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fe1e068b
Member

Freelancer did not complete job according to my requests, what can I do?

I hired a guy to modify my code to implement xml http requests to post and get data to firebase. My existing code handled it already through front end and some backend. But I needed a different implementation.  He just needed to figure out how to adapt the code i gave him for user input. I gave him the code that had to be slightly adapted needed but he wrote about 15 lines of code which were totally different from what I requested so it is useless to me. Can I cancel the contract?

24 REPLIES 24
prestonhunter
Member

A client may cancel a contract at any time. For any reason. Or for no reason at all. Other words for "cancel" are "end" or "close."

 

If you don't love this freelancer's work, then I strongly advise you to end the contract immediately.

 

You are not this freelancer's mentor or trainer or uncle. You don't owe this freelancer any more of your valuable time.

 

End the contract. Stop spending more time with this underperforming freelancer.

Preston how do you know that the freelancer was under performing?  Isn't it entirely possible that the buyer now just doesn't want to pay.

re: "Preston how do you know that the freelancer was under performing?  Isn't it entirely possible that the buyer now just doesn't want to pay."

 

But I wasn't offering the client an opportunity to avoid paying the freelancer.

 

The clue claims that he doesn't love the freelancer's work. I take the client at his word. I am pointing out that the client should stop working with the freelancer immediately. The freelancer will be paid for all the work that he has done. But the client won't ask the freelancer to do any additional work.

 

This is about client satisfaction. This has nothing to do with payment.

 

The client's question was: "Can I cancel the contract?"

 

The answer to that question is "yes."

The answer is always yes.

As I explained, other words for "cancel" are "end" and "close."

 

(But "cancel" does NOT mean "avoid paying the freelancer for the work that has already been done." The client knows that.)

Nope.  The clues point to a very tech savvy buyer.  When someone says that something needed to be modified slightly then he can do it himself.  But he didn't know the trick.  Now the way he posed the question and you obliged by saying can he cancel the contract.  He got the goods, now he wants to cancel to avoid paying.

re: "Nope. The clues point to a very tech savvy buyer. When someone says that something needed to be modified slightly then he can do it himself. But he didn't know the trick. Now the way he posed the question and you obliged by saying can he cancel the contract. He got the goods, now he wants to cancel to avoid paying."

 

What you are describing is not "tech savvy."

 

When you speak of a client who paid a freelancer to do some work, and wants to weasel out of paying that freelancer for the work, then you are describing a client who is unprofessional, unethical and immoral.

 

The original poster is none of those things. So I have to assume that your assumption is incorrect.

 

I am going to assume that the original poster merely wants to end the contract, and not avoid paying. I think the original poster understands the Upwork system enough to know that he can't hire a freelancer to do something, and then simply NOT pay the freelancer. That's not how Upwork works.

Right two side of the story.  We don't know if the buyer is a weasel, cheat and a scammer or he is Gandhi reincarnated, and the worker he hired is a bozo.

 

The point being that you are very quick to advocate the position that the buyer can cancel contract any time (true), but you never mention that with that flexibility and power comes a responsibility to pay the worker.  By selectively ommiting that fact it creates the illusion that hey I can CANCEL the work and NOT pay.

 

Also, if I am not mistaken you can cancel anytime while the work is in progress.  Not after the work is delivered.  If hourly, you pay for the time if on a fixed price you ask for revisions and if that doesn't work you could refuse to release funds till you are satisfied.

re: "By selectively ommiting that fact it creates the illusion that they can CANCEL the work and NOT pay."

 

It was not my intention to suggest that a client can cancel a contract and NOT pay a freelancer for the work that has already been done.

 

Hopefully the totality of this thread makes it clear how this works:

1) A client may cancel a contract at ANY time. Client doesn't need to explain his reasons or get permission.

2) A client never needs to "prove" to anybody that the work doesn't meet his needs, or that the work was bad.

3) Cancelling a contract doesn't mean "not paying" the freelancer.

 

So that there is no confusion, here is some Q&A:

Q: If I hire a freelancer to do some work, and the work is of poor quality, do I still need to pay?

