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a9e303dc
Community Member

Freelancer manifests lack of focus and poor work quality while delivering project to other clients.

Dear community,

we have been active clients of odesk, elance and now Upwork and have been hiring many different freelancers with great results.

In April 2019, we hired a very skilled .php programmer and provided him a very clear and detailed list of specs and graphic wireframe. The freelancer agreed to take the job and started with great performance, but after few milestones he manifested an increasing lack of focus to our project. We noticed this because he started to not performing fixes or changes we listed or by performing changes he wasn't supposed to or by not following previous decision we both agreed upon.

The type of mistakes he makes clearly show distracion and lack of focus and we decided to wait to see if this was just temporary, sharing with Freelancer our feeling about the whole thing.

Freelancer than replied our project is too big, he is alone and generally the cost of it would be much higher, but he was the one to approach us, make an economical request and agree to do the job for the money he was asking.

We are sure his php skills are great, but we can't help but nothiching two important things:

- from April 2019 our freelancer also accepted and delivered other projects to other UW clients (as per feedback on his profile)

- the lack of focus he is manifesting to our project causes poor work quality on our project which means delays in launching our project which means a money loss from our side. This is not fare!

 

Is there any way we can demand this Freelance to focus and concentrate to our project before taking other projects, so that he can finish the job and deliver what he agreed to deliver?

Is there a time limit the Freelancer has to respect between milestones?

Please advise.

Regards

20 REPLIES 20
petra_r
Community Member


Gionata N wrote:

 

The type of mistakes he makes clearly show distracion and lack of focus and we decided to wait to see if this was just temporary, sharing with Freelancer our feeling about the whole thing.

Freelancer than replied our project is too big, he is alone and generally the cost of it would be much higher, but he was the one to approach us, make an economical request and agree to do the job for the money he was asking.

 


It looks like the freelancer has taken on a project which is more work than he thought and not allowing him to make a living. If you feel you are not getting what you need anymore, you are free to set a final milestone for the freelancer to hand the remainder of the project over to a new freelancer you hire to complete it.

 


Gionata N wrote:

 

Is there any way we can demand this Freelance to focus and concentrate to our project before taking other projects,


No, you can make no such demands.

 


Gionata N wrote:

 

Is there a time limit the Freelancer has to respect between milestones?

Please advise.

Regards


Milestones are agreed between client and freelancer. Upwork does not get involved with that.

 

You may want to find a new freelancer (it sounds like the original one seriously underquoted on price though..., so you may have to go with someone at a higher price-point) or consider compromisingon speed of progress and / or quality at the price you agreed.


As usually happens, you are getting what you pay for.

a9e303dc
Community Member

Petra,

thanks for your answer. I didn't particularly appreciated the "As usually happens, you are getting what you pay for." as the price we set was quoted from Freelancer based on our Wireframe and Specs. We did not ask to low the price neither negotiate it. We agrred based on Freelancer requested which had all info from us on how the project was supposed to be.

So in this case we were expecting to pay for what we requested and we are not definitely getting what we were asked to pay.

Hope it helps to understand our position.

Regards

prestonhunter
Community Member

re: "Is there any way we can demand this freelancer to focus and concentrate to our project before taking other projects, so that he can finish the job and deliver what he agreed to deliver?"

 

Upwork has no such restrictions as part of it policies or user interface, but as the client, you can stipulate any requirements that you want.

 

re: "Is there a time limit the freelancer has to respect between milestones?"

 

Upwork has no such policy, but as the client, you may stipulate any type of time limit that you want to.

 

===

Gionata:

I want you to succeed in your hiring efforts here on Upwork.

I think the thing that will help you the most is to shift your understanding of what is going on when you hire freelancers on Upwork.

 

YOU ARE NOT HIRING UPWORK.

 

Your questions make it sound as though you thought you were hiring Upwork.

 

Like... I hired this security company to provide round-the-clock body guards for the diplomat while he travels overseas to a country with considerable unrest. One of the bodyguards is absent-minded and lazy and I'm worried about his effectiveness. So I contact the company.

 

THAT IS NOT what is going on here.

 

Upwork merely facilitated helping you find freelancers to work on your project.

 

You have expressed many reservations about this freelancer's performance.

But that has nothing to do with Upwork.

You have all the power here.

All you need to do is tell the freelancer what your requirements are, and expect him to adhere to those requirements.

 

OR NOT.

 

Personally, I think "or not" is the better business decision.

 

My recommendation: DON'T waste your time telling the freelancer what your requirements are. He has already disappointed. Just stop working with him and continue working with the other people on the team.

