Milestone Fail - How to undo?

scorrin · ‎11-07-2019

Once I select a freelancer for a milestone, if they don't deliver how do I stop payment and get my money back from escrow? They showed me a great demo, but after awarding the milestone they sent the code that doesn't work. Now that my money is escrow what is the risk of not getting my money back? Should I give them some time, and if so is my money at risk? Or should I just cancel the contract to get my money back?

prestonhunter · ‎11-07-2019

You do NOT need to give them any more time.

If you think that their work does not meet your needs, the fastest and most sensible way to get things back on track is for you to release the payment for the current task, and then close the contract. Then only continue working with freelancers who provide you with the highest quality work and best value.

You DO NOT NEED to get their approval or spend any more time with them if you do this.

Another alternative that you have is to try to get money back from the escrow payment instead of releasing it. This will require you to take more time and effort, but you are allowed to do this.

You may talk to the freelancer directly and ask them for a refund.

You could tell them:

"Jeremy, thank you for the work that you did on this project, but I don't think it is going to meet the needs of this project. I would like to release 50% of the current milestone payment. You will not need to do any more work on the project. I will appreciate it if you cooporate with this compromise."

The freelancer has the option to agree to any refund amount. Any amount up to the full amount of the escrow payment.

ALTERNATIVELY: You may file for a refund without getting the freelancer's approval. This means that a dispute will be started.

So essentially you have 4 options:

a) Release all remaining escrow funds, close contract, stop working with and communicating with this freelancer

b) Communicate with freelancer and mutually agree to a refund

c) Unilaterally close the contract while asking for a refund; maybe the freelancer agrees; or maybe the freelancer rejects refund request and an official Upwork dispute ensues

d) Continue working with and paying money to this freelancer

prestonhunter · ‎11-07-2019

re: "...is my money at risk?"

Your money is ALWAYS at risk ANY time you use escrow, whether it is here on Upwork or in any other escrow system.

Escrow means that money is put in an account that is PARTIALLY under your control, but not COMPLETELY under your control. Escrow means ANOTHER PARTY has some say in what happens to that money.

petra_r · ‎11-07-2019

Simon C wrote:

Once I select a freelancer for a milestone, if they don't deliver how do I stop payment and get my money back from escrow? They showed me a great demo, but after awarding the milestone they sent the code that doesn't work. Now that my money is escrow what is the risk of not getting my money back? Should I give them some time, and if so is my money at risk? Or should I just cancel the contract to get my money back?

If the demo worked, why don't you give them a chance to fix the code?

Rather than throwing away your money or getting stroppy with the freelancer trying to get out of paying them in full or in part as Preston suggested, why don't you discuss your concerns with the freelancer and give them the chance to work with you to get to your desired result first?

It is so unfortunate when clients are advised to give up and either lose money or get into a conflict instead of working with the freelancer to simply fix whatever issues there may be.

TALK to your freelancer. They are likely as invested in the success of the project as you are.

Preston H wrote:

So essentially you have 4 options:

a) Release all remaining escrow funds, close contract, stop working with and communicating with this freelancer

b) Communicate with freelancer and mutually agree to a refund

c) Unilaterally close the contract while asking for a refund; maybe the freelancer agrees; or maybe the freelancer rejects refund request and an official Upwork dispute ensues

d) Continue working with and paying money to this freelancer

or e - work with the freelancer to resolve the problem and bring the project to a successful end, which is the way forward any reasonable, rational, normal person would try first.

**Edited for Community Guidelines**

prestonhunter · ‎11-07-2019

re: "or e - work with the freelancer to resolve the problem and bring the project to a successful end, which is the way forward any reasonable, rational, normal person would try first."

I already said that:

option d: continue working with the current freelancer.

What do imagine to be the difference between continuing to work with the current freelancer and your superfluous "option e"?

petra_r · ‎11-07-2019

Preston H wrote:

option d: continue working with the current freelancer.