A: Yes

 

Q. If I hire a freelancer to do some work and the work is so bad that I can't use it, do I still need to pay?

A: Yes

 

Q. Don't these policies favor the freelancer?
A. No. These policies favor the client. Clients are NOT obligated to waste their valuable time talking with, mentoring, counseling or otherwise communicating with underperforming freelancers. Clients do NOT need to convince anybody that they are right in their belief that the freelancer's work is terrible, or that the freelancer himself is terrible. Clients are allowed to simply and unilaterally end a contract and be done with the freelancer. This helps the client immensely because it means the client can focus on his project an doesn't need to waste time with people who don't deserve his time.

I wish I could showcase the work I asked for vs what he provided me. I asked for a specific implementation. He returned with my own implementation with the exception of a 'sort by date' code that sorted comments from a single database, i never asked for this in the first place. The reason I hired him was to implement the database post and get request different to my implementation. I asked him again to implement what I wanted since I posted this thread, but he still returned with my code but split it into separate javascript files.

The evidence is clear on the UpWork chat log. I have filed a dispute and hopefully will arrive at a satisfactory outcome for me. I am in the process of rehiring for the same job.

re: "I wish I could showcase the work I asked for vs what he provided me. I asked for a specific implementation. He returned with my own implementation with the exception of a 'sort by date' code that sorted comments from a single database, i never asked for this in the first place. The reason I hired him was to implement the database post and get request different to my implementation. I asked him again to implement what I wanted since I posted this thread, but he still returned with my code but split it into separate javascript files. The evidence is clear on the UpWork chat log. I have filed a dispute and hopefully will arrive at a satisfactory outcome for me. I am in the process of rehiring for the same job."

 

Patrick:
All of this means that this freelancer IS NOT THE RIGHT PERSON for this job.

 

What I don't understand is:

Why do you want to spend MORE TIME with this person?

 

re: "I have filed a dispute and hopefully will arrive at a satisfactory outcome for me."

 

By filing a dispute, you are EXTENDING the amount of time that you need to spend with this freelancer. This doesn't make sense to me. As far as I am concerned, disputes are something that freelancers file if a client doesn't pay them. A client never needs to file a dispute, because a client is always able to fire a freelancer. By filing a dispute, you are elevating the importance of this freelancer to a status he doesn't deserve.

Lesson learned Preston, I didn't know I could fire him after he requested payment. Thus why I tried the dispute process.
My intention to was to dispute the job because he requested payment for a job not completed. Yes, I am extending the time with this freelancer by filing a dispute, but I'm not flush with cash to let him take the money for not doing his assigned job.

I have no problem releasing the funds. I do not intend to avoid paying for work. I just want what I asked for. I made this clear in the dispute. If the work he gives me is absolutely not what I asked for, is there any recourse?

If the work he gives me is absolutely not what I asked for, is there any recourse?

 

There's arbitration after dispute, but you need to pay $250+ and no guarantee you'll get the entire escrow amount back.

 

I think there's also option to have expert arbitrator or something (that should be needed if you want them to really look into the disputed part of a code/program) but with even more cost.

 

So there's no good news, unless the escrowed amount is large.

 

What should be done is better education by Upwork to clients, to prevent them from falling into something like this.

Hey Patrick, have you talked with the Freelancer about this issue and tried to work it out? Did the Freelancer refuse to work with you to resolve the issue?

If this client is the freelancer's trainer or mentor or uncle, then the client definitely should talk to the freelancer and help the freelancer to do better.

Yes I did. I replied to @Prashant P about how I asked for it to be done yet again, but he failed to produce what I wanted, instead returning with code that was almost the same as I provided him with the exception of a sort-by-date for comments posted to a single firebase database collection. I have filed for a dispute and the evidence is clear on the UW chat log for the moderators to judge.

Hey Patrick, keep your messages inside of Upwork in case you have a dispute. Obviously don't pay until the Freelancer fixes the issue. Thanks!

sajal36
Member

Hi, I believe in system development

1. Either developer / freelancer develop the code and deliver the working application OR

2. If freelnacer have to work on specification including design and architecture than he must code as per the specification 

 

As you were expecting a specific Design and architecture, did you provided him the specification on which he had to work. In case he has not worked as per specification provided than you must hold the freelnacer responsible for same and take action.

re: "In case he has not worked as per specification provided than you must hold the freelancer responsible for same and take action."

 

Clients are never obligated to hold freelancers responsible.

Clients are never obligated to take action against underperforming freelancers.

 

All of that sounds like you're asking clients to waste more of their valuable time on behalf of undeserving freelancers.

