Jul 25, 2018 09:31:11 PM by Dennis M
Why would a freelancer say he is from another country rather than his ?
Example : I hired a freelancer and on his bio it says he is from Sydney, Australia but actually from Nairobi , Kenya
Jul 25, 2018 11:04:55 PM by Avery O
Hi Dennis,
There are times when a freelancer fakes his/her location, or any information on his/her profile. In these cases, we rely on the Community to report this to us, or directly to the Customer Support Team so that it can be escalated, and actions can be taken agains the user's account.
I checked your account and can see that you have already reported the freelancer. Let us know if there is anything else we can help you with!
Jul 25, 2018 11:34:59 PM by Dennis M
My Question is why would a freelancer want to change thir location ?
Jul 26, 2018 12:04:22 AM by Avery O
I'm not sure, Dennis. In my personal opinion, I feel like some freelancers feel that they are at a disadvantage coming from certain cities/countries. Because of this, they resort to fraudulent practices such as faking their location, or their profile information.
I am not sure if this is the case for everyone, as this is coming from my personal observation. Just the same, if you come across freelancers who do the same, you may report their profiles by flagging their profiles as inappropriate.
Jul 26, 2018 01:20:14 AM by Rene K
@Dennis M wrote:My Question is why would a freelancer want to change thir location ?
To get more credibility and to scam clients.
Jul 26, 2018 06:30:02 AM by Preston H
Anytime that freelancers from "Country A" claim that they are actually from "Country B"...
Then they only end up diminishing the reputation from freelancers from "Country A", because clients don't like it when freelancers lie to them like that.
This kind of thing only serves to give freelancers from "Country A" a reputation as scammers and fraudsters.
Furthermore, by claiming to be from "Country B", freelancers fail to build up the reputation of where they are actually from.
For example, I can think of a certain Eastern European country from which I have hired many freelancers for highly technical, complex server configuration jobs. They never lie about where they are from. Every one of them I have worked with has been a great experience for me! My mind can't help but form an association between this country and great freelancers.
But if those freelancers, in some misguided bid to "further their chances at getting hired" (??) lied about where they were from... if they all said they were from Ohio or something.... Then may be I would think it is Ohio that has such great, technically brilliant freelancers. Or maybe I would realize where they're really from, and think of freelancers from that place as fraudulent.
Jul 28, 2018 05:25:16 AM by Tamara H
I do not really understand the reason for doing that, but one explanation to this is that they are showing that they are from a country where the wages and hourly rates are high, compared to low-income countries, or mid-income countries, just like Kenya, to be able to ask for a higher rate. Because in some cases clients knowing that the freelancer is from a low-income countries offer working with lower rates. This has happened to my friend from India.
Thanks.
Jul 28, 2018 09:54:04 AM by Nichola L
I just had an invitation from a client who did that - and nothing was done about his account. Nor was he in the slightest bit fazed when I said he did not appear to be in Belgium. He said "no for the moment, I am in Asia". I wonder how many "moments" he has spent in Belgium.
Jul 28, 2018 10:36:16 AM by Preston H
re: "I just had an invitation from a client who did that - and nothing was done about his account."
Why would anything be done to his account?
Jul 28, 2018 11:23:31 AM Edited Jul 28, 2018 11:39:51 AM by Nichola L
@Preston H wrote:re: "I just had an invitation from a client who did that - and nothing was done about his account."
Why would anything be done to his account?
Because the "client" is lying about his location is fishing for freelancers and has not hired on this site. 7O invites sent. But maybe you are right. This is obviously the sort of client Upwork is trying to attract.
ETA: Oh and by the way, when I asked to see the work so that I could give him an accurate delivery time and price, he told me it was OK because the task had been assigned, but asked if I would be interested in other work. Well, the job wasn't assigned on Upwork, so either he is on a lot of sites or he has circumvented and so has the freelancer he hired (off site).
Jul 28, 2018 04:55:13 PM by Rene K
@Nichola L wrote:
ETA: Oh and by the way, when I asked to see the work so that I could give him an accurate delivery time and price, he told me it was OK because the task had been assigned, but asked if I would be interested in other work. Well, the job wasn't assigned on Upwork, so either he is on a lot of sites or he has circumvented and so has the freelancer he hired (off site).
This is bad behavior. But a client sitting in an office in Brussels could demonstrate a similar bad behavior. The client could be anywhere in the world actually.
There is one fundamental difference between a client and a freelancer on Upwork: the client is only expected to pay. They don't have to be skilled. They don't need to have diplomas, or certifications, or a portfolio. They can say they are from Liverpool while they are in Essen if it makes them feel better. They don't really need to do this since freelancers won't reject them, they won't struggle for months before they find a freelancer willing to work for them, but they can.
If their budget is in line with what the freelancer wants, if they are able to state clearly what they need and if they have a verified payment, they will find a freelancer. But hey, if they want to say they are in such and such place, why not. As long as their payment method is verified...
Some freelancers, on the other hand, struggle to find clients. As a consequence, sometimes, some of them lie about their skills, about their photo, about their location, all this in the hope to get hired. It's wrong too, but they are at the receiving side of the money so understandably, clients are not that fond of providers who lie.