 

As a client, you should PUT YOUR PROJECT FIRST.

 

Don't worry about this freelancer or that one. They are NOT where your priorities should be.

 

Continue working ONLY with the freelancers on your team who provide you the BEST VALUE and BEST RESULTS for your project.

 

======

 

Alternatively:

Close out any existing fixed-price contracts for the freelancer, and hire him (using an hourly contract) to server as a senior consultant on your project, while other freelancers do the bulk of the hands-on work that needs to be done.

 

This way you continue to have access to all his knowledge about the project, and you make it easier to work with the other freelancers on your team who are ready to do the work, but may need guidance.

re: "...we hired a very skilled .php programmer and provided him a very clear and detailed list of specs and graphic wireframe. The freelancer agreed to take the job and started with great performance, but after few milestones he manifested an increasing lack of focus to our project..."

 

It is a mistake to make a decision about whether or not to continue relying on a particular freelancer based on that freelancer's skill or their initial performance.

 

What matters is how the freelancer is contributing to the project NOW.

 

Never be afraid to stop working with a freelancer and continue working with other people.

 

Did you ever watch the FOX TV series "Lethal Weapon"?

It starred Clayne Crawford and Damon Wayans as Martin Riggs and Roger Murtaugh.

 

It was GREAT. Clayne Crawford was THE STAR of the show, and he was awesome in his role as Riggs.

 

For two seasons.

 

But then Crawford had to be dismissed for behavioral issues. THE STAR of the series had to be dismissed. The face of the show. He was replaced. Just like when Charlie Sheen had to be replaced on "Two and a Half Men." Not a gaffer. Not an editor. Not a supporting actor. THE STAR.

 

If the star of a show worth hundreds of millions of dollars can be replaced, then you can replace a PHP programmer who isn't what the project needs right now.

Thanks Preston,

I am sure everybody can be replaced but the amount of time we spent to explain and coordinate the project to the Freelancer suggest that if we had to find another one, we would have to put that time into consideration plus hope that the transition between the first freelancer and the second is smooth and fare (what if the first freelancer doesn't provide all milestones delivered so far or causes extra dealys in prividing that material).

I asked if Upwork can help us having the Freelancer realign to initial commitment not because I think I am hiring upwork, but because Upwork is the hosting platform and I am sure wants Freelancer to perform at their best to paying custmomers.

I guess Amazon would do the same between sellers and buyers.

Regards

BojanS
Community Manager
Community Manager

Hi Gionata,

 

I'm sorry about your experience with this freelancer. I've forwarded your concern to our team and one of our agents will reach out to you directly to advise you on further steps!

 

Thank you for reaching out to us!

~ Bojan
Upwork
a9e303dc
Community Member

Dear Bojan,

thanks for your help. I hope our open and pacific request for help/advise will allow us and the Freelancer to get back on track and finish this project as agreed.

Regards

"...the price we set was quoted from Freelancer based on our Wireframe and Specs. We did not ask to low the price neither negotiate it. We agreed based on Freelancer requested which had all info from us on how the project was supposed to be. So in this case we were expecting to pay for what we requested and we are not definitely getting what we were asked to pay."

 

This is NOT AN UNUSUAL expectation for a client to have.

 

Such an expectation MAY OR MAY NOT work out as expected.

 

Experienced clients know that - regardless of the original price quoted - a project may or may not be completed as originally planned.

 

Projects of this size and scope are managed in a MODULAR fashion. The project manager makes sure that she obtains functional, useful modules which meet the demands of the project in terms fo functionality and quality. Those modules come together and build upon one another until the finished project is complete.

 

Using a "binary" approach (meaning "all or nothing") is a recipe for failure with a project that is this complex.

re: "I am sure everybody can be replaced but the amount of time we spent to explain and coordinate the project to the Freelancer suggest that if we had to find another one, we would have to put that time into consideration plus hope that the transition between the first freelancer and the second is smooth and fair"

 

You are correct.

 

Which is why - if I was the project owner - I would instruct my project manager to ASK the current freelancer if we may close the current fixed-price contract immediately, and put him under an hourly contract.

 

I would have the project manager continue working with the original freelancer as a senior consultant, while having the other team members finish doing the hands-on work needed for the project.

kat303
Community Member

 We noticed this because he started to not performing fixes or changes we listed or by performing changes he wasn't supposed to or by not following previous decision we both agreed upon.

 

 

The above statement taken from the OP's original post makes me wonder if the freelancer experienced scope creep and many changes. The freelancer may be showing lack of interest because of all of that and that he isn't getting paid for the extra work and many changes. 

re: "The above statement taken from the OP's original post makes me wonder if the freelancer experienced scope creep and many changes. The freelancer may be showing lack of interest because of all of that and that he isn't getting paid for the extra work and many changes."

