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Freelancer said he was from Australia but actually from Kenya

versailles
Community Guru
Rene K Member Since: Jul 10, 2014
11 of 27

@Nichola L wrote:

 

ETA: Oh and by the way, when I asked to see the work so that I could give him an accurate delivery time and price, he told me it was OK because the task had been assigned, but asked if I would be interested in other work. Well, the job wasn't assigned on Upwork, so either he is on a lot of sites or he has circumvented and so has the freelancer he hired (off site).  


This is bad behavior. But a client sitting in an office in Brussels could demonstrate a similar bad behavior. The client could be anywhere in the world actually. 

 

There is one fundamental difference between a client and a freelancer on Upwork: the client is only expected to pay. They don't have to be skilled. They don't need to have diplomas, or certifications, or a portfolio. They can say they are from Liverpool while they are in Essen if it makes them feel better. They don't really need to do this since freelancers won't reject them, they won't struggle for months before they find a freelancer willing to work for them, but they can.

 

If their budget is in line with what the freelancer wants, if they are able to state clearly what they need and if they have a verified payment, they will find a freelancer. But hey, if they want to say they are in such and such place, why not. As long as their payment method is verified...

 

Some freelancers, on the other hand, struggle to find clients. As a consequence, sometimes, some of them lie about their skills, about their photo, about their location, all this in the hope to get hired. It's wrong too, but they are at the receiving side of the money so understandably, clients are not that fond of providers who lie.

 

When I order something online they don't care about who I am or where I am. They will ship it at any address I provide as long as my card is approved, even if it's a  PO box. I, on the other hand, I'm not sending money to an unknown person who has a page somewhere on the Internet. I want to know who they are and if they are not a scam.

 

There are even consumer laws that make it mandatory for them to implement traceability measures so I and the consumer authorities can know who they are. But there are zero laws forcing me to prove my identity when I order on Amazed.com or on Ikeya.fr

-----------
"Where darkness shines like dazzling light"   —William Ashbless
prestonhunter
Community Guru
Preston H Member Since: Nov 24, 2014
12 of 27

Thank you adding some clarifiction to this discussion, Rene.

 

Upwork has many expectations on clients, and places many restrictions on them.


But clients are not subject to the same location-identification policies as freelancers.

reinierb
Community Guru
Reinier B Member Since: Nov 3, 2015
13 of 27

@Preston H wrote:

Thank you adding some clarifiction to this discussion, Rene.

 

Upwork has many expectations on clients, and places many restrictions on them.


But clients are not subject to the same location-identification policies as freelancers.


 Clarifications are largely irrelevant to this discussion. The only thing that really matters is that if a client is willing to lie about his location, he will likely lie to freelancers about his willingness to pay them, as well.

prestonhunter
Community Guru
Preston H Member Since: Nov 24, 2014
14 of 27

The problem is that this thread was about freelancers who lie about where they live. Which is a valid topic.

 

But there was a post that referred to attempts by clients at disintermediation, or hiring off-platform, which is another valid topic, but it is not related. Both are serious violations of Upwork ToS. Both are things which Upwork puts great effort into detecting and preventing.

 

Confusingly, I think these topics were somehow linked by a reference to the locations associated with client accounts.

 

A client whose organization has people in more than one country, or a client who personally spends time in more than one country, aren't the same thing as a freelancer who lies about her location. Even a client whose posted location information is simply a figment of her own imagination is not the same thing. Upwork's polcies are different for clients and freelancers. And the reality for freelancers is different. If your last client claimed the United Kingdom as her location, but she lives primarily in France... How would this change the money she paid you? How would you even know?

 

I have earned so much money from clients whose locaton information was not what would be considered "accurate" or "correct" if we were talking about a freelancer account... It would be incredibly unrealistic for me to disregard these earnings and think that client location information is somehow a big red flag.

mtnrabbit
Active Member
Dennis M Member Since: Jul 25, 2018
15 of 27

Hello , 

 
The issue is about a freelancer that lied about his location. 
 
I called him out on his location , I had his IP address as Kenya and never as Australia. 
 
One hour after I notified him he changed his Bio to Nairobi , Kenya 
 
Which I then Notified Upwork and asked my question to the group. 
 
Race is not an issue because I saw his bio photo
 
Regards
colettelewis
Community Guru
Nichola L Member Since: Mar 13, 2015
16 of 27

@Rene K wrote:

@Nichola L wrote:

 

ETA: Oh and by the way, when I asked to see the work so that I could give him an accurate delivery time and price, he told me it was OK because the task had been assigned, but asked if I would be interested in other work. Well, the job wasn't assigned on Upwork, so either he is on a lot of sites or he has circumvented and so has the freelancer he hired (off site).  


This is bad behavior. But a client sitting in an office in Brussels could demonstrate a similar bad behavior. The client could be anywhere in the world actually. 

