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devlabsus
Community Member

It looks like freelancers are allowed to hide bad reviews, is this true?

I am reviewing some candidates for a new project I posted. Upwork has automatically categorized some of the applicants into a section labeled "Proposals not matching your qualifications". I understand this is an automated feature and given a typical job posting can have over 100 applicants, I appreciate it. And I also understand that there are many variables and algoriths that play a part in how/why a freelancer gets placed into this category, and I am fine with that.

 

For this particular job posting, I decided to review these applicants anyway. One of the first things I noticed is that I did not see their average star rating / job success rate. Why not? Does Upwork allow freelancers to hide their ratings? With one particular candidate, when I read his reviews, half of his reviews are exactly 5 stars and the other half say "No feedback given". In other words, to someome who was not paying attention it would appear that this person is a 5 star candidate. A superstar. I would have assumed this person is a GREAT candidate because all of his reviews are exactly 5 stars.

 

I don't think the freelancer is doing anything questionable or shady, and I believe in being rewarded for continuous improvement. It looks to me like Upwork is letting freelancers hide their bad reviews and in exchange, maybe their success rate is hidden? Is this true?

 

Please help me understand whether or not this is the case. I am not quite sure yet how I feel about it. I guess I am just used to the old way and going forward when reviewing candidates, I'll be more aware of this. In the past, I would (almost always) automatically disqualify a freelancer with a success rate lower than 85%. But if success rates are now hidden, then it seems like it would be harder for me to vet candidates.

 

Update:

Actually, I just noticed that *many* applicants for my most recent job posting do not show a success rate - not just the ones that are categorized in the "Proposals not matching your qualifications" section.

 

Again, I am in favor of second chances, but I can't help but automatically assume that if a freelancer is able to (and has) disabled or hidden his/her success rating, then there's something to hide. Sorry to sound biased like that but it's human nature I suppose. I've given my fair share of bad ratings when freelancers clearly mislead me or failed to complete a job. But I've also given many praises and positive reviews for those that deserve it. So if the rating system has any merit (as I believe it does) then I don't think some freelancers should be allowed to hide it.

 

ACCEPTED SOLUTION
prestonhunter
Community Member

"No feedback given" does not represent hidden feedback.

 

It means that a contract was closed without feedback being given.

 

This means that the freelancer himself closed the contract, because it is impossible for clients to close a contract without giving feedback.

View solution in original post

38 REPLIES 38
prestonhunter
Community Member

"No feedback given" does not represent hidden feedback.

 

It means that a contract was closed without feedback being given.

 

This means that the freelancer himself closed the contract, because it is impossible for clients to close a contract without giving feedback.

I just find it a little too coincidental that literally EVERY visible rating for this freelancer is 5.00 stars, yet more than half of his reviews (now that I went back and counted them all) are "No feedback given". So you are saying the freelancer is allowed to close a job before the hiring party has an opportunity to give feedback? If that's the case it seems like this freelancer is reaching out to the client before the job is ended, to get a feel for whether or not he'll get a 5 star rating and if he suspects he won't then he beats them to the punch by closing the door on the client, a sort of pre-emptive strike.


@Eric C wrote:

So you are saying the freelancer is allowed to close a job before the hiring party has an opportunity to give feedback? 


Not at all.

 

If one party closes the contract, the other party is notified and has 14 days to provide feedback. Also, stars are not that interesting. What really counts is the Job Sucess score (JSS) expressed in % on the top right corner of the profile.

 

A freelancer who has a significant number of jobs without any feedback will see a decrease in their JSS. Also, the JSS takes into account the answer to the how likely would you recommend this freelancer question into account. This answer definitely weighs way more than the star rating.

-----------
"Where darkness shines like dazzling light"   —William Ashbless

"No feedback given" means exactly that -- the client chose not to give feedback, after the freelancer closed the contract. It does not mean it was removed by the freelancer or Upwork. As a freelancer, I rarely close contracts and leave it up to the client to do so, with the end result that I have a huge number of 'jobs in progress' in my profile, even though there's little chance I would be asked to do further work on the majority of them, but a client who sees this *might* assume I would be too busy to take on more work. This is one reason a freelancer might choose to close a contract after no activity for months, and then it appears in the Work History as "No feedback given" if the client doesn't leave feedback within 14 days.

__________________________________________________
"No good deed goes unpunished." -- Clare Boothe Luce

Hi Rene,

The JSS is definitely more appealing to me and that was actually the second part of my original question - why is it a significant number of applicants to my job do NOT have a success score?

AveryO
Community Manager
Community Manager

Hi Eric, 


It's very likely that the freelancers applying to your job posts are new freelancers, or freelancers who do not have a Job Success Score yet. 

