It's been almost 2 months and the freelancer ...

8f8999f8 · ‎08-23-2020

I'm new to upwork. This is the first time I've used this site. I hired a freelancer to proofread something for me back in June. No work has been done since then. This freelancer hasn't always responded to my messages. Upwork has taken a little over $1000 out of my bank account. Each week it takes a couple of hundred dollars out. Will I get a full refund since there is no work being done and no hours logged by the freelancer? How does this work?

prestonhunter · ‎08-23-2020

re: "Not sure how to cancel this."

You need to navigate to the list of active contracts:

Upwork -> Jobs -> My Jobs

Click on the contract listing. Click on the "three dots" icon. Choose the option to close the contract.

You need to do that immediately. Because every day that you keep this contract open, you are charged money.

re: "Upwork has taken a little over $1000 out of my bank account. Each week it takes a couple of hundred dollars out. Will I get a full refund since there is no work being done and no hours logged by the freelancer?"

It is not Upwork's intention that you receive a refund.

What you should do going forward is learn how to use Upwork correctly.

Please feel free to ask as many questions as you would like here in the Forum.

If Upwork was charging your account each week, but the freelancer was not doing any work, it means that you used the optional "Advanced" options on the contract set-up screen to set up a "weekly playment" (sometimes labelled a "weekly salary").

This feature is labelled very clearly. You made a mistake by activating this feature.

This money has already been paid to the freelancer. Upwork doesn't have this money, so you can't ask Upwork for a refund. You may ask the freelancer to issue a refund.

Somebody who doesn't know you, and doesn't know the freelancer, might look at this situation and legitimately ask questions, such as: Why did you set up the contract to include an automatic weekly payment? Why did you let the contract stay open for two months, with no work being done, while your credit card was being charged every week?

8f8999f8 · ‎08-23-2020

I agree I should have taken more time to learn how the site works. According to your tone it sounds like upwork will not help get me a refund. It's good that I got the freelancer's name and address before the job started. I will be able to sue them in court for my money. I'm also fortunate this freelancer doesn't live too far away from me. I will be able to take a couple of days off of work to attend court.

I find this site to be unnecessarily convoluted and too risky to use for basic work. I will not be coming back.

Thanks for your reply and helping me decide how I will proceed in this matter.

prestonhunter · ‎08-23-2020

Upwork has not done anything wrong. They have simply processed payments according to your instructions.

As I said, it is not Upwork's intention that they refund money to you. (Frankly: nobody has a business model based on collecting money from customers and then giving that money back to them.) Nevertheless, Upwork tries to be helpful. They may be willing to help you if you ask. They could facilitate communication with the freelancer. If all it takes is for you to request a refund, and the freelancer gives you a refund, that would be something worth trying before starting down a potentially expensive, time-consuming, and questionable path you are contemplating.

8f8999f8 · ‎08-24-2020

"(Frankly: nobody has a business model based on collecting money from customers and then giving that money back to them.)"

You've never used eBay before have you?

a_lipsey · ‎08-23-2020

StJohn L wrote:
I agree I should have taken more time to learn how the site works. According to your tone it sounds like upwork will not help get me a refund. It's good that I got the freelancer's name and address before the job started. I will be able to sue them in court for my money. I'm also fortunate this freelancer doesn't live too far away from me. I will be able to take a couple of days off of work to attend court.

I find this site to be unnecessarily convoluted and too risky to use for basic work. I will not be coming back.

Thanks for your reply and helping me decide how I will proceed in this matter.

First thing is you need to discuss with the freelancer and simply request a refund from them. If that fails, you can raise a dispute and go through the process of dispute, but realize the dispute is to help you and the freelancer reach an agreement - Upwork does not make decisions within disputes. If you'd like to go to arbitration, you have to pay th $291 and so does the freelancer and then you go to arbitration. Here is information on arbitration.

Failing that, you may need to proceed in small claims court. Will taking "a few days off work" along with travel and court costs be a reasonable trade off to collect on $1000? I know that for me I'd lose more money taking the time off trying to collect than the total of $1000. What revenue will you be foregoing generating on those few days added to the court costs, travel, etc., and is that more or less than $1000? I know it seems unfair to let the freelancer get away with it, but it seems to me that you'd be wasting even more money going after the freelancer than just letting it go. Ever heard the term: cut your losses?

Trust me, I know it's a hard thing to do; no one wants to walk away from a debt they are owed, but if it costs more to collect the debt than to walk away, then a good business person would focus on the activity that has the highest ROI. Collecting this debt does not have the highest ROI.

