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e91667f8
Community Member

My proposals are archived!

Who can explain me why the half of my new proposals are archived? Today I posted a job to find a good freelancer for my project, but an hour later I discovered that the most of the proposals are in the archive list. What's going on? I even didn't have an opportunity to review the freelancers. Upwork promotes some freelancers and hides others?

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lenaellis
Community Member

Hi Everyone,

We apologize for the delay, but understand we may not always be able to address posts with urgency, especially over the weekend or holidays. We understand and have read your feedback and grievances. We are glad that many of you are pleased with the Talent Services decision to no longer archive proposals. At the same time, we will not be reimbursing connects. These proposals were archived, not deleted, which means clients still had full access to all submitted proposals and were able to see the total amount of proposals listed in each section.  

 

Rest assured, archiving will not be replaced by any new process. Proposals would only appear  in the Archived list if the client or freelancer took action on the proposal. Talent Specialists will only be shortlisting proposals, as they have done. The Shortlisted list highlights proposals that Talent Specialists want to share with clients, this separate list which does not affect or touch proposals in the All Proposals list.

 

ATS Navigation.png

The All Proposals tab includes all active proposals. Proposals withdrawn by freelancers or clients, and declined invites are not included in this active list, those would be found in the Archived list. The All Proposals list displays Best match as the default sorting order. However, clients can sort the proposal list as they see fit: Newest to Oldest, Highest to Lowest rate, etc. The total amount of proposals in a tab is always visible at the top alongside the navigation link.

 

 

ATS Sort.png

 

As for Talent Specialists in general, they will continue improving their services and training. We recognize the comments shared in the Community. Feedback about irrelevant invites is shared with their team and actioned when necessary. Obviously, we wouldn’t keep or push a program that wasn’t working or producing results. Currently, Talent Services assists with around 5% of all jobs on the platform and these jobs have a higher fill rate as well as end with high success rates and great feedback. And as mentioned before, both clients and freelancer are given an option to opt out of the service.

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328 REPLIES 328

Wendy, they are censoring us, too. Below is a post of mine from a day or two ago, as it now appears. The passage that was Edited for Community Guidelines was a remark that the logical response to a situation like this is usually a strike or a boycott. As you can see (but UW apparently couldn't), I went on to discuss how that isn't really a viable idea. But they bleeped me, anyway. Apparently, knees are jerking in all directions upstairs.

 

The moderators are no doubt tired of the back and forth. Then again, it's what they get paid to do and might even make a nice change, sometimes, from explaining to FLs how to set up their bank account information and why their profiles aren't approved yet. The suits are not tired of it because they are hiding behind the moderators.

 

**edited for Community Guidelines**. But what does that look like? I haven't been submitting proposals anyway because I'm booked to capacity for the next few months. I can't stop active projects in mid-stream and can't move them off the platform yet, so UW gets to keep claiming its percentage.

 

I wasn't kidding the other day when I said I hope somebody is building a new startup. Given a viable alternative, there will be a stampede to board the evacuation shuttles.


Melanie H wrote:

 


Not to play devil's advocate, because I'm not loving this either, but I doubt it's the competent people who will be leaving in droves. "Talent specialist" and auto-rejection nonsense notwithstanding, we obviously will, over a period of time, have the better chance at landing the good jobs than someone so far out of his/her league that s/he is shooting into the dark.

That's not at all clear given that at least two veterans in this thread seem to have been archived for charging too much, though we all know that clients are often willing to pay far above their posted budgets for the right freelancer.

iaabraham
Community Member


@Steve H wrote:

We recognize the expressed negative perception of this program and appreciate the conversations that have taken place thus far.  

 

It's not a negative perception; it's the truth. 

 

Talent Specialists communicate with clients about the details of their job to help the clients find freelancers that meet the clients’ criteria ... 

 

Obviously lies. And I believe the OP, Dan -- clients are not even informed about TS interference to begin with.

 

... We understand that many of you here have voiced concerns with the archiving of proposals. We have no plans to change this process.

 

Wonderful, thanks for making it clear that you don't give an [expletive] what your users (clients & freelancers) want.

 

... Since freelancers and clients alike have shared feedback on this thread about archiving, we’ve updated the messaging sent to a client when a proposal is archived ...

 

That's a nice way of sweeping this issue under the rug. Couldn't be bothered to improve your Talent Specialists' skills (or actually hire people who know what they're doing)? Or even just consider improving the system in general?

 

... There is not a legal concern here. The program is not in opposition of our ToS ... 

 

Um, yes it is clearly in violation of your own ToS. You can't think we're that stupid, can you?


