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Dan's avatar
Dan R Community Member

My proposals are archived!

Who can explain me why the half of my new proposals are archived? Today I posted a job to find a good freelancer for my project, but an hour later I discovered that the most of the proposals are in the archive list. What's going on? I even didn't have an opportunity to review the freelancers. Upwork promotes some freelancers and hides others?

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Lena's avatar
Lena E Community Member

Hi Everyone,

We apologize for the delay, but understand we may not always be able to address posts with urgency, especially over the weekend or holidays. We understand and have read your feedback and grievances. We are glad that many of you are pleased with the Talent Services decision to no longer archive proposals. At the same time, we will not be reimbursing connects. These proposals were archived, not deleted, which means clients still had full access to all submitted proposals and were able to see the total amount of proposals listed in each section.  

 

Rest assured, archiving will not be replaced by any new process. Proposals would only appear  in the Archived list if the client or freelancer took action on the proposal. Talent Specialists will only be shortlisting proposals, as they have done. The Shortlisted list highlights proposals that Talent Specialists want to share with clients, this separate list which does not affect or touch proposals in the All Proposals list.

 

ATS Navigation.png

The All Proposals tab includes all active proposals. Proposals withdrawn by freelancers or clients, and declined invites are not included in this active list, those would be found in the Archived list. The All Proposals list displays Best match as the default sorting order. However, clients can sort the proposal list as they see fit: Newest to Oldest, Highest to Lowest rate, etc. The total amount of proposals in a tab is always visible at the top alongside the navigation link.

 

 

ATS Sort.png

 

As for Talent Specialists in general, they will continue improving their services and training. We recognize the comments shared in the Community. Feedback about irrelevant invites is shared with their team and actioned when necessary. Obviously, we wouldn’t keep or push a program that wasn’t working or producing results. Currently, Talent Services assists with around 5% of all jobs on the platform and these jobs have a higher fill rate as well as end with high success rates and great feedback. And as mentioned before, both clients and freelancer are given an option to opt out of the service.

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328 REPLIES 328
Teodora's avatar
Teodora S Community Member

I'm just wondering if they start archiving them after the job has received 20-30 proposals? Just wondering if it makes sense to apply to such jobs at all.
Teodora's avatar
Teodora S Community Member

Thoughts? Anyone?

Wendy's avatar
Wendy C Community Member

We have for asked for exact wording and screenshots which Steve H said was forthcoming. 

Seeing these will answer at least some of the questions.

ETA on these, please.

Jennifer's avatar
Jennifer M Community Member

Thought I'd come back and give an update since I contributed to the paranoia.

 

Client just sent me an offer, so she did see my proposal (someone actually bid higher than me too and it showed up at least in the range that I could see). Crisis averted. I was worried but looks like it worked out ok.

 

So at least we know over budget isn't always a factor or I'd be in big doodoo if that were true. 

Wendy's avatar
Wendy C Community Member

Jennifer and/or Petra, you might have some insight into this:  Are invites - either buyer initiated or U. generated - subject to the whim and fancy of incompetent 'talent specialists'?

Rene's avatar
Rene K Community Member

I think as long as no TS are involved, you're fine. If they get involved, then all bets are off.

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"Where darkness shines like dazzling light"   —William Ashbless
Jennifer's avatar
Jennifer M Community Member

My invites are down, so I haven't gotten many in the last few weeks. I think the last few from TA I've had to decline.

 

I don't do well when TAs invite me. Maybe it's my approach, but not sure. But then again, I'm not sure I won much in the open marketplace last year. Probably in the beginning of the year, but according to my stats as of about the first of the month I only sent 2 open marketplace bids within the last 90 days

 

Actually, I think I did speak with one maybe like 2 months ago. I'm not sure but looking back the person I was talking to was looking for someone for her client. I thought I was talking to an agency but maybe it was a TA. As much as I wanted to take the job (probably could have charged $150/hour because I know she was having a hard time finding someone with experience), it was too far out of my skill set. I don't even think I could bs my way through an article lol. So, I did get a decline message but she chatted with me a bit and I thought of 1000 different ways I could take their money but mannnn there was no way I'd be able to remotely come close to what they wanted so I had to be honest and tell them that I'm probably not a good fit.