 

As a client, I just want to get certain tasks accomplished. If a freelancer demonstrates through his work that he is not up to the task, I don't need to talk to them, work with them, communicate with them, give them another chance, hold them responsible or take action. I can simply fire the freelancer and assign the task to other freelancers.

My view is simple -

1. Client short list freelancer after reviewing his or her profile

2. Client interview the freelancer for the job

3. Once the candidate is evaluated and found suitable than freelancer is selected for the job

4. Client assign the job to freelnacer by providing him with the discussed project scope and accpetance criteria

5. Freelancer start working on the project scope and pass or fail the acceptance criteria

6. If project pass the acceptance criteria the project is marked completed. However if acceptance crtieria not met due to any reason (Scope Creep, Freelancer skill gaps etc) than it need to resolve by collaboration and discussion.

If client is looking for a short term job  like Logo creation, PDF conversion or something similar than it is ok to hire and fire if found unsuitable. However, if it is about system development than it is expected to have some issue due to many reason. So this sort of job need to be address on case to cae basis. Not always it is about technical skills, sometimes issue might happen due scope creep, changing requirement etc..

bobafett999
Member

We only know one side of the story.  It is not a far fetched scenario that the freelancer did complete the task and now buyer feels that It took the smart freelancer only 15 lines of code, and he had to pay so much money!

 

I remember a story.  A plant was experiencing severe vibration problem in one of their piping systems.   They hired a consultant for $3,000.  The guy came looked around, took out a chalk and put a X on the pipe and asked them to brace it there.  It took less than half an hour.  The plant Manger was furious.  He didn't want to pay $3,000 to someone for half an hour of work.  He started arguing with the consultant.  The consultant gave him a breakdown.  $1 for the cost of chalk, and $2,999 for knowing where to put the X mark.

Prashant:

This is an excellent story and you  are making an excellent point.

 

But my contention here is that we don't need to know both sides of the story.

 

The original poster is not trying to avoid paying the freelancer for the work that has already been done. He just wants to know if he can end (or "cancel") the contract. The answer is yes. Of course he may end the contract at this point.

 

At no point have I assumed that the freelancer did anything wrong. So I don't need to know the rest of the story.

 

The freelancer in this situation may be brilliant. He may have done everything 100% correctly. Or he may be a complete and total fraud.

 

It doesn't matter.

If the client cancels the contract now because he doesn't love the freelancer's work, then the client is not violating any Upwork rules. The freelancer will be paid for his work this far. He has no grounds for complaining about the situation.

re: "I have filed for a dispute and the evidence is clear on the UW chat log for the moderators to judge."

 

For any clients who are new to Upwork:

It is good to know that Upwork is not interested in reviewing chat logs.

Upwork is not interested in evidence.

Upwork is not interested in judging the quality of a freelancer's work.

Upwork is not interested in looking at what the contract stated a freelancer will do, and then evaluating whether or not the freelancer did what is in the contract.

 

It is a COMMON MISTAKE for clients to think that these are things Upwork will do.

 

This is not a service that Upwork provides.

 

If a client files dispute, these things are NOT part of the dispute.

 

A client should never think:
"This task was in the contract, and the freelancer did not do it, so I will get money back."

 

That is NOT how Upwork works. And that's an important thing for clients to understand.

 

The "dispute" process means that an Upwork moderator will help facilitate communication between a freelancer and a client, so that they can come to an agreement about what should be done with the money.

 

The "dispute" process does NOT involve Upwork judging a freelancer's work.

 

If the dispute process does NOT resolve the matter, then it is possible for the freelancer and client to both agree to pay $291 to take the matter to arbitration.

That $291 fee is NOT refunded.

 

It is NOT GOOD BUSINESS for a client to plan to manage their contracts this way, by paying $291 whenever there is a dispute that can't be resolved. It makes more sense for a client to FIRE a freelancer proactively rather than paying a bunch of money to a freelancer and then trying to get money back.

bobafett999
Member

@Patrick L in this case you did find an idiot and scammer as a freelancer.   You must do whatever to protect your investment.  I would dispute.

 No matter what, a client should learn how the Upwork controls work.  All clients have access to the same buttons that I have access to as a client.

 

I recommend that clients learn where the buttons are, and learn when to click the buttons. Then they never need to deal with Upwork Customer Service in order to manage their freelancers and projects.

 

Clients who know where the buttons are never need to use disputes, mediation, arbitration, Customer Service to manage freelancers. 

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