 

Speaking generally, based on my experience with fixed-price contrats - and NOT referring to any specific situation - I think this is HIGHLY likely.

 

The original poster may not even be aware of what "scope creep" is.

 

The client SHOULD FOCUS ON HIS OWN SELF-INTEREST.

The client should NOT focus on the freelancer's needs or interests.

 

And the best way to do that is to carefully avoid scope creep.

 

It turns out that this means a win-win situation for BOTH freelancer and client. But the client's reason for doing so is the success of his own project.

 

How can a client avoid scope creep?

 

a) Use an hourly contract.

[or]

b) Use very small, concise, clearly-defined fixed-price contracts or milestones.

 

This will HELP ENSURE THE SUCCESS of the client's project.

 

More tips for clients about avoiding scope creep and making sure a project stays on task, for a development project like this:

- A fixed-price milestone involves zero communication during the execution of the task. There may be communication BEFORE the task begins. There may be communication AFTER the task ends. There is no communication during the work on the task.

 

- No changes can be made to a task. The written description of the task describes what should be done. Nothing more. Nothing less.

 

- If a particular freelancer does not complete tasks quickly enough for the needs of the project, then additional freelancers should be brought in to work on different tasks. If a client does not want any particular freelancer to continue working on the project, the client should stop assigning tasks to that freelancer.

 

- It should never be assumed that just because a freelancer did one task, that the same freelancer should do the next task, or is the best person to do the next task, or will be available to do the next task.


Preston H wrote:

More tips for clients about avoiding scope creep and making sure a project stays on task, for a development project like this:

- A fixed-price milestone involves zero communication during the execution of the task. There may be communication BEFORE the task begins. There may be communication AFTER the task ends. There is no communication during the work on the task.

 

 


I must respectfully disagree. Time and again you state this in the forums, but that's not how my fixed price projects work - I need feedback from the clients. Sometimes it's a separate milestone and sometimes it's baked into the price.

 

Freelancers need to manage that balance and for myself, it's not black and white.

re: "I must respectfully disagree. Time and again you state this in the forums, but that's not how my fixed price projects work"

 

Miriam:

 

I did not say here that this applies to the projects you do.

 

I said that these are tips "for a development project like" the original poster's project.

 

For THIS client's project, he should structure fixed-price milestones so that they involve zero communication. His project manager should give an assignment, and then receive and review that assignment, and then give the next assignment, etc.


@ Preston ... seriously? For someone who has been here as long as you have, sometimes I have to shake my head.

"More tips for clients about avoiding scope creep and making sure a project stays on task, for a development project like this:

- A fixed-price milestone involves zero communication during the execution of the task. There may be communication BEFORE the task begins. There may be communication AFTER the task ends. There is no communication during the work on the task"

 

I only work fixed price, and I can tell you that there is a lot of communication between myself and my clients before, during and sometimes even after. Of course there is communication during, because neither I, nor my clients, have esp.

 

I don't know where you get this zero communication from, but it is so far from the truth as to be on another planet. You don't seem to understand what transpires in a fixed rate job across all categories/projects. So please ... stop with the no communication nonsense.

a9e303dc
Community Member

Hi Kathy and thanks for providing your opinion on this particolar matter.
Before we posted our job we paid professionals to create for us 2 attachements: a highly detailed wireframe (which would explain what the project should look like) and a specs list (which would explain what the project should do). Freelancer approached us with a "sure I can do that" attitude and made a money request for it. When his work didn't follow wireframe or specs we asked for changes to match above attachments. When his work presented bugs we asked for fixings. When his work presented changes we never asked, we let him know.
I am not sure where is the line between "scope creep" and "not delivering what was agreed", but I can assure you that, if work performed by freelance fulfilled our wirefeame and specs (as per our contract with him) we would happily avoid asking for changes and fixing.
Project was divided in 10 milestones and Freelancer worked great up to the fifth than delays and distraction mistakes started to increase while (in the same period) other projects were delivered to other clients.
We gave Freelancer the freedom to understand our project and make and offer (if interested). We should have been warned that, after a good start, our project would have been delayed due to our interest to have it done exactly as per our specifications.
Regards to all

Gionata:

I commend your excellent preparation for this project.

HIring professioals to create wireframes, detailed mock-ups, etc...

 

I think you did everything right.

 

But you got stuck on this current project exectuion part.

I think you're stuck on this idea that one person should do all of this part. That's not how most large projects are done.

 

This MAY HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH YOU.