Freelancers will need to have a certain amount of feedback to receive a Job Success Score. More than 90% of freelancers have a score after 5 projects. Since not all projects and clients are equal, the length of time will vary. Nearly all freelancers have scores after completing eight projects. The projects need to be with at least three different clients and take place within a 24-month period.

 

You may read more about the freelancer Job Success Score here for more information.


~ Avery
Upwork
dzadza
Community Member

Hi Eric,
No feedback given  means exactly that -  freelancer had to close the project, since client couldn't be bothered to do that (or couldn't be found).  So - when the freelancer closes the project (and we have to do that, because too many  open projects are not  a good thing),  and client doesn't leave feedback - you get "no feedback given" on freelancer's profile.  Top rated freelances have the option to remove bad feedback only on one contract, I believe - but in that case no contract details are visible on freelancer's profile.
I'm in a similar situation - when I get the feedback from clients, it's usually good. But, many clients just take the work and pay - and never show up again. I believe those are happy as well, because I see that the  work is used - but they obviously have no idea that they should close the project and leave  their comments. Unfortunately, no one can make them do that   

I just found this posting after having my own experience with a freelancer, my negative but honest feedback was the only thing that got him to return my source files to me, I had made the mistake of having outside communications with him and so he was perfectly cordial and restrained on Upwork's communication platform but contacted me frequently on Whatsapp with unprofessional texts.

 

I am disappointed that my feedback was taken down and am curious what is the reasoning why Upwork allowed him to do so. If i did not give that honest feedback the freelancer would have gotten away with half of the project funds and and not submitted any of my source files to me after cancelling the project midway.

 

After pretending to submit/ return my files on Upwork and claiming, I wanted to underpay him, he got the feedback removed,  but then this only covers up his unprofessional behaviour and dishonesty.

 

You were right when you suspected - "No feedbacks given". It is exactly my case where my feedback disappeared and then became no feedback given. Extremely grating to know that a dishonest person is able to go back to work without any censuring by Upwork and having coverups take place.


Joash G wrote:

After pretending to submit/ return my files on Upwork and claiming, I wanted to underpay him, he got the feedback removed,  but then this only covers up his unprofessional behaviour and dishonesty.

 

You were right when you suspected - "No feedbacks given". It is exactly my case where my feedback disappeared and then became no feedback given. Extremely grating to know that a dishonest person is able to go back to work without any censuring by Upwork and having coverups take place.


I understand your disspointment. A very limited amout of freelancers with good reputation under very specific circumstances can remove feedbacks.

You did seem to release the payment earlier than you got the work. Don't do that in the future.

petra_r
Community Member


Viacheslav K wrote:  A very limited amout of freelancers with good reputation under very specific circumstances can remove feedbacks.

You mean the top rated perk? Then it says "This feedback has been removed" rather than "No feedback given"

 


Viacheslav K wrote:

You did seem to release the payment earlier than you got the work. Don't do that in the future.

No. The freelancer walked out halfway through the contract, the funds were returned to client, but the client then sent money again on the closed contract.

4add72d0
Community Member

Hi Petra R,

 

The point was not whether I deserved the treatment I got, but the fact that I only got the files from him when the feedback was filed and then Upwork removed my feedback just leaving - No feedback given.

 

In this case, should there not be some penalty for the freelancer? at least my feedback should be left to let future clients know what to avoid.

Hi, thanks for your advice.

 

My case is very complicated and partly my fault too. I am only unhappy about the part where the freelancer pretended to return my (partly completed) source files when my feedback was posted. In the Upwork chat he made it seem like he was being professional, however the msgs he sent to me on whatsapp were a different case being rude and threatening. If the first place he cancelled the project when I disagreed that he had not reached the first milestone terms for me to release the 50 % project amount. The first draft he created was not complete and he wanted 50 percent. Then after I found out he cancelled the project, I tried to pacify him and get him to at least send those files over to me for the 50% which i sent to him.

 

There's alot more complicated backstory, but the main point is that Upwork should not hide or remove my review - he was indeed not honest and very rude and unprofessional the moment he had the upper hand over me. This makes me think that Upwork is protecting such freelancers more than the future clients who risk their money with such unprofessional individuals.

I've had this capability confirmed to me by customer support at Upwork.

Depending on the "service level" within the freelancer side of the platform, if freelancers are willing to "pay" for a greater service level, they can remove bad reviews. 

 

The only ones who benefit from this is Upwork (who get's their cut) and bad freelancers while really good freelancers actually get hurt by this practice. 

