Im having trouble finding a competent web developer, please help.

[1d269cc4]

Hi Folks

Im having no luck at all finding a competent web developer.

A colleague got me onto UpWork, saying it was fantastic and how i could get freelancers to do all the jobs that i dont know how to do, or dont have time to do. Sounds great!.

So far, ive been lied too, cheated and ripped off. Im pretty much at the end of my dealings with UpWork as ive had freelancers say they can do a task, get right into the job and then say its impossible!. So far im about $2.2K down.

The last freelancer i used has had his UpWork account suspended and now wants me to use his alter-ego account (a female, this time).

Does anyone qualify the freelancers in anyway?.

How do i know they have the qualifications they say they have?.

How do i get my money back from freelancers who failed in their tasks?.

How do i find a competent web developer?

Thanks in advance

Nige

[g_vasilevski]

Hi Nigel,

I`m sorry to hear about the bad experience you had. Our team will reach out to you directly via ticket and email and will assist you further with your job and finding the right freelancer.
I can also suggest to check out our resources below and learn more about Upwork:

• How to Choose and Interview the Right Freelancer for Your Project
• Client Webinar Getting the Most Out of Upwork 

Regarding the suspended freelancer, could you reach out to me via PM (click on my name) and share more details about the second account you`ve mentioned? Thank you.

[prestonhunter]

re: "Does anyone qualify the freelancers in anyway?"

No.

re: "How do i know they have the qualifications they say they have?"

There is no way to know that for sure.

re: "How do i get my money back from freelancers who failed in their tasks?"

Never try to get money back from freelancers. That is a waste of time and resources. If you worked for my company and I caught you trying to get money back from freelancers, I would fire you. Instead, you need to evaluate the work that freelancers do and you need to STOP working with underperforming freelancers. You continue working with the best ones.

The IDEA that you might be able to get money back from freelancers is what causes projects to lose money. Is this idea technically true? Yes. But as an effective client, you need to put that idea out of your mind. You need to decide: "Even though Upwork has ways to (possibly) get refunds from freelancers, I will personally never try to get a refund, because I know that in the long run that is how projects lose money."

re: "How do i find a competent web developer?"

It is acceptable to look at freelancers' profiles. You may look at what they write on the profile overviews. You may look at their portfolios. You may look at what they write in cover letters. Pay particular attention to feedback that they have received on their Upwork jobs.

But don't spend too much time doing these things.

MORE IMPORTANT:
Hire a variety of people to work on your projects. Hire people from different backgrounds, different levels of experience, different pay ranges, etc.

And then carefully evaluate the work that they do, especially early on. Either you evaluate their work, or your independent project manager evaluates their work.

Consider the quality of their work, as well as how expensive they are. The hourly rate is not as important as overall cost. If "Janet" took 10 hours to create Module X, and her rate is $5/hour, then it cost you $50 to get Module X done by Janet. If "Peter" created Module X in 1 hour, and his rate is $25/hour... And if the quality of their work is equal... then it means that Peter is HALF AS EXPENSIVE as Janet is, even though Peter's hourly rate is five times as high as Janet's is.

The more people you hire, the more options you will have.

Remember: You have NO WAY OF COMPARING a freelancer's work if you only hire one freelancer.

And let me be very clear about something: I'm talking about evaluating a freelancer's value AFTER you have hired them and paid them to do some work. Quotes and estimates don't matter very much. I know that some clients find fixed-price contracts appealing. But if you want to save time and keep things simple, stick with houry contracts.

Ultimately the way you will save money and succeed in getting your projects completed is to hire enough number of freelancers for you to find really good ones you provide you with good value, and those are the ones who you will end up paying most of the money to. You want to spend as little money as possible on the bad/underperforming freelancers. If you can make a decision about them after only an hour or two of paid time, that's great. Sometimes it may take a little longer.

Be very proactive in using the power you have as a client to "fire" freelancers. (They are freelancers, so you never have to think of it as "firing" them if you don't like the word. Technicaly you are just closing the contracts.)

[1d269cc4]

Hi

Thanks for the feedback, will certainly bear it in mind. 

I reckon i will have to get a project manager or more likely just find a reputable company that will build the website for me as this is getting over my head. 

It wouldve been nice to keep using Up Work as the general premise is fantastic, but if the freelancers can create bogus alias's and have no accountability for their work then its simply not worth the headaches of using this service.

Maybe i will try again another time, but only if the clients are better protected.

Thanks 

Nige

[a_lipsey]

---

Nigel H wrote:

Hi

Thanks for the feedback, will certainly bear it in mind. 

I reckon i will have to get a project manager or more likely just find a reputable company that will build the website for me as this is getting over my head. 

It wouldve been nice to keep using Up Work as the general premise is fantastic, but if the freelancers can create bogus alias's and have no accountability for their work then its simply not worth the headaches of using this service.

Maybe i will try again another time, but only if the clients are better protected.

Thanks 

Nige

---

Nige, it sucks that you'll move away from the platform because there are many freelancers working on here who are honest and experts at what they do (myself included). Vetting a freelancer can absolutely be a challenge, especially if it's not a field you are familiar with. I would probably end up like you, if I were hiring a web developer, because I know nothing of web development. 