 

Maybe the freelancer got a new full-time job.

Maybe he decided other projects are more fun.

Maybe he has a mental disorder.

You don't know.

 

Why do you even care?

I don't care.

 

I'm glad for his help on the first 5 milestones.

I'm tired of these delays.

I'm going to work mainly with the other team members to complete the project.

I'll hire him as a consultant with an hourly contract and have him answer questions and provide guidance, coordinating with the PM, to complete the project.

 

re: "We should have been warned that, after a good start, our project would have been delayed due to our interest to have it done exactly as per our specifications."

 

If you want a warning, I will be happy to provide you with one:

Any project that you embark on, whether on Upwork or through any other means, may be delayed if key people on your project don't want to continue working on it at the same rate they worked on it early on. Of if they die. Or if they join the French Foreign Legion.

 

Put the project first. Not the freelancer.

Why do you even care?

I don't care.

 

If you want a warning, I will be happy to provide you with one:

Any project that you embark on, whether on Upwork or through any other means, may be delayed if key people on your project don't want to continue working on it at the same rate they worked on it early on. Of if they die. Or if they join the French Foreign Legion.

 

Put the project first. Not the freelancer.

 

Preston, what kind of advice is that? Th client cares because it's his money, his time and most of all his project. The client Should care. And why should you care, it's not your project. 

 

There is no warning that the client should heed. Clients should expect that the freelancer they hire will perform the task assigned especially since presenting the wireframe and other materials. And if the freelancer is performing great the client should expect that great performance to continue. 

 

And IMO the client IS putting his project first. He wants it done. It was being done for the first milestone (of 10 milestones) And if the freelancer doesn't want to work on it for the same price, then that freelancer should never have agreed to work on it in the first place, especially after seeing the wireframe and all. 

No, the client should not care more about one individual freelancer than he cares about the project.

 

When I say "I don't care", I am putting myself in the client's place and modeling the correct mindset for the client.

 

The client SHOULD put his project first and should NOT focus on why the freelancer won't work on the project. Why does it matter? The freelancer's continued mistakes and lack of focus on the project are causing problems.

 

Why should I care what the true reason is? Maybe the freelancer himself does not even know the true reason.

 

I don't want to spend time "fixing" this freelancer. I want to get this project done in the most expedient, effective way possible. I want the project done on time, on budget, and with the level of quality and the features that I require. Figuring out why this freelancer has flaked out on my project does not help me achieve my goals. Nor does continuing to rely on him as the sole programmer on the project.

kat303
Community Member


Gionata N wrote:
Hi Kathy and thanks for providing your opinion on this particolar matter.
Before we posted our job we paid professionals to create for us 2 attachements: a highly detailed wireframe (which would explain what the project should look like) and a specs list (which would explain what the project should do). Freelancer approached us with a "sure I can do that" attitude and made a money request for it. When his work didn't follow wireframe or specs we asked for changes to match above attachments. When his work presented bugs we asked for fixings. When his work presented changes we never asked, we let him know.
I am not sure where is the line between "scope creep" and "not delivering what was agreed", but I can assure you that, if work performed by freelance fulfilled our wirefeame and specs (as per our contract with him) we would happily avoid asking for changes and fixing.
Project was divided in 10 milestones and Freelancer worked great up to the fifth than delays and distraction mistakes started to increase while (in the same period) other projects were delivered to other clients.
We gave Freelancer the freedom to understand our project and make and offer (if interested). We should have been warned that, after a good start, our project would have been delayed due to our interest to have it done exactly as per our specifications.
Regards to all

------------

Thank you for the more detailed information concerning that statement. IMO you did everything right. The freelancer didn't. Hopefully, you can take the work that was delivered to you and find another more competent freelancer to be able to pick up where this freelancer left off and to finish it. 

 

The only explanation I can give is that the freelancer, although he seen the specs etc and agreed to do it, found out it was more then he can handle. Perhaps he though it would go a lot faster, be more interesting etc and when he saw it start to be longer then he first anticipated, he started to bail on you. 

At this point, your best bet would be to communicate with this freelancer pay him for the work he did do, and let him know that you are ending the contract. It would be up to you if you want to let him continue working, but if so, make a deadline as to the completion of the next milestone and if that's not met, just end it. 

a9e303dc
Community Member

Morning Kathy,
thanks for the follow up and for expressing your positive opion on our case. 
I wrote to the Freelancer last friday openly requesting to get back on track for the same reason I explained here and he promised to get back to work today and let me know.
Let's see how that goes and, if it doesn't work, I will make use of Upwork Customer Experience Specialist option.
Regards

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