPETENT coder.

 

Yikes, sweaty. Freelancer shoulda run if you indeed said it wasn't complicated and simple to do for a competent coder. haha that's textbook "client to avoid."
d81211b0
Community Member

Correction:  What I meant to say was that I addressed this on my second post in this thread.

 

"The job itself should not have been all that difficult for a capable programmer.  The Freelancer originally said he had a lot of experience creating similar projects, and that he would have no problems with this job."  

 

 

 

 

 

florydev
Community Member

I agree completely. This is what cheap gets you. It’s not a value unless you get what you want.

re: "Right so reversing the perspective this client, I think, would be better with fixed. Plus it sounds like it dragged out and, although I’m fuzzy in this, can you even dispute a timesheet past the last week?"

 

From the perspective of a client:

- A client may close an hourly contract AT ANY TIME, and immediately stop any further billing.

- A client may close a fixed-price contract AT ANY TIME, but ONLY if she releases ALL money in escrow.

 

There is no way for a client to close a fixed-price contract and NOT release all escrow money, unless the freelancer agrees to it. If there is no agreement, the matter goes to dispute.

 

There are advantages to the client in both the fixed-price and hourly contract models. But the flexibility and immediacy when it comes to ending payment of money varies between the two contract models. The hourly is essentially "more flexible" when it comes to ending payments.


Mark F wrote:

I agree with what you are saying in general, except maybe that 20% is low, but I would also point out that it the freelancer agreed that it was only a week's worth of work.  Without knowing the task, none of us can say if it is a week's worth of work for us, but even hourly it would be hard to manage that, in my opinion, to any different result.  He had, apparently, a simple task and hired someone to blow it out.  If I were hiring someone to do it, I would do it fixed price, and let them figure the burden of getting it done by the deadline.

 

But I will say what struck me from the beginning on this and he also paid $420.00 for the job.  My math puts that at $10.50 an hour and it also struck me that the client mentioned McDonald's and as it just so happens McDee's employees make on average $9.30 an hour in the US.  I can't speak for you or Preston but I wouldn't even look at this job unless it was something I thought I could get done in a day (which likely means it is something I already have code for).  I also would not take the job unless I knew I could complete it.

 

He hired a crappy freelancer.  That's the bottom line.  I don't know how this person convinced him they could do the task but I am pretty sure they couldn't convince me.  It sucks for the client and in some ways that sucks for all of us because we get painted with that brush.  


Depends on the project if 20% is too low which is why I put a "+" there. I am not speaking of this kind of project at this low budget price but rather consulting companies. If the time has been taken to do the back and forth due diligence with appropriate legal language, then 20% is certainly reasonable. If, however, the feeling is that requirements are a bit "loose" then the padding will start to go up significantly. Really the point here was to get people who may not have the experience to understand that a fixed bid is not at the price point that an experienced freelancer thinks the job will get get done. It that's price point plus a comfortable margin for the unknown otherwise the freelancer is assuming too much of the risk. 

 

I also did not excuse the freelancer who is certainly not up to standards. I get that only from the apparent way in which he has handled this. This is why my suggestion wasn't about this contract but a suggestion for the future. As I indicated, unless everyone is sure of the requirements, a fixed bid is not going to be the better contract type under the conditions that the vast majority find themselves on Upwork (for development). At the end of the day, success typically comes when a client is saying "how can I get this done as I need at a reasonable price" and the freelancer is saying "how can I get this done with reasonable profit". If one side or both sides doesn't care about the other side of the equation, you find these kinds of outcomes. If a client thinks it's the freelancer's problem think again. Yes, it might be their problem to solve but whose problem is it also if the product isn't complete our is shoddy or is not maintainable, etc? If the freelancer thinks he can get away with bad communications and poor outcomes, they will also pay going forward due to bad reviews and lack of repeat clients. If both sides cannot "win" then both sides will lose even if the results of that loss are not immediately apparent. 

 

Incidentally, I am not criticising your response which made good points. I am more expounding on certain concepts I think inexperienced freelancers and clients don't fully understand. 

yitwail
Community Member

I don't want to muddle the discussion but paying top $$$ does not guarantee quality, because regrettably the platform has farmers who charge high rates and outsource to low cost workers. I'm aware that a farmer is supposed to notify the client about oursourcing but I doubt they all do so. On hourly contracts, the TOS prohibits outsourcing, so perhaps that's another point in favor of hiring on an hourly basis.

__________________________________________________
"No good deed goes unpunished." -- Clare Boothe Luce

I was being pretty tongue in cheek on the 20%.