8f8999f8 · ‎08-24-2020

Freelancer isn't responding so I doubt we'll reach any kind of agreement outside of court.

I have 15 days PTO with my company per year. I haven't taken a day off this year so it will be like I didn't leave work at all and I still get the time off I want to take at the end of the year. There will be minimal loss on my end. It's only $45 to file a case in her home town. I'm not worried about that.

a_lipsey · ‎08-24-2020

StJohn L wrote:
Freelancer isn't responding so I doubt we'll reach any kind of agreement outside of court.

I have 15 days PTO with my company per year. I haven't taken a day off this year so it will be like I didn't leave work at all and I still get the time off I want to take at the end of the year. There will be minimal loss on my end. It's only $45 to file a case in her home town. I'm not worried about that.

PTO is still an expense to you. It's part of your benefits package/compensation. So you are spending part of your PTO on this. So it is an expense, and you are still spending a day's worth of earnings on this. Not a sound financial business decision, but of course do as you see fit.

LuiggiR · ‎08-23-2020

Hi StJohn,

I'm sorry to hear about your experience with this matter. We'll have one of our agents reach out to you via a support ticket to further assist you.

Thank you.

~ Luiggi

alysegoody · ‎08-24-2020

Please be aware that freelancers can see what is posted on this forum. The mistake looks like it was made on your part by setting up the contract wrong and you are coming across quite threatening by mentioning names and addresses...

8f8999f8 · ‎08-24-2020

I don't understand. If I had taken over $1000 from someone in exchange for work that I hadn't done then I would expect that person to try to get their money back. There are no threats made here. If this person doesn't give me a full refund then I will take that person to court. If I took $1000 even from a family member at least I would expect a visit from the police.

I don't understand why everyone here is sticking up for a thief. It makes no sense.

Here is what is going on happen. I will legally get my money back one way or another. I will not stop until I get a full refund. I am not a pushover so no one will stop me from trying as hard as I can to get my money back. I'm not going to let this person get away with theft.

I've done nothing wrong except allowing my ignorance of how this site works to be taken atvantage of. So my punishment is to get this money back.

I haven't posted any names or addresses online.

I hope they read this.

JoanneP · ‎08-24-2020

Hi StJohn,

I would like to update you that our escalations team reached out to you to provide further assistance. Please check this ticket number: 29506192, and feel free to post any questions there. Thank you.

~ Joanne

a_lipsey · ‎08-24-2020

StJohn L wrote:
I don't understand. If I had taken over $1000 from someone in exchange for work that I hadn't done then I would expect that person to try to get their money back. There are no threats made here. If this person doesn't give me a full refund then I will take that person to court. If I took $1000 even from a family member at least I would expect a visit from the police.

I don't understand why everyone here is sticking up for a thief. It makes no sense.

Here is what is going on happen. I will legally get my money back one way or another. I will not stop until I get a full refund. I am not a pushover so no one will stop me from trying as hard as I can to get my money back. I'm not going to let this person get away with theft.

I've done nothing wrong except allowing my ignorance of how this site works to be taken atvantage of. So my punishment is to get this money back.

I haven't posted any names or addresses online.

I hope they read this.

No one has sided with the freelancer on this thread. We've all tried to help you look at this objectively from a business perspective. You've lost $1000 and now you're going to lose even more money for the possibility of a judgment, and even if you get a judgment, you may not be able to collect on it. Unfortunately, since you paid a weekly salary, and the way the Upwork Terms and Conditions are, I think you're unlikely to win this in court anyhow. Hourly contracts are for hours worked, not results. Fixed price contracts are for deliverables, and weekly salaries are retainers. I'm not supporting this freelancer. I'm trying to get you to see that PTO isn't free money and you might be wasting more money (in the form of PTO) to try and collect this $1000. Let's say you make $72,000 a year and a day is $300 to you. You said filing is $45, plus gas and travel, let's say $400 total. If you win you'd get $600 net. If you lose, you not only lost your $1000 but another $400. Not to mention you are wasting time where you could be getting your project done.

Of course you will do what you want: we are just trying to advise you on the best choice for your business. Right now you are making a choice for your ego and desire to be right. I'd rather be successful and have high profits than be right.

Please do come back and let us know if you win the case and if you are able to collect. I'm sure we will all be interested to know the final outcome. Good luck with your lawsuit.

It's been almost 2 months and the freelancer hasn't done any work. Not sure how to cancel this.