 

 

petra_r
Community Member


Marston G wrote:

I've had this capability confirmed to me by customer support at Upwork.

Depending on the "service level" within the freelancer side of the platform, if freelancers are willing to "pay" for a greater service level, they can remove bad reviews.


This is entirely untrue! And absolute, abject nonsense. It is likely that you have misunderstood what you have been told, or (less likely), you were told nonsense.

 

There is no paid option that allows freelancers to remove feedback.

Top rated freelancers can remove one feedback every 10 contracts and 3 months, this is replaced with "This feedback has been removed"

 

It's a perk to protect great freelancers from occasional run ins with bad clients. You can CLEARLY see on a freelancer's profile if and how many times they used that perk.

 


Marston G wrote:

The only ones who benefit from this is Upwork (who get's their cut) and bad freelancers while really good freelancers actually get hurt by this practice. 


This too isn't true although I do think it should be stricter, maybe once every 6 months and 20+ contracts. But "bad freelancers" don't tend to achieve and keep top rated status, which is required for using the perk. 

498ad460
Community Member

The only people you are protecting are BAD freelancers. If Google, Amazon
or other platforms allowed removals of verified reviews they would be sued.

I am willing to bet there is a class action here due to mass miss
representation

I just closed a contract with and left a book of feedback, on the programers page it says, no feedback given. 


Terrence B wrote:

I just closed a contract with and left a book of feedback, on the programers page it says, no feedback given. 


You can't always see the feedback right away, and if one person leaves feedback but the other doesn't, the feedback might not show up for two weeks (the amount of time you're given to leave feedback).

Hi Preston,

 

No, this clearly not the case today in 2019. I just closed a contract and gave feedback on the Freelancer, praising the great parts of the job, but also pointing out the part where he gave me the run around when he discovered that possibly an error on his part had caused some parts of a migration to not work. He could have let me know that he cannot or does not know how to fix the issue or maybe even doesn't have time (the problem came a month or so after an initial migration), but he chose to not do that, and give me the run around instead. I find that for my job on his profile it says "No Feedback Given", which is not accurate. I gave the feedback and I closed the job. So, clearly Upwork has allowed the freelancer to hide/delete my feedback because it would provide an honest evaluation of his capabilities. Or, maybe it will show up after 2 weeks have passed. We'll see.

Preston, this does not mean the freelancer closed the contract -- that may have been true back in 2018, but not anymore. Clients can absolutely close a contract without leaving a review -- it's not impossible. One of my repeat clients do not leave feedback anymore and only left feedback for our first two contracts. I also had a client tell me that he couldn't figure out how to leave a review -- he was new to Upwork. So "No feedback given" means the client was too busy to leave a review, couldn't figure out how to leave a review, or didn't want to leave a review. "This feedback has been removed" is bad feedback that a freelancer asked Upwork to remove.


Ritchelle B wrote:

Preston, this does not mean the freelancer closed the contract -- that may have been true back in 2018, but not anymore. Clients can absolutely close a contract without leaving a review 


Nope.

Not the case.

 

The party who closes the contract, be it the freelancer or the client, does not have a choice, they have to leave feedback. This is as true in 2020 as it was in 2018 or 2015 or 2012.

 

This is why, if we want feedback, we encourage clients to be the ones to close the contract: that means we are guaranteed feedback, because as Preston absolutely correctly pointed out: It is impossible for a client (or a freelancer) to do the closing of the contract WITHOUT leaving feedback.

 

sergio-soria
Community Member

Why do you assume that good freelancers with 5 stars in all his/her jobs are hiding something?

 

Anyway, I don't think hiding rating is actually possible. Maybe you watched those profiles being logged off?

Sergio,

I only implied that the freelancer might be hiding something because I thought freelancers were allowed to remove bad reviews. If that WERE the case (which I have just learned is not possible) and a freelancer's profile had 7 5-star ratings and 11 'no feedback' ratings I would think they are hiding something. But, as others have pointed out, it is not possible for a freelancer to hide his rating from a job. So now that I know this, I would not say the freelancer is hiding anything.


@Eric C wrote:

Sergio,

I only implied that the freelancer might be hiding something because I thought freelancers were allowed to remove bad reviews. If that WERE the case (which I have just learned is not possible) and a freelancer's profile had 7 5-star ratings and 11 'no feedback' ratings I would think they are hiding something. But, as others have pointed out, it is not possible for a freelancer to hide his rating from a job. So now that I know this, I would not say the freelancer is hiding anything.