 As I suspected, we received a terribly inadequate response to this (as with most other issues), and it's finally made me realize that I can't reasonably rely on Upwork anymore as my main source of freelancing income. It's good that this news came at the beginning of 2019, as now I can begin the year by concentrating my efforts on moving off the platform. Cleverer freelancers have already done this, and now I have to wake up and follow suit.

 

With the ever-decreasing quality of jobs posts, hiding freelancers' proposals as mentioned in another thread (https://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Why-Employers-do-NOT-see-your-Proposal/td-p/115079), job post visibility restrictions for non-US freelancers, and -- finally -- Untalented Specialists archiving our proposals, Upwork is no longer a freelancer-friendly site. 

 

Upwork/oDesk was great when I started, but now it's time to move on. The sad thing is that all this venting is in vain -- as others have pointed out, you neither care about what decent freelancers want nor bat an eyelid when said freelancers leave!

 

Enjoy running this site into the ground!

One has to wonder, as a friend of mine mentioned when discussing this issue, whether these 'talent specialists' are promoting people from their own geographical areas. 


@Irene B wrote:

One has to wonder, as a friend of mine mentioned when discussing this issue, whether these 'talent specialists' are promoting people from their own geographical areas. 


 

My approaches seem to occasionally say the job is "perfect" for me because the client is in my area.

 

I just got another one...the talent specialist knows I'd be perfect for the job as it involves updating Weebly pages, something I make absolutely no notation of on my profile nor list in my skills.

 

 


@Melanie H wrote:

...something I make absolutely no notation of on my profile nor list in my skills.

Want some laughs? I logged off and looked up my name in the UW search engine. Found it and what was below my description? That among other things I am good at Christian Theology, Counseling Psychology and Marriage Counseling! Topics I have no idea about!

 

If "Talent specialists" work the same way I am pretty sure they are totally useless for clients.

 

Back to the main topic, I feel devastated. I can't trust the system anymore.

 

 

Sergio,

I could not help it, and I tried the same as you.
Basically I am animator, colorist and designer and ... Surprise!

Skills Related to Maria Terrazas

What a mess! Not a single one is right!

 


@Maria T wrote:

Sergio,

I could not help it, and I tried the same as you.
Basically I am animator, colorist and designer and ... Surprise!

Skills Related to Maria Terrazas

What a mess! Not a single one is right!

 


Waiting for someone to come along and explain.

Had to see for myself. Logged off, went to UW, searched for myself and discovered I'm not here! At all!

 

Logged back in, switched my profile visibility to Public, logged back off, went and searched again. Still not here. 

 

Logged back in, switched my profile visibility back to UW users only, came over here to see if I could find evidence that had been here earlier.

 


@Phyllis G wrote:

Had to see for myself.... 


 Phyllis, I was able to find you when logged in.

phyllis.jpg

First of all searching a name when logged out is not a healthy way to see things. When you search, for example "Baris A" (or with my surname) there is PHP as a keyword but if you search PHP I'm nowhere to find. (Do the same with google, you'll see all kinds of BS)

 

What I want to say is this searching yourself while logged out is not the issue here and TS is not doing it like that (right Steve?). What they are doing though is wrong and should be stopped.


Baris A wrote:

@Phyllis G wrote:

Had to see for myself.... 


 Phyllis, I was able to find you when logged in.

phyllis.jpg

First of all searching a name when logged out is not a healthy way to see things. When you search, for example "Baris A" (or with my surname) there is PHP as a keyword but if you search PHP I'm nowhere to find. (Do the same with google, you'll see all kinds of BS)

 

What I want to say is this searching yourself while logged out is not the issue here and TS is not doing it like that (right Steve?). What they are doing though is wrong and should be stopped.


 Thanks, Baris! That's a relief (I think). After seeing what Sergio and Virginia turned up, I'm very curious about which skills/keywords are associated with me. But you're right, that's not directly the issue at hand (it's a separate, possibly related, piece of stupidity).

 


Phyllis G wrote:

But you're right, that's not directly the issue at hand (it's a separate, possibly related, piece of stupidity).

Yeah, my intention was not to go off-topic. I was just saying that if "talent specialists" work the same way they associate skills with freelancers no wonder why TS are useless to clients. Most of us receive invitations that have nothing to do with us and that's further sign of bad algorithms. I am pretty sure TS are not real people but algorithms instead, trashing proposals randomly. The OP said that they were archiving the good candidates and leaving the bad ones in. That's the most disheartening part, that we could be spending time and connects in proposals that may never be in front of the client's eyes because a TS deprives him/her the opportunity to see them. So what's the point of writing one in the first place?

ahmed_foula
Community Member

I would like to let you know that I will personally take a legal action against Upwork regarding this issue. Thank you for raising this Dan R. I truly appreciate the time all community members took to make this thread worth posting in. Keep the great work up.