Unfortunately the site acts as a marketplace resource for clients and freelancers to connect. They aren't a job service that vets people. They vet freelancers when they start earning as a safety precaution, but not before then. A lot of what happens is not really anything Upwork can do about proactively. Freelancers sell their accounts against TOS. It's impossible to prevent this, and only after it's reported can Upwork remove the freelancer. 

However, remember that even in the brick and mortar world, you can be taken for just as much of a ride. And these days, with so much business being done remotely even by brick and mortar agencies, you might likely be dealing with someone via Zoom or phone anyhow. 

[1d269cc4]

Hi Amanda 

Thanks for replying 🙂

You're right, its really hard trying to find a competent professional on this forum, when you don't really understand the job, that the "professionals" are actually doing.

I simply don't have the time, expertise, or will to deal with "the freelancers".

Every time I post a job I get flooded with offers within minutes. Some of the offers are obviously optimistic in their skill set, but most of the applicants genuinely look good. So far I've hired 3 "professionals" to work on my website, none have had the skills they claimed to have.

Nige

[1d269cc4]

Hi Preston 

Thanks for your reply, I appreciate it!. 

Sadly I don't have the specialist knowledge about websites or the time to look over the "professionals" shoulders all the time, in order to make sure, they are doing what they initially promised.

Upwork has contacted me and offered a 30-minute phone chat to try and help me. We shall see how that goes, and go from there.

Cheers 

Nige

[prestonhunter]

re: "Sadly I don't have the specialist knowledge about websites or the time to look over the "professionals" shoulders all the time, in order to make sure, they are doing what they initially promised. Upwork has contacted me and offered a 30-minute phone chat to try and help me. We shall see how that goes, and go from there."

I really don't think that Upwork personnel can help you.

You need a project manager.

It really does NOT MATTER what Upwork does.

Upwork has no power to change principles of software engineering.

You have three choices:

a) hire a project manager

b) do the tasks of a project manager yourself

c) hope that your lead developer will fulfill the role of the project manager; 20% of lead devs can do this

Your project will fail if you don't have somebody acting as project manager.

[gbalint]

As Optimus Prime said: We are here, we are waiting.

I found it weird that since I put my price to $60/hour (which is still on the low side), I don't get any kind of invites. That tells the story of what clients are looking for here. When it was $20/$30 per hour I was getting invites, but nothing worth mentioning.

It's like clients are posting jobs and waiting for people to apply to them. Can't say what's generally happening, but I'm not browsing jobs, I don't have time to spend looking for jobs and I don't feel like begging by applying to begin with.

If people are interested in doing business, my profile, as well as of others, is available to be searched and contacted at all times.

[1d269cc4]

Hi Gabriel 

I feel for you mate!.  it's got to be hard competing in this forum... 

I just posted a job to redesign our stubby holder, not a big job, relatively straight forward.

I reckon I've had 10 people reply within 20 minutes, some as low as $3ph.... 

I hope things work out for you buddy

Nige

[d8c72a6b]

I'm having similar issues. I thought Upwork was a place to find talented freelancers but every person I find is either not qualified or not a freelancer or looking for a full time gig so doen't wnat to work on the project they submitted a proposal for? Why aren't these people on Ziprecruter instead if they want a full time job? What an absolute waste of time! I'm been trying to find someone for 3 months to help me transfer, then maintain 1 website.

[fd1a3637]

Look at it from our point of view. Most job postings are incomplete, and we don't find out what the job actually entails until we speak to the client. Also, the vast majority of jobs that come across my feed are looking for someone to do the job on the cheap. I guarantee there are plenty of qualified people to do the job if you are willing to pay what it's worth. Interviews go both ways. We are interviewing you as well.

[gbalint]

I was wondering if it's worth making a software development company and training some developers myself. Probably it isn't since people are looking for $10/hour and just having a company registered would probably drive the cost to at least $50/hour (accounting, dead periods, vacation days, accounting again, taxes, more taxes) even if we are all working remotely so no rental costs for an office.

Anyway, I've been playing with this thought for a while seeing how there are still complaints that good developers are hard to find - which I find weird, I've met a lot of excellent developers in the last 3 years since this thread was started. But yeah, none of them were under that 3000 euros per month mark.

Anyway, drop me a line if anyone is interested in investing/growing a development team and is looking for the technical expertise component.

[25fdd470]

i think you can believe me bc i think i can help you something you need. i'm vietnamese, honest is real

[sajal36]

Nigel - I believe if you are not hiring the right candidate or say any agency then you will have this problem will keep recurring. For any project there are 2 aspects - Business Requirement and Project requirement. I believe you have been through both the initial aspects before hiring the developer or even agency.

 As Preston have mentioned, you need to hire a project manager or have an acting project manager. I believe it will good starting points for you to start the project. Whoever you hire, the candidate need to be evaluated for their skills. I have interviewed more 20K candidates, for any project requirement it tooks lots of screening and interview to get the right fit.

If you are going for freelancer then you need to have other factors too aligned such as if you need dedicated or ok with part time etc.

[innovatery]

Pay up 🙂 https://www.upwork.com/freelancers/~01f3c2bcc972b8349a

[gbalint]

Nice, that rate makes developers paid 3000 - 5000 euros a month be optimistic for the future.