 Top Rated freelancers do have the ability to remove a negative review from their profile but it is limited. You cannot just remove all scores. I don't recall the criteria as I have never used it, but it may be something like 1 every 3 months after so many contracts, etc. I believe though it would say something to the effect that the feedback has been removed. Since I don't think it was brought up, I did want to mention this for the sake of completeness. Otherwise, if you are seeing no score - as others have pointed out - they are likely freelancers who are new and have not completed enough work to get a score. Everyone on this platform starts with nothing (from a UW score perspective) and has to work to get that JSS score. So someone without a score could have 20 years of great success but has only been on Upwork for 20 minutes and so no score yet. 


Eric C wrote:

Sergio,

I only implied that the freelancer might be hiding something because I thought freelancers were allowed to remove bad reviews. If that WERE the case (which I have just learned is not possible) and a freelancer's profile had 7 5-star ratings and 11 'no feedback' ratings I would think they are hiding something. But, as others have pointed out, it is not possible for a freelancer to hide his rating from a job. So now that I know this, I would not say the freelancer is hiding anything.


_____________________________________

Eric, 

 

Freelancers are not allowed to "hide" anything. Whatever you are seeing is what Upwork is allowing you to see. 

 

Top-rated freelancers are allowed a perk on a single really bad feedback and  can ask for it to be removed. This will show on their profile as "This feedback has been removed". The perk can only be used in certain circumstances. "No feedback" means exactly that - that neither party, for whatever reason, has  left feedback, it is not necessarily a point against the freelancer or the client. 

 

If you are not getting the full picture on a freelancer's profile, this will have nothing to do with the freelancer but how Upwork chooses to show you their profile. 

Nicola,

After how much time exactly does feedback appear on the profile of the freelancer or the client?

In my case, I closed a job, gave feedback, but see that on the Freelancer's profile it still shows up as "No Feedback Given" - how can that be, if I closed the job and provided feedback? Even if Upwork is waiting on the freelancer to give his feedback, should it not show the client's feedback (or visa-versa when that is the case) in the meantime? What if the freelancer does not leave any feedback  ... ever? Many freelancers I've worked with do that - they don't leave any feedback. I suppose just like busy clients, freelancers are busy too, and once a job is done, they also don't have time to leave feedback.


Vishal S wrote:

Nicola,

After how much time exactly does feedback appear on the profile of the freelancer or the client?

In my case, I closed a job, gave feedback, but see that on the Freelancer's profile it still shows up as "No Feedback Given" - how can that be, if I closed the job and provided feedback? Even if Upwork is waiting on the freelancer to give his feedback, should it not show the client's feedback (or visa-versa when that is the case) in the meantime? What if the freelancer does not leave any feedback  ... ever? Many freelancers I've worked with do that - they don't leave any feedback. I suppose just like busy clients, freelancers are busy too, and once a job is done, they also don't have time to leave feedback.


It's a two week window - if you have provided feedback, the freelancer can't view it until they leave feedback or 14 days pass (at which time they can not leave feedback). Until both parties have responded or 14 days have gone by since the contract was closed, it will say "no feedback given."

 

I promise, the freelancer can't do this.

 

Thanks Nicola for the prompt reply! I see, so I'll wait until 14 days
elapse and see what happens at that point. Thanks for clarifying.

-Vishal

Eric,

 

When you hear hoofbeats think horses, not zebras. No online freelance opportunity brokering board does the job well; Upwork is merely the least bad. Freelancers have little ability to control what you see.

 

I am alerted from time to time that I failed to meet all of the client's requirements, and see that "English: Native or Bilingual" is highlighted. That is because I have not taken a test to document that I speak, read, write and understand English. If the client is unable to discern from my response that my English is up to the task, I don't wish to work with that client.

 

As for JSS, there's a prize for anyone who can say with certainty exactly what is measured and how. I ignore JSS because its components are kept secret. I ignore all feedback with no narrative, regardless of number of stars. I have had remarkable success with hiring freelancers with no track record but with whom I explored a fit. My own JSS went down the drain at one point when I was in the midst of becoming ill without recognizing it, and failed to deliver, followed shortly by a job in which the client gave me a poor rating because I wouldn't work for stock in his company. I don't care. You probably shouldn't either.

 

In commodity services I suppose the algorithms make sense. In non-commodity services, it's a crap shoot.

I have probably more than 100 closed jobs with no feedback. Many clients don't bother adding feedback if the job was small or if they are in a hurry. They usually forget. 


Giovanni B wrote:

I have probably more than 100 closed jobs with no feedback. Many clients don't bother adding feedback if the job was small or if they are in a hurry. They usually forget. 


