Freelancer added disagreed hour - Hourly Contract

[295209e8]

Hi all,

I hired a freelancer to repair some bugs in my source code. I awarded them a contract hourly basis on 17 February 2022 and the job started on 18 Feb. This is my project using UpWork platform. Prior to the award, these were what i have done:

1. I gave the files in detail explaining how the app works along with 9 tasks i.e. 3 tasks for bugs repair, 4 amendments (change password, toggle button, email noti, submission history, leaderboard), 1 new builds (3rd party app API integration). Total of around 47 pages with graphics of the actual app. 
2. She claimed that her team has done similar work (referring to 3rd party app API integration) and other tasks are normal one. Looking at her profile, I didn't see anything exactly similar (3rd party app integration) but yes she has experiences since 2009. Due to NDA she cannot disclose.
3. I provided a google sheet stating the tasks and asked her to estimate the man-hours required. She did. In the meantime, I got a few proposals from other freelancers which are almost the same as hers. The total hour agreed initially was 50 hours. 
4. She was very keen to work with me and offer up to 1 day free of work to review the code, setup etc. I set up a zoom meeting so that they can see my code etc. She understood what needed to be done etc. as she claimed her team has experience.
5. Before handing the contract, we signed an NDA and I gave her team full access to all my source code in Github. Because I was so sure she was the one that I was looking for. 
6. I was so desperate to deploy my app, so i asked her how many days to complete the task for 50 hrs manhour. She said 7-9 days. After giving full access, a few hours laters i sent the contract.
7. The job started on the next day. When I checked the timesheet that I provided, she added 2 items for a total of 22 hours (to update the API & review code) without discussing with me in the first place. I asked her for an explanation a few times and she avoided answering. I told her, i don't agree and explained my point. Since there was no reply, I assumed she agreed with my points. Otherwise I would pause or end the contract. Update the API was something that never was discussed.
8. Along the way there were new tasks which I found needed editing and I agreed to add some hours (19 hrs). For example, rename 2 buttons, she charged me 2 hours and I said nothing. I want to create a good atmosphere with their team. So it was okay for me. 
9. There were other cases when she requested additional man hours for existing tasks (amounted to 30 hours) for 3rd party API integration. So many reasons she gave, blamed a third party that provided API etc. She blamed my code is complicated & time consuming bla bla. 
10. But through working together with her team, I can conclude that this happens due to the lack of skill of her team, not as her claim at the beginning. Simple logic i explain to them regarding one of the issues, they cannot understand and keep making mistakes. 
11. Just imagine, with more than 10 years of experience, they cannot clear the database perfectly which results in users still logged in the app with no user data and cannot logged out. By right, once it's clear, it will go back to 0 and users need to sign up but this does not happen. In order to allow it to work they put some conditions. Originally the app is working fine except small bugs but not related to the database. We have been cleaned up before with no problem. Seriously, I am quite surprised. 
12. From 7-9 days, it drags until today, some tasks are completed. So i decided to divide the tasks to 2 parts which completed tasks i will pay on next week Monday, because i am behind the schedule to deploy.
13. However, she wants to add more hours around 22 hours (update API & review code) which I questioned earlier. She gave so many reasons to justify it. I am quite surprised with JSS 100%, things like this can happen. Somehow i feel like being cheated and scammed.
14. I gave them clear instructions, answered their questions, and am always available for them 24/7. I work closely with her team, just like I am the project manager. I am willing to pay but what i agreed only. To start over again with a new dev is really like a pain in the ass. I am really desperate to deploy my app.
15. She never claimed any single hour so far because all the completed tasks only completed on the last Thursday, 17 March. So I haven't made any payment yet. What I have seen she added manually the hours but within the scope that was done. The 22 hours she wants to add is not yet to be added. 
16. So I need some advice from the community on what I should do if she insists on including these 22 hours. Should i prevent her from add hours manually? I tried to discuss it, but she refused. Even for 30 hours, I negotiated but she refused to accept, and this part is clearly her team's fault.
17. In terms of getting the code before the payment release for that particular week, in order for me to verify and review their works, is it permissible for the client? There is a task that has been completed. Throughout the project, her team updated me and asked me to check but through Expo app only which had no access to code. I am afraid if I insist on rejecting her request, she will do something bad to the code like throwing some new bugs etc.
18. At this level, can I change the hourly contract to a fixed contract?

