Sep 19, 2020 03:54:24 PM by Kevine F
Hello community,
I Hope you can help it...
I had agreed a fixed price with my freelancer. The app development including admin panel should cost 9000$ and the project should be finished in 3 weeks. In addition to a part of the design, I communicated a reference app to her. The target date was very tight, but I had made it clear that this was the basic requirement for me. The code should be pushed to GitHub. It was okay for me to have read-only access to it until the end of the project.
After two milestones, I realized that she was going to take much longer and had neglected my project. Even though the milestones were not really met, I paid money to support her and to motivate her. Now I have already paid $4280. I had started a dispute. After the mediation I decided to give her a second chance if things got better. The next talks after the mediation have told me that it will never get better. The quality of the work is not good enough. Many basic functionalities were not implemented. I always have to run after her to make things happen. The functions she describes as finished are full of bugs.
Since I no longer have any confidence in her, I have asked her kindly to give me the existing code so I can close the project. She claims she almost finished the project and I would have to give her additional money before I got the code. I would estimate the app to be 60% complete. I still have to invest more money to finish the code. It is never a pleasant thing to finish someone's code. I also don't know how properly it was programmed.
There are so many competitors on the market that my app might not be successful anymore. She made me loose so much time. I had taken out a loan to finance the project. Since June, I have been paying $60 interest on it every month. But I cannot yet launch my app as planned
The project should have been finished by the end of June. Now we are in September. I spent 4280$ + interest at the bank, my time, my nerves and I have nothing for it. She does not want to give out the code.
What is please the best way to get out of this project?
Thank you
Best regards
Sep 19, 2020 05:17:18 PM by John K
Sep 19, 2020 05:25:20 PM by Abinadab A
Read what advice was given to someone in a very similar situation.
https://community.upwork.com/t5/Clients/Freelance-requesting-payment-before-pushing-code/td-p/812404
You'll receive more advice, but it won't be very different.
For my time zone I'm too lethargic to type anything original now 🙂
Sep 19, 2020 08:42:55 PM by Luiggi R
Hi Kevine,
I'm very sorry to hear about your experience with the freelancer. I've shared your concern with the team and we'll have one of our agents follow up with you via a support ticket for further assistance.
Thank you.
Sep 20, 2020 04:49:33 AM by Kevine F
Hello Luiggi,
Many thanks for the quick response. I was contacted by the support and I hope to find a fair outcome soon.
Sep 20, 2020 08:54:54 AM by Preston H
Not about the original poster's situation or any specific situation:
There is no reason for any client who is commissioning softwere development work to NOT have complete access to the source code at all times.
Ideally, a client should have complete access to the source code, whether that be in a formal repository or on the server, AND the client should have a backup archive that the development team has no access to.
As a freelancer, when I start working on a project, the first thing I do is provide the client with root-level credentials to the place that all source code is located. I provide the client with the same credentials that I have.
I do this for hourly contracts AND for fixed-price contracts.
Clients do not need to work with any freelancer who refuses to do that.
What if a client thoughtfully and proactively maintained a backup archive where all source code is located?
And then a developer for some reason went rogue and deleted the source code or said that he wouldn't turn over the source code until the client paid more, previously un-discussed sum money or something along those lines?
The client could literally just end any contracts with that developer and BLOCK the developer in communication tools. Then the client restores the source code to the main repository from the backup archive, and continues with the project with the other developers on the team. Or hires new developers.
If a client manages her project proactively and thouthtfully, while following some basic, standard practices, then the client will not be in a situation where a freelancer can "extort" or "blackmail" the cilent about the source code.
These tips serve other purposes:
EVEN IF a developer is working on a project of his own, and completely trusts himself to not "blackmail" himself, the developer knows that he needs to have backups and previous versions of the source code. What if the developer's server crashes and he can't recover data from the server? The developer does not panic, because his source code is available from the backup archive.
What if - after making the latest changes to the site - the project owner discovers that it is crashing consistently? She doesn't panic. She has the team roll back the source code to the previous version.
What if the project owner is well into the development of a project, and has seen screenshots of work, but never obtained the source code? What if the developer just disappears or stops working on it, and then the project owner learns that no real work was being done? The client was paying for nothing. The "developer" was just a scammer. That scenario will not happen if the client is regularly receiving the source code and having her project manager evaluate it.