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3886381b
Community Member

OMG! I have the same trouble! Thanks God I've found this topic as I didn't understand what was going on! Smiley Frustrated Yesterday I posted a job to find a freelancer. Today I saw only 24 proposals and 64 proposals are in archive! I didn't touch anything! 

 

And as far as I understood now I must waste my time (to tell the truth I don't have much of it) for unarchiving proposals? What a nonsense! Upwork, come on! I registered here to find the right candidate quickly and not to waste my time! I really disappointed by your service!


Samuel A wrote:

OMG! I have the same trouble! Thanks God I've found this topic as I didn't understand what was going on! Smiley Frustrated Yesterday I posted a job to find a freelancer. Today I saw only 24 proposals and 64 proposals are in archive! I didn't touch anything! 

 


Are the archived ones poor fits for your job?

What about those who are not archived?

Did you ask for help from a talent specialist?

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"Where darkness shines like dazzling light"   —William Ashbless

No, I didn't ask for help

Samuel, thanks for taking the time to post here. UW's business model prioritizes client convenience, which as a general rule we FLs accept and work with. Regarding this particular issue, both clients and FLs are being negatively affected and so far, UW insists that all is well. So, they need to hear from as many clients as possible before they'll consider resolving the problem.

petra_r
Community Member


Samuel A wrote:

No, I didn't ask for help


 Were you informed that they are "helping" you, at least?

 

The Director of that program posted here the other day (and hasn't been back since) and said:

 

 

Steve H wrote: Proposals are not always archived, but when they are, clients are now clearly notified. Since freelancers and clients alike have shared feedback on this thread about archiving, we’ve updated the messaging sent to a client when a proposal is archived. We've made it more clear that we've narrowed their list of active proposals and point them to where they can view the full list of proposals that were submitted for their job.

 

Can you confirm that you were:

  • clearly notified about the fact that they hid most of your proposals from you?
  • That you were sent messages when a proposal was archived.
  • that it was all made clear to you and that you were clearly pointed to where you can view the full list of proposals

We'd love to hear the answer to that!

 


Samuel A wrote:

No, I didn't ask for help


Sam,

Is a talent specialist doing this or does it appear to be automated by some sort of algorithm? 

Could someone from Upwork please answer a question for me.

 

I had a client of mine send me an invite. I noticed that she also posted it publicly. She's been with me for about 4-5 years and spent somewhere around $50,000 with me. I always bid over her budget, but she always hires me. It occurred to me that some Talent Agent or algorithm might filter me out over that, so I messaged her in the workroom to tell her to look in archived proposals if she doesn't see me.

 

It's a $3300 job, so it's significant to me. Could someone please verify that they won't hide my proposals especially since I was invited? I would realllly rage if I lost this gig over this stuff.

mtngigi
Community Member


@lysis10 wrote:

Could someone from Upwork please answer a question for me.

 

I had a client of mine send me an invite. I noticed that she also posted it publicly. She's been with me for about 4-5 years and spent somewhere around $50,000 with me. I always bid over her budget, but she always hires me. It occurred to me that some Talent Agent or algorithm might filter me out over that, so I messaged her in the workroom to tell her to look in archived proposals if she doesn't see me.

 

It's a $3300 job, so it's significant to me. Could someone please verify that they won't hide my proposals especially since I was invited? I would realllly rage if I lost this gig over this stuff.

 

Yeah, could someone/anyone from Upwork please respond to Jen's question, or are you overrun with crickets again?  Geez Louise.


O Steve Holm from Upwork, where art thou who does not hear our laments?

-----------
"Where darkness shines like dazzling light"   —William Ashbless

I have only now read this thread.

The past months have been so slow - and I'm one of those people who almost always bids higher...

I have no words. What a mess.

re: lamenting

 

When the Steve Holm appeared in all his glory, and all the exalted Executives with him, then did he sit on the throne of his glory. Before him all the freelancers were gathered, and he did separate the Forum Nuisances from the others, as a shepherd separates the goats from the sheep.

 

@ René :  We are the goats.

mtngigi
Community Member


Samuel A wrote:

OMG! I have the same trouble! Thanks God I've found this topic as I didn't understand what was going on! Smiley Frustrated Yesterday I posted a job to find a freelancer. Today I saw only 24 proposals and 64 proposals are in archive! I didn't touch anything! 

 

And as far as I understood now I must waste my time (to tell the truth I don't have much of it) for unarchiving proposals? What a nonsense! Upwork, come on! I registered here to find the right candidate quickly and not to waste my time! I really disappointed by your service!


 

Samuel,

 

I'm happy you found this thread as well. The more clients who take the time to chime in, the better. Because Upwork doesn't give a fig what it's freelancers have to say or feel about the matter. 64 archived proposals ... let's all chew on that for awhile.

hodgesh
Community Member

This thread was 15 or 16 pages long yesterday. Now I see only four pages. What happened to all those posts?