 

I don't think we disagree on that much and I always open to criticism.

lysis10
Community Member


Scott B wrote:

Mark F wrote:

I agree with what you are saying in general, except maybe that 20% is low, but I would also point out that it the freelancer agreed that it was only a week's worth of work.  Without knowing the task, none of us can say if it is a week's worth of work for us, but even hourly it would be hard to manage that, in my opinion, to any different result.  He had, apparently, a simple task and hired someone to blow it out.  If I were hiring someone to do it, I would do it fixed price, and let them figure the burden of getting it done by the deadline.

 

But I will say what struck me from the beginning on this and he also paid $420.00 for the job.  My math puts that at $10.50 an hour and it also struck me that the client mentioned McDonald's and as it just so happens McDee's employees make on average $9.30 an hour in the US.  I can't speak for you or Preston but I wouldn't even look at this job unless it was something I thought I could get done in a day (which likely means it is something I already have code for).  I also would not take the job unless I knew I could complete it.

 

He hired a crappy freelancer.  That's the bottom line.  I don't know how this person convinced him they could do the task but I am pretty sure they couldn't convince me.  It sucks for the client and in some ways that sucks for all of us because we get painted with that brush.  


 Really the point here was to get people who may not have the experience to understand that a fixed bid is not at the price point that an experienced freelancer thinks the job will get get done. It that's price point plus a comfortable margin for the unknown otherwise the freelancer is assuming too much of the risk. 

 

 


This, so much of this. But mannn clients think for some reason fixed price is cheaper. So when they post hourly and I say it will take me 2 hours (for example), they get all ragey when they want to change the job to fixed price and my estimate goes up by an hour. 

 

I think freelancers perpetuate that idea though. But then, we see day in and day out scope creep rants and how they've put in extra work for freeee and blah blah.

d81211b0
Community Member

"This, so much of this. But mannn clients think for some reason fixed price is cheaper. So when they post hourly and I say it will take me 2 hours (for example), they get all ragey when they want to change the job to fixed price and my estimate goes up by an hour. 

 

I think freelancers perpetuate that idea though. But then, we see day in and day out scope creep rants and how they've put in extra work for freeee and blah blah."

 

I don't know if cheaper is the word I would use, I was comfortable with a fixed price because I knew what I would have to end up paying.  For me, that meant some security.  

 

I am not so sure why you are so fixated on clients being "Cheap"....  maybe you have had a few bad experiences.  

 

I guarantee you that I am not.  I was willing to pay a reasonable price for the code I requested.  I spent a lot of time researching what I wanted, and also researching comparable projects and prices to get code programmed.  The Freelancer told me the price that he was willing to do it for, and I agreed to pay it.

 

Ultimately what I was hoping for was a code that worked according to the job posting description.  The payment was agreed upon and the job was accepted.  I think a lot of you are losing sight of this fact.

 

Could I walk away from this with a loss......of course I could, and most likely will, however there is also a principle at stake here.      

I do not think that the original poster was being "cheap."

 

More importantly, the problems he faced with his project do not stem primarily from "cheapness."


The original poster DID face problems with his project. He DID end up unsatisfied with the work done by the freelancer he hired.

 

The answer to these problems is not simply "hiring a more expensive freelancer."

 

The problems the original poster faced relate to differences between how the original poster EXPECTED things to work, and how things on Upwork ACTUALLY work (and by extension, how things work generally with freelancing and freelance platforms).

 

The original poster is NOT ALONE in some of the assumptions he made and the expectations he had. Many clients have similar expectations.

 

I think this stems partially from Upwork marketing, and partially from the fact that clients sometimes try to apply concepts from other websites to this one.

 

For example: Speaking generally (and not accusing the original poster of having such a mindset), a new Upwork client may be accustomed to buying things on Amazon.com or at Costco, and if those things don't work properly, they can return them.


Is this a reasonable expection when using a retail site or going to a store to buy products? Quite possibly.

 

Is it a "reasonable expectation" when hiring freelancers on Upwork?

 

Hmm... It may be a "logical expectation" for somebody who has bought things on other websites. But things don't necessarily work that way on Upwork. Whether or not they SHOULD work that way is different than whether or not they DO work that way.

 

The fact that the original poster had a certain final deliverable in mind, and paid a freelancer to create that for him, and then was extremely disappointed in the end results is proof that what a client expects to have happen on Upwork is not always what actually does happen.

 

I think it WOULD BE AWESOME if a client could always create a fixed-price contract and hire a freelancer and get exactly the results that he desired. But that is never going to be a guaranteed outcome.

 

Things are more complex when hiring freelancers. Things are more complex on Upwork. Things are more complex than that when hiring for programming.