Oct 5, 2020 05:16:54 PM by Kevine F
Oct 5, 2020 05:35:31 PM by Preston H
re: "Why doesn't anyone from support take the time to look at the result and compare it with the requirements."
Why?
Because that is not a service that Upwork offers.
Oct 5, 2020 05:56:52 PM by Kevine F
Oct 5, 2020 06:05:06 PM by Preston H
Is the freelancer you worked with saying that she has completed source code but she is holding off on sending it to you because she wants you to pay for it first?
If you can provide us with a complete picture of your CURRENT situation, we can advise you here.
It is no longer necessary to work with Upwork Customer Support. Let's discuss your options right here in this thread.
Oct 7, 2020 07:10:14 PM Edited Oct 7, 2020 07:26:16 PM by Joanne P
Thank you Preston,
as I wrote, I paid 4280€ and the last payement was in July.
Due to the fact, that she cannot keep the deadlines and the quality is very poor, I decided to stop working with her.
From the builds I got the App ist like max 60% done. I asked to Release the Code, so that I can close the project.
She claims that I already got the builds for what I paid. Really what is a apk or other build file worth without source Code?
As I understood the Upwork Support there is nothing to do. I just lost my money. They offered me 250$
From 4280$ I spent, they want to give me 250 voucher to get a née Freelancer to start the work from scratch.
**Edited for community guidelines**
Kevine
Oct 5, 2020 06:59:17 PM Edited Oct 5, 2020 06:59:57 PM by Abinadab A
Kevine F wrote:
...
You need help. With moving forward.
$4,500 is a lot of money to have flushed down the toilet. It's also not a lot of money.
What if I told you dwelling on this has already cost you more than $4,500?
First things first, terminate your relationship with that freelancer.
Be sure to give honest feedback in the process. You lost, but you want to make sure other clients don't get into the same situation you did. Help them make a more informed hiring decision vis-a-vis the freelancer when a project comes up.
Now use the lessons learnt from this botched relationship to make a success of your next hire.
Insist on work being done directly on your own server OR receiving all source code weekly at most. You or someone you designate should review work done weekly and ensure that you have access to it, along with reliable backup in case things go wry.
Learn everything you can about how Upwork works. Including the best practice of not releasing funds until you have received, reviewed, become in possession of, and approved work submitted.
You won't find a web app of any import that was developed by only one person. None.
This is why you should make sure that your project is being developed in a modular fashion, so if one dev guy leaves you can get someone to pick up where he left off. This is common sense, isn't it?
So no, "I'll complete the entire project and send it in 2 months' time". Tell 'em, "No way. No freaking way".
Kevines tend to be kind, sympathetic, and gentle. Know that this may work against you in your next hiring decision, as it might make you prone to being taken advantage of. Keep that in mind and the problem is solved - review your proposals in the cold hard light of the day. Make the right choice next time!
But, know that the success or otherwise of a decision is often based not on the decision, but on the effort you put into making the decision work. So hire right, and manage right!
Oct 7, 2020 07:15:17 PM by Kevine F
Oct 6, 2020 10:19:20 PM by Petra R
Kevine F wrote:
I can understand that. What happens now?
That rather depends on whether it is an hourly or fixed rate contract.
If it is a fixed rate contract, is there currently money in Escrow? Or did you release the last milestone less than 30 days ago? If that is the case, you can dispute. If there is currently no money in escrow and the last invoice date for the last milestone is more than 30 days ago, you have missed the dispute deadline.
It is a bit strange that you released so much money without having seen what you are paying for. The whole point of escrow is that you fund a milestone and then the freelancer does the work, you check it, and then you you add the next milestone and so on.
Oct 7, 2020 06:55:40 PM by Kevine F
Oct 7, 2020 09:51:26 PM Edited Oct 7, 2020 09:52:49 PM by Preston H
Kevine, I am very sorry to hear about your disappointing experience.
I am certain that in the future you will not work with freelancers/developers who withhold source code.
I believe you will require developers working for you to deliver all source code regularly, or prior to you releasing payment.