You actually only have a grand total of 3 contracts that closed without feedback  You have lots that have stars without written comments, but that is not "no feedback"! The stars ARE the feedback. The words are optional extras..

re: “I've had this capability confirmed to me by customer support at Upwork. Depending on the "service level" within the freelancer side of the platform, if freelancers are willing to ‘pay’ for a greater service level, they can remove bad reviews.”

 

This is factually incorrect.

 

There is no such thing as a paid option to remove feedback or bad reviews.

 

There are two possibilities:

a) You read or were told accurate information and you then misunderstood that information or you are now remembering that information incorrectly.

 

[or]

b) You read something somewhere which is incorrect or you were told something that is incorrect. It is indeed possible for an Upwork Customer Support person to be imperfect and say something that is inaccurate. But that doesn’t change how the Upwork system actually works.

 

 

 

I have chat images - I wonder how class action attorney would view these

re: “I have chat images”

 

I have a chat image of someone saying that the moon is made of cheese. That does not mean that the moon is actually made of cheese.

 

re: “I wonder how class action attorney would view these”

 

I guess we will never know.

 

=======

Upwork Support personnel are simply real human beings who are trying to earn money by doing a job. They are asked to learn about a complex system and provide information to users of a website. A lot of those questions could have been answered without contacting Support, by doing a search on the Help section and/or Community Forum.

 

I have no idea why anyone would be extremely interested in one thing that one Support worker said one time, rather than learning how the Upwork platform actually works. If someone said something once that isn’t true, who cares? People make mistakes.

The chat I have is from a customer support agent of Upwork. Additionally there are strict laws under the CFPB and enforced by the FTC that strictly limit the removal of consumer reviews under any circumstances. Allowing 10% of reviews to be removed under any circumstances (other than protected by law) is illegal 

re: "The chat I have is from a customer support agent of Upwork."

 

So what?

 

re: "Additionally there are strict laws under the CFPB and enforced by the FTC that strictly limit the removal of consumer reviews under any circumstances. Allowing 10% of reviews to be removed under any circumstances (other than protected by law) is illegal"

 

So what?

This isn't FTC. This isn't CFPB.

This is Upwork.

Upwork has its own rules.

Upwork is not going to make changes based on something a random user in the Forum says about what they think is "illegal" somewhere.

 

If you are interested in learning about how Upwork works, then you have come to the right place. You can obtain accurate information here in the Community Forum.

 

If you think that Upwork is doing something so wrong that you can not support the site, you are not required to do so. You could choose to not use the platform for any reason.

 

If you think that Upwork is doing something "illegal," then I guess you could go to the authorities or something. But the Community Forum is not going to be able to do anything about that. Seems like a waste of time to me, but to each his own. You can read more about that here: https://community.upwork.com/t5/Clients/problem-solve-here-no-FTC-BBC-FBI-PD-etc/td-p/678783

petra_r
Community Member


Marston G wrote:

Additionally there are strict laws under the CFPB and enforced by the FTC that strictly limit the removal of consumer reviews under any circumstances.


You're not a consumer for starters.

 


Marston G wrote:

Allowing 10% of reviews to be removed under any circumstances (other than protected by law) is illegal 


It actually isn't (you are misunderstanding the laws. What a company publishes on their own website isn't covered, and business to business is a different matter altogether) and additionally I doubt you'll find any freelancer who uses the perk on 10% of their contracts. I'd challenge you to find any profile where 10% of the feedback was removed. (which is easily identifiable).

 

Marston G wrote:
I have chat images - I wonder how class action attorney would view these

Oh please... you are joking, right?

498ad460
Community Member

I never joke.

In any case, it’s unethical behavior by Upwork to allow any reviews to be removed without cause - such as threats, exposing PII, etc. It really shows how the platform leaders think

re: "In any case, it’s unethical behavior by Upwork to allow any reviews to be removed without cause"

 

Petra said that she thinks the ability to do so should be more restrictive than it currently is.

 

I agree.

I'm not a big fan of the policy, and I have never personally used it, even when I have could have.

 

At this point, I honestly can't tell you how I would vote if Upwork held a vote and asked users to decide between getting rid of the "feedback removal perk" completely or leaving the policy in place as it is now.

 

Much of the content of this particular thread has been a discussion about the precise nature of how this works... rather than whether the policy should exist at all.

 

I respect your clearly-stated position on this:

Aside from certain extreme exceptions that you mentioned, Upwork shouldn't allow freelances to remove or hide feedback.

 

I understand the impetus for having the policy in place.

And I understand why you feel the policy is inappropriate and unethical.

 

For what it's worth, keep in mind that any time a freelancer DOES use the "feedback removal perk," the job listing on their page is clearly flagged with a note informing viewers that the feedback has been removed.

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