 

There is one fundamental difference between a client and a freelancer on Upwork: the client is only expected to pay. They don't have to be skilled. They don't need to have diplomas, or certifications, or a portfolio. They can say they are from Liverpool while they are in Essen if it makes them feel better. They don't really need to do this since freelancers won't reject them, they won't struggle for months before they find a freelancer willing to work for them, but they can.

 

If their budget is in line with what the freelancer wants, if they are able to state clearly what they need and if they have a verified payment, they will find a freelancer. But hey, if they want to say they are in such and such place, why not. As long as their payment method is verified...

 

Some freelancers, on the other hand, struggle to find clients. As a consequence, sometimes, some of them lie about their skills, about their photo, about their location, all this in the hope to get hired. It's wrong too, but they are at the receiving side of the money so understandably, clients are not that fond of providers who lie.

 

When I order something online they don't care about who I am or where I am. They will ship it at any address I provide as long as my card is approved, even if it's a  PO box. I, on the other hand, I'm not sending money to an unknown person who has a page somewhere on the Internet. I want to know who they are and if they are not a scam.

 

There are even consumer laws that make it mandatory for them to implement traceability measures so I and the consumer authorities can know who they are. But there are zero laws forcing me to prove my identity when I order on Amazed.com or on Ikeya.fr


 _________________________________________

 

Yes I agree, but you missed the point.

1) If a client (or freelancer) lies about their location, then they are likely to lie about other things.

2) If a client tells me (having invited me) that the job has gone, and I see that it hasn't been officially contracted on Upwork, that makes me wonder if the client (and freelancer) haven't circumvented - not that Upwork seems to care about this very much, particularly if it is a client. 

3) You don't need to tell Amazon or Ikea where you are because you have an identifiable credit card 

and if you have no money then you don't get the goods.  

prestonhunter
Community Guru
Preston H Member Since: Nov 24, 2014
17 of 27

re: "If a client... lies about their location, then they are likely to lie about other things."

 

I appreciate where you are coming from, but every client lies about some things. This is like saying if the DNA in a client's foot is human, there may be other parts of his body that are human. The fact that a client lies doesn't change the nature of the money going into my bank account when I work for her.

colettelewis
Community Guru
Nichola L Member Since: Mar 13, 2015
18 of 27

@Preston H wrote:

re: "If a client... lies about their location, then they are likely to lie about other things."

 

I appreciate where you are coming from, but every client lies about some things. This is like saying if the DNA in a client's foot is human, there may be other parts of his body that are human. The fact that a client lies doesn't change the nature of the money going into my bank account when I work for her.


 ________________________

 

Lol! Preston, I love you to bits but that has to be one of the most fallacious arguments I have ever seen!

versailles
Community Guru
Rene K Member Since: Jul 10, 2014
19 of 27

@Nichola L wrote:


 ________________________

 

Lol! Preston, I love you to bits but that has to be one of the most fallacious arguments I have ever seen!


I respectfully disagree with you. Or do I disrespectfully agree with Preston? I don't know, but the fact is that Preston has a point. You and I have spoken at length in the past about client identity and my position remains that a) you have no ways to know their real identity and b) you don't need to know it.

 

Upwork has payment protection in place and as long as the client's billing method is verified, they may say whatever they want about the size of their shoes, about their name, their city and their favorite soccer team, you are paid.

 

Of course, one could argue that there is a solution for point a). Client identity verification. Try this, people. Ask clients to go through an identity verification before they hire on Upwork. Try and you'll see how many clients you will have left. At least you won't have to worry about clients misrepresenting themselves. You won't need to worry about clients at all actually. They won't be bugging you anymore. And other freelancing platforms will be extremely grateful.

 

This is not aimed at anyone here in particular, but to anyone who wants Upwork to verify clients' identities: Upwork will probably never implement this. As a consequence, I recommend that you do this at your own level. When a client contacts you, ask them for a video chat and to send you their ID. There are even identity verification providers out there to whom you can subcontract the process for a fee.

 

As long as your clients are fine with this, as long as they are motivated enough to undergo an identity verification procedure, you're fine. If not, we will take them. No questions asked.

-----------
"Where darkness shines like dazzling light"   —William Ashbless
colettelewis
Community Guru
Nichola L Member Since: Mar 13, 2015
20 of 27

We'll have to agree to disagree. In all the years I was working as a self-employed artist and then as a freelance translator and editor, I think I have had exactly one client (bar the people who bought stuff from my shop) whose identity I did not know. I have worked for "faceless" clients, but I have always known their outside identity. 

 

The one person whose identity was "hidden", was a conman. I worked alongside a few other people whom he had cheated out of thousands pounds, to build a case against him and eventually, he went to jail - not for long enough! To my certain knowledge, he has been in and out of jail for deception and fraud since the internet began. Since then, I always do a bit of duedil before working for someone and I have never regretted it, or found that it was not worth my while.  

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