Petra's avatar
Petra R Community Member


Wendy C wrote:

Jennifer and/or Petra, you might have some insight into this:  Are invites - either buyer initiated or U. generated - subject to the whim and fancy of incompetent 'talent specialists'?


 Sorry, no insight at all. This whole mess caught me as much by stunned surprise as it did you.

 

Petra's avatar
Petra R Community Member


Wendy C wrote:

We have for asked for exact wording and screenshots which Steve H said was forthcoming.


 He did (say that "exact wording and screenshots were forthcoming"?) Where?

He's not been back since he posted that "response."

 

I very much doubt that any Upwork employee would post "exact wording and screenshots."

Reinier's avatar
Reinier B Community Member


Petra R wrote:

Wendy C wrote:

We have for asked for exact wording and screenshots which Steve H said was forthcoming.


 He did (say that "exact wording and screenshots were forthcoming"?) Where?

He's not been back since he posted that "response."

 

I very much doubt that any Upwork employee would post "exact wording and screenshots."


 I agree. Many of us would immediately point out that the messages are poorly worded, and I don't think they would want to hear that on top of the overall uproar about the whole talent specialist thing.  

 

Rene's avatar
Rene K Community Member


Danny R wrote:

This is how Upwork fights against the truth. Just want evrybody to know


You cannot post correspondence from Upwork here. And since this community has no idea what happened, what you did or did not, we won't take sides about the action taken by Upwork on your account.

 

Sorry bud.

 

 

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"Where darkness shines like dazzling light"   —William Ashbless
Petra's avatar
Petra R Community Member


Danny R wrote:

I'm Dan R. and I started this thread. After that they just blocked me. 


 They didn't block you because you posted in this thread.

They suspended your client account because something about your job post(s) was not in line with the terms of service.

Ahmed's avatar
Ahmed F Community Member


Petra R wrote:

Danny R wrote:

I'm Dan R. and I started this thread. After that they just blocked me. 


 They didn't block you because you posted in this thread.

They suspended your client account because something about your job post(s) was not in line with the terms of service.


 For me, both reasons are valid!

⋰⋱⋰⋱⋰⋱⋰⋱⋰⋱⋰⋱⋰⋱
Petra's avatar
Petra R Community Member


Danny R wrote:

I just tried to find a good mobile and web developer for my projects.


 Under an almost  certainly not real name, from a "known for funny business / scams / spam / viruses" email domain, with no verified payment method...

Virginia's avatar
Virginia F Community Member


Petra R wrote:

Danny R wrote:

I just tried to find a good mobile and web developer for my projects.


 Under an almost  certainly not real name, from a "known for funny business / scams / spam / viruses" email domain, with no verified payment method...


Perhaps ... but I hope "Dan's" latest posts don't derail this whole thing, because at least, thanks to the OP, we were informed of this odious practice.

Petra's avatar
Petra R Community Member

How about we find a way to make this whole thing more palatable and fair to all involved? (If we can't throw the whole thing out?)

 

Ideas:

  1. In an ideal world, get rid of the scheme altogether
  2. If that is not possible:
  • Mark jobs where a TS is involved clearly, with some icon such as the Enterprise jobs or featured jobs have, so we know that those people are messing with the proposals.

ts assist.jpg

  • Add a metric to the "activity for this job" numbers, so in addition to "invites sent, hires, interviewing and so on, let's have "archived by client" and "archived by TS" numbers

archived by.jpg

  • On a freelancer's Proposals page, separate active and archived proposals under a separate header, like so, again with a note if declined by client or TS:

arch.jpg

 

Nichola's avatar
Nichola L Community Member


Virginia F wrote:

Petra R wrote:

Danny R wrote:

I just tried to find a good mobile and web developer for my projects.


 Under an almost  certainly not real name, from a "known for funny business / scams / spam / viruses" email domain, with no verified payment method...


Perhaps ... but I hope "Dan's" latest posts don't derail this whole thing, because at least, thanks to the OP, we were informed of this odious practice.