I would really appreciate it if anyone can give some input or suggestion etc. Thanks   

[prestonhunter]

re: "I would really appreciate it if anyone can give some input or suggestion etc."

You are the client.

You can do what you want.

You have all of the tools necessary at your fingertips.

If you want to fire the freelancer, you may fire the freelancer.

If you want to continue working with the freelancer, you may do so.
If you want to close an hourly contract and hire a freelancer using a fixed-price contract, you may do that.

If you want to close a fixed-price contract and hire a freelancer using an hourly contract, you may do that.

I can assure you that it is not Upwork's intention to intervene or interfere with how you manage your freelancers and contracts.

My advice to you is this:
If you don't love a freelancer's work, then fire her and assign her tasks to other members of your team.

On a project of the size and scope that you describe, you should always have multiple freelancers working on the project. You should always be monitoring their work, seeing which ones provide you with the most value, and which ones are underperforming. You should always be working on removing underperforming freelancers from your team and adding better freelancers if needed.

[295209e8]

Hi Preston,

thanks for the response. Even though all is at my fingertips, i don't want to be harsh with anyone even though they take advantage of it. I don't want to restart with other dev because it is time consuming. i can accept her team's works even though it is not reach my expectation because i still manage to correct their works. I wanna pay and get my code but not at the expenses of another extra hours. I am looking for an answer in term of protection of my code i.e. my point no. 17.

Thanks

[prestonhunter]

Are you asking about gaining possession of the source code?

The source code does not belong to the freelancer. It belongs to you.

When a client hires a freelancer using an hourly contract, all work product belongs to the client.

When I work for a client, I create a central location where all work is done, and the client has continuous access to the work, WHILE it is being worked on. There is no element of "waiting for payment to be processed."

If you suggesting that you don't have total access to all work being done by this freelancer, then you are describing a situation that is outside of my experience.

Obviously Upwork does not have access to the source code. And it is not Upwork's intention that they intervene on your behalf and tell the freelancer that she needs to release the work to you.

I don't know the details of your situation.

But I do know that it is not an acceptable situation for a client to hire a freelancer to work on a project, and then the freelancer does not release the work to the client.

In terms of Upwork rules:
The work ONLY BELONGS to the client if the client pays for it.

So if the freelancer spent 5 hours creating "Module 5," and you have not yet paid the freelancer for those hours, then that module does not belong to you.

re: "I don't want to restart with other dev because it is time consuming."

For future reference:
The size and scope of your project is significant enough that it looks like a project which should never have been attempted without a project manager and at least two different developers.

It appears that you hired only one developer. But how can you compare the work done by only one developer? You need at least two developers in order to be able to compare the quality and cost of their work.

If you hired John, Nancy, and Bertie, then your project manager would be able to evaluate their work, and make a determination that John's work costs about half of Nancy's and Bertie's work. Therefore, the project manager could assign the bulk of the work to John, in order to save money. And the project manager could assign Nancy and Bertie work only when needed, such as if quick turnaround is needed on a specific task and John was not available.

If you didn't hire an independent project manager and if you hired only one freelancer, you have no real way to determine if you are being "cheating and scammed." You have no way to detemine if you are paying too much, or too little. You have no way of knowing if the work is going faster than usual, or taking much longer than it should take.

[295209e8]

Sorry for the confusion.

the code is belong to me but the one that i meant is for the tasks in the contracts. i have not paid but let say  i want to pay, can i get the amended code to review before the payment is release for the specific week? If contract is fixed price, i can understand but for hourly contract a bit confused me.

[prestonhunter]

It is not Upwork's intention that clients pay money to freelancers before receiving work.

With an hourly contract, it is Upwork's intention that all work be provided to the client continuously, or whenever the client asks for it.

It is not Upwork's intention that a freelancer "hold the work hostage" and demand payment before receiving the work.

With a fixed-price contract, it is Upwork's intention that all of the work be provided to the client for evaluation BEFORE payment is released.

Upwork can not physically force a freelancer to comply with how Upwork intends for its system to be used.

If a freelancer demands payment before releasing work to the client, then that is what the freelancer is doing. The client will need to decide whether or not to continue working with that freelancer.

If a client releases money to a freelancer as part of a fixed-price contract, that means that the client is saying to Upwork that he has received and evaluated and approved of the work. It is not Upwork's intention to help a client get money back after releasing payment. However, there are situations in which Upwork may offer assistance.

