Freelancer stole from me and upwork let it ha...

0ecf04ee · ‎09-28-2019

I just went through upwork dispute process for the first time. I’d funded an escrow milestone for $250, hiring a web developer to make login pages. The agency quoted 45 hours to get the job done, but eventually took a month. After 30 days the project sitill wasn’t completed and I asked for a refund. The freelancer disputed my refund request. Upwork looked into it and advised the freelancer to refund me, but they refused and instead paid their part for an arbitration, Which is $291.

To me it’s illogical to pay $291 to get $250 back. But upwork has this rule that whoever pays the arbitration fee gets a refund if the other party doesn’t pay. If both parties pay then it’s non refundable.

The freelancer also violated my IP which is against the upwork terms and the dispute resolution specialist tells me that they’ve escalated the case for further investigation because the freelancer had evidently broken their terms of use. They ask for evidence and I send in screenshots some of which are right there in the upwork chat. I ask if if there’s anything else I can do during the investigation and I didn’t get a response back until 2 days later saying that my funds have now been released to the freelancer since I didn’t pay the arbitration fee but. I can file a claim if need be.

So upworks dispute resolution process seems like a backdoor for fraudulent freelancers to steal money and get away with it . Meanwhile they keep writing stating they imagine how frustrating it is for me. And I’m like really? You just let freelancers steal so what’s there to imagine?

has any client had a similar experience? What did you do or what do you recommend doing?

jordonbaade · ‎09-28-2019

Violated your IP?

Lol

prestonhunter · ‎09-28-2019

Ava: I am very sorry that you had a negative expehile using Upwork.

Unfortunately you far over-estimated what the dispute process can do for you.

There is never really a reason for a client to file a dispute. Clients need to understand the power they have within the standard Upwork user interface.

Basically, as a client, if you are filing a dispute, you are using Upwork incorrectly. There are far more effective ways to use Upwork, including carefully managing your projects in a proactive way and ckecking work submitted by freelancers and quickly firing freelancers who don’t provide the best value to your project.

0ecf04ee · ‎09-28-2019

I didn't file a dispute, they did. And once they did upwork told them to refund the money and they didn't.

petra_r · ‎09-28-2019

Ava N wrote:
I didn't file a dispute, they did. And once they did upwork told them to refund the money and they didn't.

Upwork can only make suggestions during mediation.

To get a binding ruling, you have to go to arbitration, which you declined to do.

That's the end of the dispute part of it.

kat303 · ‎09-28-2019

Ava - To me it’s illogical to pay $291 to get $250 back. But upwork has this rule that whoever pays the arbitration fee gets a refund if the other party doesn’t pay. If both parties pay then it’s non refundabl

IMO, IF you have concrete proof of your claims then it's logical to pay the fee. If the ruling was made in your favor, you would only have lost $41 dollars which is much better then losing $250 for not paying the fee.

The dispute specialist is an Upwork employee, They can only make suggestions and give advice, Their suggestions are NOT binding. Since the freelancer started arbitration first, you waited too long to pay your part of the fee. That's what the freelancer was hoping for. Since the freelancer started arbitration first, it was your part to also pay and during arbitration, that's when you show your "concrete" evidence because that's when a binding decision is made.

0ecf04ee · ‎09-28-2019

I see. Well the main reason I didn't pay was the upwork specialist told me they were further investigating the case. So when I asked if there's anything else I needed to do he didn't respond until 2 days later to tell me the escrow fund has been released since I didn't pay.
So I'm so confused because I was waiting for the investigation that they escalated.
I can't understand what they did but I think Upwork really needs to own up for this mess and reopen the case or provide a refund themselves.
The part that irks me the most is these guys clearly violated their terms yet their keeping them on there to defraud other people. **edited for Community Guidelines**

jr-translation · ‎09-29-2019

Ava N wrote:
I see. Well the main reason I didn't pay was the upwork specialist told me they were further investigating the case. So when I asked if there's anything else I needed to do he didn't respond until 2 days later to tell me the escrow fund has been released since I didn't pay.
So I'm so confused because I was waiting for the investigation that they escalated.
I can't understand what they did but I think Upwork really needs to own up for this mess and reopen the case or provide a refund themselves.
The part that irks me the most is these guys clearly violated their terms yet their keeping them on there to defraud other people. **edited for Community Guidelines**

Did Upwork release the payment before the deadline to pay your arbitration fee?