 _______________________

 

Agreed. Whatever the reasons for the OP's suspension, doesn't alter the fact that freelancers' proposals are being arbitrarily archived before clients have had the chance to assess them and make  their own judgements, and I would like to bet that, in these cases, connects are not returned. 

Added to which, in another thread on this subject: https://community.upwork.com/t5/Announcements/Update-on-Talent-Specialists-Program/m-p/465332#M24756 Steve Holm states: 

 

"I know that there have been a number of comments about the relevancy of some of these invites.  It is not our goal to send invites that are a waste of both the freelancers’ and clients’ time.  Our team relies heavily on the skills listed in the job post and skills listed on freelancers’ profiles when sending invites. Have mistakes been made, certainly. However, this is a small percentage of the total invites sent. Our program has been very successful in contributing to the fill-rates of jobs on Upwork and with assisting new and existing clients.

 

That being said, we strive to do better. We hear your concerns and are making changes to address them."

 

The only thing that appears to be true is that a minority of freelancers have to suffer for the good of the whole ...

And time is being wasted by clients when they are presented with freelancers who do not match their requirements, and freelancers, who are obliged to reply to jobs they know they are not going to get or decline them: All  because a TS has clearly not done his or her homework. I would love to know, when I get an unsuitable TS-driven invite, how many suitable proposals they bin that a client might be interested in. 

I wonder how many clients have received this dysfunctional service, and without complaining, have simply gone elsewhere to hire a freelancer. 

 

As to making changes to address the concerns - clearly unheard - if changes have been made, they have certainly not been for the better. 

Phyllis's avatar
Phyllis G Community Member


Virginia F wrote:

Petra R wrote:

Danny R wrote:

I just tried to find a good mobile and web developer for my projects.


 Under an almost  certainly not real name, from a "known for funny business / scams / spam / viruses" email domain, with no verified payment method...


Perhaps ... but I hope "Dan's" latest posts don't derail this whole thing, because at least, thanks to the OP, we were informed of this odious practice.


 This latest episode is generating a big dose of irony for a Monday.

Rene's avatar
Rene K Community Member

Problem: taking into consideration everything surrounding the OP, "Dan", and the questionable .ru domain he's involved with, I'm now even wondering how much truth there is in his initial post...

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"Where darkness shines like dazzling light"   —William Ashbless
Scott's avatar
Scott B Community Member


Rene K wrote:

Problem: taking into consideration everything surrounding the OP, "Dan", and the questionable .ru domain he's involved with, I'm now even wondering how much truth there is in his initial post...


 It actually doesn't matter. We could throw out Dan's posts entirely and just focus on the details Steve from UW provided and everything else remains germane. UW has admitted to this practice and the details surrounding it. That is the true focus of the opposing points made.

Petra's avatar
Petra R Community Member


Scott B wrote:

Rene K wrote:

Problem: taking into consideration everything surrounding the OP, "Dan", and the questionable .ru domain he's involved with, I'm now even wondering how much truth there is in his initial post...


 It actually doesn't matter. We could throw out Dan's posts entirely and just focus on the details Steve from UW provided


 Exactly.

Maria's avatar
Maria T Community Member


Scott B wrote:

 

 It actually doesn't matter. We could throw out Dan's posts entirely and just focus on the details Steve from UW provided and everything else remains germane. UW has admitted to this practice and the details surrounding it. That is the true focus of the opposing points made. 

 Anyway, although Dan (or Danny) may be questionable, we should not forget that there were three other clients, @Sarah H., @Samuel A. and @Tanika T. (this I do not know for sure she was a client), who denounced the same problem.

Virginia's avatar
Virginia F Community Member


Rene K wrote:

Problem: taking into consideration everything surrounding the OP, "Dan", and the questionable .ru domain he's involved with, I'm now even wondering how much truth there is in his initial post...


it's not like this is the first time we're hearing about how the "talent specialists" consistently get it wrong ... but this is the first time we're hearing about this program (and it's cons) from actual clients (aside from the OP). And the trashing our bids thing. That has been an eye-opener.

Virginia's avatar
Virginia F Community Member

The plot sickens. This thread makes me almost as miserable as I feel when watching the daily antics of our fake president.

Wendy's avatar
Wendy C Community Member

Thumbs Up and Kudos to Scott for his astute comment.