It is always a "risk" to pay money to a freelancer, whether hourly or fixed-price. There is always the possibility that the client will never get that money back, regardless of the quality of the work that was done.

The safest way to manage freelancers is to STOP paying an underperforming freelancer, rather than paying a freelancer for unusable work, and then trying to get money back from the freelancer.

re: "If contract is fixed price, i can understand but for hourly contract a bit confused me."

With an hourly contract, you pay for the freelancer's time. It does not matter if the code "works" or "does not work." You pay for the time that a freelancer logs. A freelancer working with an hourly contract should provide continuous access to the client to all work.

A properly managed development project does not have a situation in which the project owner does not have complete and total access to project source code.

[295209e8]

Thanks for the explanation. Hour limit per week is 40 hours, and she added manually around 56 hours. So next monday, i will be charged for 40 hours or 56 hours? 

[prestonhunter]

re: "Thanks for the explanation. Hour limit per week is 40 hours, and she added manually around 56 hours. So next monday, i will be charged for 40 hours or 56 hours"

If the contract's maximum number of hours is set to 40 hours, and she manually added 56 hours during the week...

...Then you will automatically be billed for 40 hours.

But:
Because the hours were logged MANUALLY, if you want to, you may click a button to dispute the manually-logged hours, and Upwork will remove those hours from what you will be billed for.

So if the freelancer manually logged 56 hours in a max-40-hour week, you may pay for 40 hours.

Or you may pay for zero hours.
It is YOUR choice.

https://support.upwork.com/hc/en-us/articles/211062158-Dispute-an-Agency-or-Freelancer-s-Hours

But if you want to pay for zero hours, then you will need to click the button to dispute hours during the five-day review period after the work week ends.

If you have not received the source code and had a trusted indepenedent professional review it and confirm its quality... Then I recommend that you pay for zero hours.

You can always return and pay for the time later using the client-side "Send bonus" tool.

Remember, because these hours were logged manually, it is YOUR choice (the choice of the client) to pay or not pay.

But do NOT plan on paying, and then getting the money back.

Once you pay, you will probably never be able to get the money back, no matter how good or how bad the work quality was.

[yitwail]

Mohd, has the freelancer received any payment yet? If not, that's very peculiar because Upwork hourly jobs are paid weekly, for the number of hours logged per week. But if they have been paid, then you should receive the code for the work you've been charged, and if the freelancer refuses, you should suspend the contract until they provide the code.

[295209e8]

no i have not paid anything yet after a month the job started. freelancer just started added hour manually for the job that has been completed and verified by me. However this verification is only at the simulator level, not at my end which reviewing through amended code. 

In my case, we have agreed the payment based on hour but each task we already agreed for certains hours. So i would say its like fixed cost too but i think i chose the wrong type of contract.

Total agreed hours to complete this project is around 99 hours. She added 56 hours for the completed task, and i guess she will add more. should i prevent her from added more hours or pause the contract? she is at the advantage side as she got all my code. 

you may have different view as have handles a lot of works in here. This is my first project in upwork. No idea about the payment etc at early stage. that is  my fault. 

[prestonhunter]

re: "no i have not paid anything yet after a month the job started."

This is NOT how Upwork intends for its system to be used.

A freelancer should log time WHILE doing the work. A freelancer is not supposed to "save up" hours and log them later. A freelancer should log his time using the desktop time-tracker, which logs hours in real time. Or a freelancer should log time manually immediately after each work session.

Then the client should be billed for all time logged during a week.

re: "freelancer just started added hour manually"

Why is the freelancer logging time manually?
Unless there is an unusual reason why time can not be logged using the desktop time-tracker, manual time should not be used. Freelancers show respect to clients by logging time using the desktoip time-tracker. This tracks activity levels and shows screenshots of the actual work being done.

Clients are NOT required to allow freelancers to use manual time.

re: "no i have not paid anything yet after a month the job started. freelancer just started added hour manually for the job that has been completed and verified by me. However this verification is only at the simulator level, not at my end which reviewing through amended code. In my case, we have agreed the payment based on hour but each task we already agreed for certains hours. So i would say its like fixed cost too but i think i chose the wrong type of contract."

You are mixing the hourly and fixed-price contract concepts

That is never a good idea.

You should understand what hourly contracts entail.

You should understand what fixed-price contracts entail.

You should use fixed-price or hourly contracts. Or use both of them. But don't try to merge them.