When you close the contract, leave an honest feedback. Considering the 500k they made so far, they might be inclined to refund you $250 just to make the public feedback disappear.

lysis10 · ‎09-29-2019

They probably already know they have bad feedback but they are both top rated and have tons of hours on here, so there is probably more to the story. They probably put up the $291 cuz they know the client will fold and they probably have the perk anyway. It's win-win for the freelancer and well played.

jr-translation · ‎09-29-2019

Jennifer M wrote:
They probably already know they have bad feedback but they are both top rated and have tons of hours on here, so there is probably more to the story. They probably put up the $291 cuz they know the client will fold and they probably have the perk anyway. It's win-win for the freelancer and well played.

True, but if they use their perk now, then then cannot use it in the near future. I am wondering if a negativ feedback only shows on the agencies page or also on the freelancers involved.

lysis10 · ‎09-29-2019

Jennifer R wrote:
True, but if they use their perk now, then then cannot use it in the near future. I am wondering if a negativ feedback only shows on the agencies page or also on the freelancers involved.

Well, yeah they can only use it once within a time frame, but it's not likely these guys will need it again for a while so it makes sense to use it with something like this.

Good question on the agency spin. Not sure how that would work.

But there is more to this story. The one guy has over 9500 hours on here and is TR, so we're not talking about a couple of scrubs just trying to scam this chick.

prestonhunter · ‎09-30-2019

The original poster was disappointed in how things worked out for her in the situation she described.

As Jennifer pointed out, we only heard one side of the story, so there is no way that Forum participants can know exactly what happened.

Regardless of the details of the original poster's situation, there are some useful points that the original poster - and any client or potential client - can take away from all this:

- Upwork offers limited services. Mainly it helps clients find freelancers. Upwork doesn't manage the work that freelancers do.

- Upwork's default agreement between freelancers and contractors provides language protecting a client's intellectual property rights. But Upwork does not offer any sort of intellectual property rights management or propery rights protection service.

- If there are problems between a client and a freelancer, Upwork's customer service personnel are not necessarily going to "make everyting right." They actually have very limited "powers" to do things in such situations.

- If a fixed-price contract goes to a "dispute," Upwork's employees can encourage clients and freelancers to work out their differences. But Upwork's employees don't actually look at evidence and render a verdict. That is what happens during "arbitration," which is a separate process that can take place AFTER a dispute, in which an independent 3rd party arbitrator rendes a decision abou the disposition of escrow funds. As this costs $291 (non-refundable), this is clearly not something any client wants to engage if it is at all avoidable.

- It IS possible for a client to avoid the need for disputes and arbitration. A client can thoughtfully set up relatively small milestones with freelancers to test and make sure that the freelancers provide the type of work and quality that the client wants. If any particular freelancer's work doesn't meet the client's needs, the client can simply stop working with the freelancer, and only work with the best, most valuable freelancers on her team.

MichaelJ · ‎09-30-2019

Jennifer R wrote:

I am wondering if a negativ feedback only shows on the agencies page or also on the freelancers involved.

Hi Jennifer,

Any feedback left on a contract wil apply to both the agency and the freelancer listed on the contract. It will appear on both the agency's profile and the freelancer's profile.

Thank you,

Mike

Agency Program Coordinator

Cheers,
Mike

lysis10 · ‎09-30-2019

Mike J wrote:
Jennifer R wrote:
I am wondering if a negativ feedback only shows on the agencies page or also on the freelancers involved.
Hi Jennifer,

Any feedback left on a contract wil apply to both the agency and the freelancer listed on the contract. It will appear on both the agency's profile and the freelancer's profile.

Thank you,
Mike
Agency Program Coordinator

If the freelancer chooses to have it removed, does the agency ALSO have to request removal if they are TR? Or does it get removed from the agency as well?

AveryO · ‎09-30-2019

Hi Jennifer,

For contracts that were completed through the agency, the request must be submitted by the agency owner, business manager, or agency admin. For the agency to avail of this perk, the agency must be Top Rated to remove feedback from their agency contracts.

~ Avery

AveryO · ‎09-30-2019

Hi Ava,

I am sorry to learn about your experience with your freelancers. I can see that the mediation ticket remains open, and I will go ahead and follow up with the team handling your case so that they can get back to you and assist you further.

Our team won't be able to share more details about your dispute here in the Community but feel free to follow up about it directly with the Dispute team via the ticket.

~ Avery

Freelancer stole from me and upwork let it happen