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Is reimbursible contract an open cheque?

Active Member
Majid K Member Since: Sep 11, 2019
11 of 22

Hello Petra,

In my case, multiple freelancers (belonging to same company) have indeed worked under single contract. Out of the nearly 300 hours that have been claimed until now, majority were under 'manual time added' catgegory.

There are 2 contracts ongoing and atleast 3 freelancers (to my knowledge) are working on these 2 contracts. All 3 freelancers work for the same company and are housed under 1 roof at their work location.

 

Meanwhile, thanks for being of genuine help (unlike others who use this community forum to do cheap self-promotion)

Community Guru
Preston H Member Since: Nov 24, 2014
12 of 22

re: "Meanwhile, thanks for being of genuine help (unlike others who use this community forum to do cheap self-promotion)"

 

Majid:

I'm familiar with the Upwork users who are participants in this thread.

And I have read what all of them have written here.

I can assure you that all of them are only interested in helping you.

 

(I'm not so sure if that's the case with the freelancers you hired.)

Community Guru
Petra R Member Since: Aug 3, 2011
13 of 22

Majid K wrote:

 

In my case, multiple freelancers (belonging to same company) have indeed worked under single contract. Out of the nearly 300 hours that have been claimed until now, majority were under 'manual time added' catgegory.

There are 2 contracts ongoing and at least 3 freelancers (to my knowledge) are working on these 2 contracts. All 3 freelancers work for the same company and are housed under 1 roof at their work location.


This is a big fat violation of the terms of service and you need to contact Upwork immediately.

In your case I would request dispute mediation (which will, however, likely only look at the hours logged during the last 30 days, but in the case of the violations in evidence, might go further.)


This will give you a degree of leverage you can use as the basis of negotiation with the agency.(rather than a genuine "Gimme my money back!" )

 

Manual time is not protected and you'd win any dispute for all manual hours in the previous 30 days, but I would suggest you use that as a bargaining chip / basis of negotiation to stop that agency 1) violating the terms of service and 2) doing their bait-and-switch thing..


Your project should have been done as fixed price if various people are working on a fixed deliverable.

 

Active Member
Majid K Member Since: Sep 11, 2019
14 of 22
Hello again Petra,
I've contacted the company asking them to discuss and come to a solution. It's been almost a day but they haven't reverted. Also this thread has caught attention of 1 of the upwork moderator, so i'm hoping a mediation would happen soon.
Whatever has happened has happened. All that i'm now looking for is a successful and peaceful completion of this project.

Thanks to all for the support.
Moderator
Goran V Moderator Member Since: Mar 24, 2017
15 of 22

Hi Majid,


Our team will reach out to you via ticket where you can share more evidence with us. Our team will investigate this and assist you further as well directly on your ticket. Thank you.


Untitled
Community Guru
Kathy T Member Since: Jul 17, 2015
16 of 22

To add on to what's already been said,: 

On hourly contracts a client pays for the hours a freelancers logs in using Upwork's Tracker and not for the work produced. That doesn't mean you can't get your work. It is perfectly within your rights to ask for all or any work produced every XX days. If you don't received the actual work done then you should pause the contract until you do receive the work.And if things are not going as planned, you can cancel the contract at any time whether you have a reason to or not.

 

For hourly contracts you do not have to pay for manual hours entered, screen shots showing the freelancer was doing something else instead of working on your project. (providing they used the Tracker) and you can also dispute screen shots where there are not meaningful notes entered. 

Community Guru
Preston H Member Since: Nov 24, 2014
17 of 22

I sincerely want the original poster - and all clients - to succeed with the projects.

 

But Upwork is not like a vending machine into which a client can put some money, and out comes a finished project.

 

Upwork does not provide custom software or graphic design or any other type of product. Upwork facilitates clients finding freelancers.

 

A client must still manage a project - or hire somebody to manage the project (such as a project manager).

Active Member
Majid K Member Since: Sep 11, 2019
18 of 22

Hello Preston,

Please note my project is not related to information technology. It's for a mechanical product development.

Community Guru
Petra R Member Since: Aug 3, 2011
19 of 22

Preston H wrote:

But Upwork is not like a vending machine into which a client can put some money, and out comes a finished project.


Everyone is well aware of that, Preston.

 

I understand where you're coming from with your "Oh, it's not a problem, just start over with someone else and it's your own fault because you mismanaged your contract" attitude.

 

That is indeed all well and good from your point of view, your own client projects are tens of dollars, not 10 thousand dollars like in this case, and being lectured how he did it wrong isn't helping the OP move forward. It is, of course, a lot easier to walk away from a contract worth $ 40 than $ 10 000.

 

He may well have some leverage against the agency, who, if the OP's account is accurate and complete, appear to be breaking Upwork's ToS by running a multi-people project through an hourly contract and may have indulged in a game of bait and switch when it comes to the hours/price.

 

Community Guru
Preston H Member Since: Nov 24, 2014
20 of 22

Petra:

I don't doubt that you are interested in helping the original poster.

 

This thread is about his situation, and has nothing to do with my own hiring history as a client. (I'm not sure how that is relevant.)

 

My advice here is focused on helping the original poster. But as always, given the fact that this is a public forum, our posts can be instructive for other people reading these threads.

 

I don't think the original poster is in any way dishonorable, but there is no getting around the fact that mistakes were made. If others can learn from what has happened here, that's a good thing.

 

The fact that a large amount of money has been invested in this project IS a key aspect of this situation. Nothing I have said in this thread was meant to convey the idea that the client should just walk away from the work that has been done. That is the opposite of what is actually in my posts here.

 

In any large project, it is important for a client to organize the work in a MODULAR way. This means that money spent on the project should go toward creating usable, complete steps or modules.

 

No client should spend $10,000 and not have anything to show for it.

 

Each chunk of money that is spent should result in steps or modules that a client can look at as complete in and of themselves, and which can be used toward reaching the end goal.

 

The original post in this thread indicated a "binary" way of thinking... an "all or nothing" way of thinking, which is counterproductive to success.

 

I HOPE that the original poster's management of this project was sufficiently non-binary in such a way that the work done by the freelancer or group of freelancers is usable and productive regardless of what happens in the future.

 

I don't doubt that the original poster wants to continue working with the current team of freelancers because he feels that this continuity will faciliate finishing the project sooner. That's always a consideration, but no project of this size should plan on such continuity as a certainty. Projects of this size should always be managed in a progress and modular way so that the project can survive possible personnel turnover. This makes the project design inherently better and it makes the work more maintainable in the future.

 

The original poster pointed out that this project is NOT developing a software system, but is developing a physical prototype.

 

I understand that.

Some of my wording in some of my posts here may be imprecise when applied to his specific project, but the basic principles apply to all types of projects that are this large.

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