It is important that you continually see progress if you are paying a freelancer money.

Never attempt to wait for a "completed project."

Today the freelancer did Tasks 10, 11 and 12.
I can see the results of their work.

The changes made as part of those tasks are visible within the application.

I can test them for myself.
My project manager has recevied, reviewed, and archived the updated source code.

re: "Total agreed hours to complete this project is around 99 hours. She added 56 hours for the completed task, and i guess she will add more. should i prevent her from added more hours or pause the contract? she is at the advantage side as she got all my code."

How do you know that Frank could not have completed this work in 9 hours? How do you know that Jasmine could not have completed this in a total of 15 hours, while working at half the hourly rate?

Spec work and quotes don't count.

What matters is actual work and actual cost.
I don't believe you have a point of comparison.

[295209e8]

to be honest i have no knowledge about this log time-tracker. only knew about it today. Seriously, i trust 100% on freelancer. 

i still can cancel the contract and re-award using fixed price contract, right. But she need to accept the new contract? 

[yitwail]

---

Mohd Haiz H wrote:

Total agreed hours to complete this project is around 99 hours. She added 56 hours for the completed task, and i guess she will add more. should i prevent her from added more hours or pause the contract? she is at the advantage side as she got all my code. 

you may have different view as have handles a lot of works in here. This is my first project in upwork. No idea about the payment etc at early stage. that is  my fault. 

---

I know you mentioned that the freelancer has 100% JSS and they claim experience since 2009, but I'm questioning how much Upwork hourly work experience they have, because as things stand, they won't get paid. Whether recorded manually or through the time tracker, hours have to be recorded during the week when the work was done, not afterword, and only up to the weekly maximum for hours, which by default is 40 hours. So if they're keeping track of hours on their own, they probably couldn't charge you for 56 hours, and since it's manual, you can simply dispute any or all of it, and they'll only be paid for the hours you don't dispute. 

[prestonhunter]

I never heard of an experienced Upwork freelancer working for a month on an hourly contract without getting paid.

That is very strange.

It is good very every client to be familiar with the desktop time-tracker.

The purpose of the desktop time-tracker is to make it impossible (or at least very unlikely) for a freelancer to "cheat" by simply making up hours.

A client named "Fred" hired a freelancer developer who used manual hours.

The freelancer just downloaded source code she found online and loaded it onto the client's server. The freelancer claimed she worked 40 hours, using manually-logged time. But in truth, she only spent about 30 minutes working on installing somebody else's source code.

The tool did not do the custom things that Fred needed. He ultimately had to scrap the work and hire somebody else.

When Fred hired another freelancer, he disabled manual time. A diligent, skilled freelancer logged time using the desktop time-tracker. The new freelancer logged 10 hours, creating a custom web application for Fred. Fred was able to check the work diary in real time and see screenshots showing the freelancer's progress. Fred was able to look at mouse/keyboard activity levels, and read memos explaining each step of the freelancer's work.

[prestonhunter]

re: "to be honest i have no knowledge about this log time-tracker. only knew about it today. Seriously, i trust 100% on freelancer. i still can cancel the contract and re-award using fixed price contract, right. But she need to accept the new contract?"

If it was me, personally, taking over management of this project, then I would pause the contract so that no hours can be logged.

I would ask the freelancer to provide all of the source code before anything else is done on the contract.

Then I would hire an independent, unconnected freelancer to review the work and provide me with an honest evaluation of what the original freelancer had provided to me.

Maybe the reviewer will tell me:
"You are getting a great deal here. You should continue to work with that freelancer, despite her quirks. You will pay more if you hire other people."

Or maybe the reviewer will tell me:
"I don't know what that freelancer is telling you. You won't be able to use this to accomplish your goals. The simulator you saw is tricking you. This is not going to work on an actual application."

[295209e8]

the company was establish since 2003 and become a member of Upwork since 2006. 

[295209e8]

i am dealing with a lady who i believe the owner of the agency and this agency is Upwork's member since 2006. Her profile showing 100% JSS and 108 hours. 

[prestonhunter]

The freelancer/agency you hired may be doing excellent work for for.

I have no way of knowing one way or another.

But when a client hires a freelancer, the client needs to provide the work to the client.

I don't understand why the freelancer has not provided you with source code.

If the work that the freelancer is doing uses a web development system which is not transportable but which is tied to a very specific service or hosting system, THAT IS FINE.