What do imagine to be the difference between continuing to work with the current freelancer and your superfluous "option e"?

C'mon Preston. Just don't.

Your usual double post (What IS it with that?) with only elaborate suggestions where one or both parties will lose out suggested as great recommendations, plus the "d Continue working with and paying money to this freelancer" with the "but you will have to pay more money" nonsense (There is no need to keep paying. The freelancer can fix the issue and then the contract can be closed successfully) added to it which you omitted from your reply. Those 3 words "continue working with" do not cancel out two full posts full of "Let's make sure one or both parties lose out" stuff.

You know exactly what I mean.

You told the OP that "the most sensible" thing would be to release the money and close the contract. This leaves BOTH parties unhappy. The client loses their money and the freelancer gets poor feedback.

The most sensible way for two adults to resolve situations is to talk to each other and work with each other.

prestonhunter · ‎11-07-2019

No, I don't know what you mean.

For what it is worth, continuing to work with the current freelancer IS an option. It is often the BEST option. But it is not the only option, and suggesting only this would not have answered the original poster's question.

If a freelancer's work does not meet a client's needs, then the most sensible thing to do IS to stop working with that freelancer. I can't decide whether or not that is the case for the client. So I provided all of the options.

petra_r · ‎11-07-2019

Preston H wrote:

For what it is worth, continuing to work with the current freelancer IS an option. It is often the BEST option.

Right. Or AT LEAST discussing it with the freelancer (which you didn't mention at all)

We don't even know WHY the code isn't working. For all we know it could be user-error or a minor thing or a malfunction at the client side or a server thing or any one of dozens of scenarios which ultimately could take minutes to resolve.

Which is why I was taking issue with the fact that you did not suggest it at all in any meaningful manner. Two posts full of stuff that can only result in one or both parties losing out, and 3 words about continuing working with the freelancer (wrapped into a dire warning of (fabricated by yourself) further costs.) No suggestion to find out why the code does not work, no suggestion to discuss it with the freelancer, no suggestion to communicate at all.

I just today sent in a file for a milestone worth over $ 2000 and the client's designer could not open the file. It flat out did not work. (Sparing you complicated technical explanation as to why)

I'd hate for that client to have read and followed your "let's make sure everyone loses out if at all possible" advice.

Of course, my client is an intelligent adult and simple added the designer into the chat and between us (and me being coached through using a script to convert the file) resolved the matter ~~in 5 minutes~~. Edited to correct that to 20 minutes.

So instead of everyone being unhappy and losing money or reputation, we fixed it together.

Like normal people do.

Of course the client could have fired me paying over $ 2000 and hired someone else, paying another $ 2000 and losing lots of time. (Your " fastest and most sensible" option, which is neither, of course)

Or upset me with a "I'll pay you half" nonsense and then pay another $ 2000 and lost a lot of time.

Instead between us we worked out why it didn't work, and swiftly fixed it, and everyone was happy.

**Edited for Community Guidelines**

But in the real world, people at least make an attempt to resolve issues rather than just throw in the towel, throw money out of the window needlessly, or damage their business partners.

prestonhunter · ‎11-07-2019

Petra:

You're right about the importance of trying to work with people.

I know that you are trying to provide good advice.

I think you may have failed to appreciate the fact that the original poster expressed interest in just cancelling the contract and getting his money back. And my original response made it clear that this is NOT really an option.

I hope that the original poster understands that I am trying to provide a comprehensive answer which specifically addresses his question - the way he worded it - while provided all of the options. Not just one option.

I hope he will read this entire thread, including your advice.

petra_r · ‎11-07-2019

Preston H wrote:

I know that you are trying to provide good advice.

"trying" ...... Really?

kochubei_valeria · ‎11-07-2019

Hi Simon,

I checked the contract I believe you are referring to and it looks like you're communicating with the freelancer and a solution may already be on its way. If you still need some assistance with the contract, let us know and we'll have one of our agents reach out to you.

~ Valeria