Heaven H wrote:

This thread was 15 or 16 pages long yesterday. Now I see only four pages. What happened to all those posts?


 Your post is appearing on page 17, in my view.

Another Thank You @ Samuel A.

 

@ Steve H., we would really appreciate your explanation for the differences between what you describe as SOP and what buyers are reporting as actuality.


Heaven H wrote:

This thread was 15 or 16 pages long yesterday. Now I see only four pages. What happened to all those posts?


 ______________________________

They don't like what they read, and so they think if they remove a few posts, it will all go away and eventually die down. I don't think that's going to happen this time. Our businesses, however small, are being compromised. The ToS is compromised and is not to be believed. 

 

It seems that one criteria to auto archive a proposal is that it is too far over budget.

 

When it becomes clear which criteria cause proposals to be auto archived, probably the only thing that will be achieved is that freelancers will become increasingly creative in their way of writing proposals, e.g. by bidding under budget and then making clear in the proposal that the bid is a placeholder so they avoid the auto archive filter - or the bid will be changed once the client proceeds to interview - or prior to acceptance of a contract. Basically, freelancers are likely to find some workaround to circumvent the algorithm which then becomes worthless and neither clients, nor freelancers nor Upwork are any better off, on the contrary, it may likely lead to an increased number of complaints.

 

Furthermore, an algorithm second guessing what the client wants is incredibly inappropriate as Upwork is filtering out freelancers that may be just what the client was hoping to find. Unless Upwork wants to be yet another platform for cheap labour, I think this auto archiving of proposals needs to be rethought and that it can't happen soon enough. Besides, one would think it would be in Upwork's interest to generate more revenue rather than let an algorithm eliminate it.

 

As others have pointed out, it might also be more productive to weed out the numerous profiles that shouldn't be on Upwork.

 

 

anima9
Community Member

I always overbid because I don't want the client to think I'm okay with the low budget they proposed. This method used to work wonders, as clients will get curious about why I bid so high until recently.

Man, this is bad for freelancers. If this was manually done, the TS may have biases such as choosing people they know in place of actual capable contractors.
yitwail
Community Member

Earlier, Steve Holm of Upwork stated that Talent Specialists only work on approximately 5% of jobs posted, but he didn’t say if that’s 5% across categories or if some categories have greater than 5% Talent Specialist involvement. Regardless, I would find it useful to know what percentage of my proposals were archived by Talent Specialists in the last 30 or 90 days and how that compares to my freelancer peers. Then I wouldn’t have to wonder if I have Talent Specialists to thank for my recent lack of bidding success. Also, in the interest of fairness, any proposals archived by Talent Specialists should be excluded from decisions to ban freelancers on the basis of too many unsuccessful proposals, in my opinion.
__________________________________________________
"No good deed goes unpunished." -- Clare Boothe Luce

John K wrote:
Also, in the interest of fairness, any proposals archived by Talent Specialists should be excluded from decisions to ban freelancers on the basis of too many unsuccessful proposals, in my opinion.

For the sake of fairness, I also suggest to return half the number of connects (usually 1 connect) used to submit the proposal that has been archived, and collect them back ONLY when the client unarchive that proposal.

⋰⋱⋰⋱⋰⋱⋰⋱⋰⋱⋰⋱⋰⋱

Whenever they archive a proposal a puppy dies :' (

Bidding above a client's budget has been discussed repeatedly by successful contractors as a winning strategy: Contractors win, Upwork wins, and serious clients who want professional work and are willing to pay professional rates for it win.

Upwork elsewhere encourages us to raise our rates, albeit sometimes to unrealistic levels. Do the "talent specialists" think part of their mandate is to keep rates low? Is this yet another instance of Upwork's right hand not knowing what its left hand is doing?


Douglas Michael M wrote:

Do the "talent specialists" think part of their mandate is to keep rates low? 


If they are paid $3/hour by Upwork, they may think it's the norm and that $6/hour is absurdly high. So imagine when they see two or even three digit hourlies. They must think it's a kind of joke.

-----------
"Where darkness shines like dazzling light"   —William Ashbless
mousseva
Community Member

They're making it impossible for you to state your value... Why even have the option to bid more then? Just state it clearly that we're cattle and we don't have a say.
mousseva
Community Member

What are the criteria for deleting a proposal?

I don't believe that it has ever been said that proposals are being deleted.  They may be archived, but apparently all proposals are available for the client to review.

petra_r
Community Member


Teodora S wrote:

What are the criteria for deleting archive a proposal?


They don't "delete" - they "archive."  We'd all love to know the answer to that.

 

**Edited for Community Guidelines**

 

 

 

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