It is unusual, but it is FINE.

But it is ONLY fine if you understand what is going on.

You need to be informed if the application they are developing relies on a particular subscribed service or something along those lines.

[295209e8]

Let says, if i pay 56 hours she claimed, this money goes to Escrow account or direct to her? Then if she refused to give code, is there any chance i dispute asking for code? 

Second possible case is she claims 70 hours, but i agree and willing to pay for 56 hours only, what should i do then? Open dispute straight away? and in the same dispute, can i request the code too?

do you think she is at the advantage side to claim how many hours she think she deserve for? 

appreciate your advice. thanks

[prestonhunter]

Let says, if i pay 56 hours she claimed, this money goes to Escrow account or direct to her?"

An hourly contract has no escrow.

I hired the freelancer.

The freelancer logged 56 hours during the first week working for me.

Then, after the work week ended, I had 5 days during which I could review the work and review the work diaries.

I did nothing. I did not review anything. I did not click a button. I did not approve anything.

Then my credit card was charged for 56 hous of work. This money went directly to the freelancer. There was no escrow.

re: "Then if she refused to give code, is there any chance i dispute asking for code?"

Upwork does not charge my credit card based on me receiving code.

Upwork charges based on the hours logged by the freelancer.

The five day review period has now passed.

Upwork paid the freelancer for 56 hours of work.

I never received any source code.

That is not what Upwork cares about. Upwork looks at how many hours the freelancer logged.

I can't click a button that says "I dd not receive source code."

It is not Upwork's intention that I receive any money back.

I did not pay for source code. I paid for hours logged.

re: "Second possible case is she claims 70 hours, but i agree and willing to pay for 56 hours only, what should i do then? Open dispute straight away? and in the same dispute, can i request the code too?"

Upwork does not care about how many hours the freelancer "agreed" to work.

Upwork charges my credit based on how many hours the freelancer logged.

I can not request source code from Upwork.

I can requst source code from the freelancer.

If the freelancer logs time but does not provide any source code, that is a matter for me to deal with, by communicating with the freelancer. It is not Upwork's intention to intervene in this situation. Upwork is not the "source code" police.

If I hire a freelancer and love the work that she is doing for me, I should continue to pay her to do more work.

If I hire a freelancer and then I don't love the work, or if she doesn't provide me with source code, then it is not Upwork's intention that I talk to Upwork Customer Support. Upwork wants me to deal with this myself. One way to deal with this is to end the contract and assign the remaining work to other freelancers on my team.

[yitwail]

---

Mohd Haiz H wrote:

i am dealing with a lady who i believe the owner of the agency and this agency is Upwork's member since 2006. Her profile showing 100% JSS and 108 hours. 

---

Mohd, 108 hours since 2006 is less than 1 hour a month, although since it's an agency, the freelancer(s) actually working on your job could have more experience. Incidentally, with specific exceptions, only one freelancer from an agency is permitted to work on an hourly job, not a team, although I have no idea how strictly this rule is enforced by Upwork.

[295209e8]

do you think she is at the advantage side to claim how many hours she think she deserve for? 

[prestonhunter]

re: "do you think she is at the advantage side to claim how many hours she think she deserve for?"

It does not matter to me what she claims.
It does not matter to me if she deserves that amount of money or does not deserve that amount.

I hired this freelancer.

I also hired Janet and Erick.

That's three freelancers.

One of them was able to complete 3 modules, at an average cost of $100 each.

One of them was able to complete 3 modules, at an averge cost of $150 each.
One of them was able to complete 3 modules, at an average cost of $250 each.

The quality of their work was the same.

I closed the contract on the freelancer whose cost was $250/module.

[tagrendy]

Updating the app may be out of scope, since you didn't request it, but reviewing the code is a base step, it's one thing if she agreed to do that step for free, but she would definitely have to do it before doing any other tasks. The issue is she gave you a fixed estimate for tasks that cannot be estimated precisely. Bug fixing can take 5 minutes or 5 hours, especially when it's in an unfamiliar code, you can't even begin to estimate how long it will take to find the root cause of the issue. 

That said, it would be proper to use time tracking software rather than manual hours, however good news is she hasn't added the hours yet, so you can pause the contract and renegotiate. Please note that you should focus on getting the work before paying, as counting on refunds will be more complicated later on.

[295209e8]

thanks for the reply. really appreciate that.