 

There ARE successful ways to use Upwork (or other resources) to hire freelancers to work on programming/development projects. But there is more to it than simply creating a fixed-price contract and expecting things to work out perfectly.

kat303
Community Member


Mark F wrote:

But I will say what struck me from the beginning on this and he also paid $420.00 for the job.  My math puts that at $10.50 an hour and it also struck me that the client mentioned McDonald's and as it just so happens McDee's employees make on average $9.30 an hour in the US.  I can't speak for you or Preston but I wouldn't even look at this job unless it was something I thought I could get done in a day (which likely means it is something I already have code for).  I also would not take the job unless I knew I could complete it.

 

--------------------

The above paragraphs isn't quite right, In fact, fast food workers in N.Y city . make more that than that. 

Date                                        New York City                       Rest of the State
Current                                 $15.00                                    $12.75
12/31/2019                           $15.00                                     $13.75
12/31/2020                           $15.00                                     $14.50
07/01/2021                           $15.00                                     $15.00.
 
The coder accepted the job. I don't know if he accepted because the earnings were way above what someone would make if they lived in an area where the cost of living is very low. Or if he was just so happy to be offered a job that he would take anything at this point and would have said and promised you whatever you wanted.
 
This is one sided. We only hear from you and it would be great to get that freelancers point of view also. What as you say, would have only take a week, went on for much longer. It's been a month now with this freelancer. It isn't worth his time anymore. . 
 
A lot of us freelancers stay away from clients who post "Very easy job should only take X hours." Even if they show what they want they have no idea how complicated or how long it will take. Or they have such high expectations on what' they want. 
 
Cheap clients get what they pay for.- cheap freelancers who really don't know what they are doing. And if this freelancer could have made more money working at McDonalds then I have to say this job paid cheap. 
d81211b0
Community Member

Update:

 

I continued to try to work with this Freelancer for the past couple weeks to try to get some usable code out of it.  They excuses kept coming from the Freelancer: 1) No internet connection, 2) Everything is working fine on "my" end-----but no proof, 3) I will be available on the weekend to answer all your concerns or questions --- but then doesn't respond when weekend rolls around.  

 

This was the last straw, so I cancelled the contract and requested a full refund prepared to take the loss...... and guess what????  The freelancer approved the refund!!   This surprised me, but nonetheless, I am grateful for him doing so.  

 

I took my money and went to a different web service, then posted the same job description, and guess what?  I was able to find SIX Freelancer's who were willing to do the same job that was posted here ($420), for prices between $100 and $200.   I ended up choosing a Freelancer in the middle ground to do the job for $150.  The job was completed in 24hrs, and I am now the proud owner of a code that previously couldn't get completed in 7 weeks....for more than twice as much money.  

 

For all those posting their "triggered" opinons and "jumping" to the conclusion that the client in this case was "being cheap" and "getting what they paid for"  ........ looks like you were all dead wrong!    

Scott:

I am grateful to you that you returned to share the rest of this story.

 

I am glad that you were able to get a refund from the freelancer.

(The freelancer is probably even more glad about this than you realize.)

 

It is good that you were able to find somebody to do the work you wanted done.


I think the moral to the story for any client out there who reads this is that not all freelancers are equal, and not all freelancers are right for the job. There can be BAD FITS, and a wise client will recognize this early on and stop working with freelancers who aren't providing them with the value they need.


Scott C wrote:

Update:

 

I continued to try to work with this Freelancer for the past couple weeks to try to get some usable code out of it.  They excuses kept coming from the Freelancer: 1) No internet connection, 2) Everything is working fine on "my" end-----but no proof, 3) I will be available on the weekend to answer all your concerns or questions --- but then doesn't respond when weekend rolls around.  

 

This was the last straw, so I cancelled the contract and requested a full refund prepared to take the loss...... and guess what????  The freelancer approved the refund!!   This surprised me, but nonetheless, I am grateful for him doing so.  

 

I took my money and went to a different web service, then posted the same job description, and guess what?  I was able to find SIX Freelancer's who were willing to do the same job that was posted here ($420), for prices between $100 and $200.   I ended up choosing a Freelancer in the middle ground to do the job for $150.  The job was completed in 24hrs, and I am now the proud owner of a code that previously couldn't get completed in 7 weeks....for more than twice as much money.  

 

For all those posting their "triggered" opinons and "jumping" to the conclusion that the client in this case was "being cheap" and "getting what they paid for"  ........ looks like you were all dead wrong!    


Scott, throughout this thread you came across as a pretty decent guy. You had a project that needing doing and the person you chose to do it has one way or another let you down.

 

All I would say to those posting jobs, please take a little bit of time to consider the proposals you receive. If the work is important to you then give adequate consideration to the freelancer you choose to employ. Think about the time they have given in their proposal to your specific task, look at their profile, their JSS and previous feedback from other clients.