When I order something online they don't care about who I am or where I am. They will ship it at any address I provide as long as my card is approved, even if it's a PO box. I, on the other hand, I'm not sending money to an unknown person who has a page somewhere on the Internet. I want to know who they are and if they are not a scam.
There are even consumer laws that make it mandatory for them to implement traceability measures so I and the consumer authorities can know who they are. But there are zero laws forcing me to prove my identity when I order on Amazed.com or on Ikeya.fr
Jul 28, 2018 05:46:28 PM Edited Jul 28, 2018 05:48:10 PM by Preston H
Thank you adding some clarifiction to this discussion, Rene.
Upwork has many expectations on clients, and places many restrictions on them.
But clients are not subject to the same location-identification policies as freelancers.
Jul 28, 2018 11:19:30 PM by Reinier B
@Preston H wrote:Thank you adding some clarifiction to this discussion, Rene.
Upwork has many expectations on clients, and places many restrictions on them.
But clients are not subject to the same location-identification policies as freelancers.
Clarifications are largely irrelevant to this discussion. The only thing that really matters is that if a client is willing to lie about his location, he will likely lie to freelancers about his willingness to pay them, as well.
Jul 28, 2018 11:42:11 PM by Preston H
The problem is that this thread was about freelancers who lie about where they live. Which is a valid topic.
But there was a post that referred to attempts by clients at disintermediation, or hiring off-platform, which is another valid topic, but it is not related. Both are serious violations of Upwork ToS. Both are things which Upwork puts great effort into detecting and preventing.
Confusingly, I think these topics were somehow linked by a reference to the locations associated with client accounts.
A client whose organization has people in more than one country, or a client who personally spends time in more than one country, aren't the same thing as a freelancer who lies about her location. Even a client whose posted location information is simply a figment of her own imagination is not the same thing. Upwork's polcies are different for clients and freelancers. And the reality for freelancers is different. If your last client claimed the United Kingdom as her location, but she lives primarily in France... How would this change the money she paid you? How would you even know?
I have earned so much money from clients whose locaton information was not what would be considered "accurate" or "correct" if we were talking about a freelancer account... It would be incredibly unrealistic for me to disregard these earnings and think that client location information is somehow a big red flag.
Jul 29, 2018 12:26:55 AM by Dennis M
Hello ,
Jul 29, 2018 01:22:21 AM by Nichola L
@Rene K wrote:
@Nichola L wrote:
ETA: Oh and by the way, when I asked to see the work so that I could give him an accurate delivery time and price, he told me it was OK because the task had been assigned, but asked if I would be interested in other work. Well, the job wasn't assigned on Upwork, so either he is on a lot of sites or he has circumvented and so has the freelancer he hired (off site).
This is bad behavior. But a client sitting in an office in Brussels could demonstrate a similar bad behavior. The client could be anywhere in the world actually.
There is one fundamental difference between a client and a freelancer on Upwork: the client is only expected to pay. They don't have to be skilled. They don't need to have diplomas, or certifications, or a portfolio. They can say they are from Liverpool while they are in Essen if it makes them feel better. They don't really need to do this since freelancers won't reject them, they won't struggle for months before they find a freelancer willing to work for them, but they can.
If their budget is in line with what the freelancer wants, if they are able to state clearly what they need and if they have a verified payment, they will find a freelancer. But hey, if they want to say they are in such and such place, why not. As long as their payment method is verified...
Some freelancers, on the other hand, struggle to find clients. As a consequence, sometimes, some of them lie about their skills, about their photo, about their location, all this in the hope to get hired. It's wrong too, but they are at the receiving side of the money so understandably, clients are not that fond of providers who lie.
When I order something online they don't care about who I am or where I am. They will ship it at any address I provide as long as my card is approved, even if it's a PO box. I, on the other hand, I'm not sending money to an unknown person who has a page somewhere on the Internet. I want to know who they are and if they are not a scam.
There are even consumer laws that make it mandatory for them to implement traceability measures so I and the consumer authorities can know who they are. But there are zero laws forcing me to prove my identity when I order on Amazed.com or on Ikeya.fr
_________________________________________
Yes I agree, but you missed the point.
1) If a client (or freelancer) lies about their location, then they are likely to lie about other things.
2) If a client tells me (having invited me) that the job has gone, and I see that it hasn't been officially contracted on Upwork, that makes me wonder if the client (and freelancer) haven't circumvented - not that Upwork seems to care about this very much, particularly if it is a client.
3) You don't need to tell Amazon or Ikea where you are because you have an identifiable credit card
and if you have no money then you don't get the goods.
Jul 29, 2018 02:18:56 AM Edited Jul 29, 2018 02:19:53 AM by Preston H
re: "If a client... lies about their location, then they are likely to lie about other things."
I appreciate where you are coming from, but every client lies about some things. This is like saying if the DNA in a client's foot is human, there may be other parts of his body that are human. The fact that a client lies doesn't change the nature of the money going into my bank account when I work for her.
Jul 29, 2018 02:24:23 AM by Nichola L
@Preston H wrote:re: "If a client... lies about their location, then they are likely to lie about other things."