 

No. it's not going to guarantee that your job is completed successfully, but it will limit the chance of such a scenario occurring. 

 

There are many, many, highly skilled and professional freelancers on the site that really do care about the jobs they are asked to undertake.

 

Just a few minutes takinfg the time to properly consider a proposal can save you weeks or months delay by hiring the wrong person in the first place.

re: "All I would say to those posting jobs, please take a little bit of time to consider the proposals you receive."

 

Or don't.

 

My time is valuable.

 

I don't want to spend my time looking through proposals.

There are often times when I simply hire the first person who applies to a job, and then I set the job to private so nobody else applies.

 

If that person isn't up to the task, then I can make the job public again and hire somebody else.

 

This saves me a lot of time.

 

I create descriptive, clear job descriptions, and I rarely end up hiring somebody who can't do the work.

 

If I end up hiring somebody who can't do the job, so what? I just close the contract and hire somebody else. As long as I use hourly contracts, it's not a big deal. If I hire one freelancer for only ten minutes, and the next for ten hours, so what? They're all getting paid their hourly rate for the amount of time that they work.

 

I sometimes hire using fixed-price contracts as well. If a freelancer isn't working out, I can end things immediately by releasing all the escrow money and closing the contract.

 

I DO NOT MIND if other clients take time to read proposals and carefully choose freelancers from a list of possible candidates.

 

I am simply pointing out that such an approach is only ONE way to hire freelancers on Upwork.

 

There are MANY, MANY types of work for which hiring quickly would be the wrong approach. The longer-term a project, the more it makes sense to take some time to hire a freelancer, or take time to hire multiple freelancers.

 

But many projects are small and targeted in scope, and taking a long time to hire somebody eliminates much of the time-saving advantage that is inherent in using Upwork.

In my own experience, the more technically-challengeing and difficult a task is, the less likely it is that an unqualified freelancer will apply to my job posts.


Preston H wrote:

re: "All I would say to those posting jobs, please take a little bit of time to consider the proposals you receive."

 

Or don't.

 

My time is valuable.

 

I don't want to spend my time looking through proposals.

There are often times when I simply hire the first person who applies to a job, and then I set the job to private so nobody else applies.

 

If that person isn't up to the task, then I can make the job public again and hire somebody else.

 

This saves me a lot of time.

 

I create descriptive, clear job descriptions, and I rarely end up hiring somebody who can't do the work.

 

If I end up hiring somebody who can't do the job, so what? I just close the contract and hire somebody else. As long as I use hourly contracts, it's not a big deal. If I hire one freelancer for only ten minutes, and the next for ten hours, so what? They're all getting paid their hourly rate for the amount of time that they work.

 

I sometimes hire using fixed-price contracts as well. If a freelancer isn't working out, I can end things immediately by releasing all the escrow money and closing the contract.

 

I DO NOT MIND if other clients take time to read proposals and carefully choose freelancers from a list of possible candidates.

 

I am simply pointing out that such an approach is only ONE way to hire freelancers on Upwork.

 

There are MANY, MANY types of work for which hiring quickly would be the wrong approach. The longer-term a project, the more it makes sense to take some time to hire a freelancer, or take time to hire multiple freelancers.

 

But many projects are small and targeted in scope, and taking a long time to hire somebody eliminates much of the time-saving advantage that is inherent in using Upwork.


Hi Preston and thank you for your response to my post.

 

I'm sure you will appreciate that my advice was not aimed at you, it was aimed at the original OP and others who may be new to the site ot have limited experience in using it.

 

It was general advice meant to help people, no more complicated than that.

 

I did not say or suggest that it was a 'catch all approach' to every job that was posted, just that adopting such an approach (generally) when hiring a freelancer may avoid, or at least minimize the chances of thing's 'going South'. 

 

Whilst I am suprised that you apparently on occassions 'hire the first person that applies' for a job you post, that is of course entirely you're call. You don't have time to read through proposals, but you do have time to subsequently cancel a contract, explain to an FL why you are cancelling, reposting the job and going through the rigmarole of hiring someone else. All because you didn't take the time to hire the right person in the first place?

 

I'm also suprised that you are seemingly perfectly happy to accept the additional costs that you have incurred through this happening. Personally, I would want, if at all possible, to hire the right person for the job first time around.

 

Again, I was only trying to contribute some advice which may help clients using the site. If we can minimize the potential for projects going wrong between an FL and a Client, I hope you agree that that would be something worthwhile for everyone.

 

Ps I said 'a little bit of time' in relation to considering FL's proposal's, not 'a long time' which is the phrase you have for some reason decided to use in your reply.

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