I appreciate where you are coming from, but every client lies about some things. This is like saying if the DNA in a client's foot is human, there may be other parts of his body that are human. The fact that a client lies doesn't change the nature of the money going into my bank account when I work for her.
________________________
Lol! Preston, I love you to bits but that has to be one of the most fallacious arguments I have ever seen!
Jul 29, 2018 04:01:16 AM Edited Jul 29, 2018 04:04:12 AM by Rene K
@Nichola L wrote:________________________
Lol! Preston, I love you to bits but that has to be one of the most fallacious arguments I have ever seen!
I respectfully disagree with you. Or do I disrespectfully agree with Preston? I don't know, but the fact is that Preston has a point. You and I have spoken at length in the past about client identity and my position remains that a) you have no ways to know their real identity and b) you don't need to know it.
Upwork has payment protection in place and as long as the client's billing method is verified, they may say whatever they want about the size of their shoes, about their name, their city and their favorite soccer team, you are paid.
Of course, one could argue that there is a solution for point a). Client identity verification. Try this, people. Ask clients to go through an identity verification before they hire on Upwork. Try and you'll see how many clients you will have left. At least you won't have to worry about clients misrepresenting themselves. You won't need to worry about clients at all actually. They won't be bugging you anymore. And other freelancing platforms will be extremely grateful.
This is not aimed at anyone here in particular, but to anyone who wants Upwork to verify clients' identities: Upwork will probably never implement this. As a consequence, I recommend that you do this at your own level. When a client contacts you, ask them for a video chat and to send you their ID. There are even identity verification providers out there to whom you can subcontract the process for a fee.
As long as your clients are fine with this, as long as they are motivated enough to undergo an identity verification procedure, you're fine. If not, we will take them. No questions asked.
Jul 29, 2018 04:44:49 AM by Nichola L
We'll have to agree to disagree. In all the years I was working as a self-employed artist and then as a freelance translator and editor, I think I have had exactly one client (bar the people who bought stuff from my shop) whose identity I did not know. I have worked for "faceless" clients, but I have always known their outside identity.
The one person whose identity was "hidden", was a conman. I worked alongside a few other people whom he had cheated out of thousands pounds, to build a case against him and eventually, he went to jail - not for long enough! To my certain knowledge, he has been in and out of jail for deception and fraud since the internet began. Since then, I always do a bit of duedil before working for someone and I have never regretted it, or found that it was not worth my while.
Jul 29, 2018 09:05:53 AM Edited Jul 29, 2018 09:06:46 AM by Wendy C
Let's take the query down to pure semantics.
Where you are from is where you were born.
Where you currently reside is the question in point.
In the end, it's all nonsense. If the person in question tells the truth, that should be all that matters.
Like Nichola, I've worked with literally hundreds and hundreds of clients and have known each and every one of them via email, LI profile, Skype calls,etc. and they have known me to the same extent.
As an FYI, not all gigs require fluency in US or UK English (possibly the most common example).
Jul 29, 2018 12:50:11 PM by Prashant P
@Wendy C wrote:Let's take the query down to pure semantics.
Where you are from is where you were born.
Where you currently reside is the question in point.
That is very true. I am from India and I hear that question a lot. Depending up on the tone and who is asking I often reply,"None-of-your-bisiness,TX".
Jul 29, 2018 01:01:56 PM by Reinier B
@Prashant P wrote:
@Wendy C wrote:Let's take the query down to pure semantics.
Where you are from is where you were born.
Where you currently reside is the question in point.
That is very true. I am from India and I hear that question a lot. Depending up on the tone and who is asking I often reply,"None-of-your-bisiness,TX".
I might mention that the only time I (nearly) got scammed, it was by a client that had lied about his location. Go figure.
Apr 25, 2020 01:30:33 AM by Jennifer L C
For anyone that reverts back to this message, I have just reported a freelancer who did the exact same thing. I was looking specifically for USA talent. Without knowing, I hired a freelancer from Nigeria. It stated that he was from NJ on his Upwork profile.
Now that I have come to this realization, which I was able to prove by seeing the IP he was accessing our platform from, I look back at his profile, and I can see the local time in his area. It is 4 hours ahead of the time it should be.
So, if in the future you want to be sure of where your freelancer is from, just in case Upwork didnt do enough homework to verify the freelancers identity, look at the local time. If the local time is not the time it should be, then you know the freelancer is not from where he should be.
I wish I noticed this in the first place, but at least now I know. I wont make the same mistake twice thats for sure.
Apr 25, 2020 06:13:05 AM by Mary W
When you find a discrepancy in a profile, like the time, please flag it so the Upwork can take action on it.
Apr 25, 2020 07:19:18 AM by Petra R
Jennifer L C wrote:So, if in the future you want to be sure of where your freelancer is from, just in case Upwork didnt do enough homework to verify the freelancers identity, look at the local time. If the local time is not the time it should be, then you know the freelancer is not from where he should be. :
2 problems with that:
1)They can fake their time in their settings too, though 😞
2) Upwork often shows a difference of one hour between the time where someone truly is and the time shown on the profile...