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Name on a received invoice?

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Egor S Member Since: Oct 19, 2015
171 of 237

@Margarete M. wrote:

@Egor S wrote:

Hi Joachim,

 

Thank you for your informative posts. You mentioned in your previous posts that elance provides enough documents / information in case both parties are from EU. What are the process and applicable taxes (if freelancer and client do their business via elance) in case the client is outside of EU (the USA for example) and freelance is from EU (Germany for example)?


There is no legal way of invoicing without all necessary information about the client. We discuss this issue here for months. Upwork leaves freelancers and clients alone with this problem only promising indefinite changes at some indefinite future date.

Yeah, I noticed that while reading threads :/ 
I was also asking about the experience with such a thing at elance, maybe someone had an experience there. From what I've read elance seems to be more prepared for EU taxation. 

 

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Joachim M Member Since: Mar 23, 2015
172 of 237

@Egor S wrote:

Hi Joachim,

 

Thank you for your informative posts. You mentioned in your previous posts that elance provides enough documents / information in case both parties are from EU. What are the process and applicable taxes (if freelancer and client do their business via elance) in case the client is outside of EU (the USA for example) and freelance is from EU (Germany for example)?


Hi Egor, with the freelancer in Europe and the client in the US (or any other country not member of the EU) no VAT is to be charged. On Elance most clients allow for their full address to be displayed on the invoice issued by Elance. I have to say most, as Elance does permit clients to hide their details and only their handle to be displayed. At the start of a fixed price job you can view the proforma invoice issued for the funding of escrow. If the information displayed doesn't suffice you can ask your client to provide all necessary details (the full address is sufficient). 

 

Problem is, Elance is being wound down, no new clients can register and soon now new jobs can be posted. 

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Egor S Member Since: Oct 19, 2015
173 of 237

@Joachim M wrote:

@Egor S wrote:

Hi Joachim,

 

Thank you for your informative posts. You mentioned in your previous posts that elance provides enough documents / information in case both parties are from EU. What are the process and applicable taxes (if freelancer and client do their business via elance) in case the client is outside of EU (the USA for example) and freelance is from EU (Germany for example)?


Hi Egor, with the freelancer in Europe and the client in the US (or any other country not member of the EU) no VAT is to be charged. On Elance most clients allow for their full address to be displayed on the invoice issued by Elance. I have to say most, as Elance does permit clients to hide their details and only their handle to be displayed. At the start of a fixed price job you can view the proforma invoice issued for the funding of escrow. If the information displayed doesn't suffice you can ask your client to provide all necessary details (the full address is sufficient). 

 

Problem is, Elance is being wound down, no new clients can register and soon now new jobs can be posted. 


 Kek, what we are supposed to do when elance will be closed? :/

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@Egor S wrote:

 Kek, what we are supposed to do when elance will be closed? :/


I will insist to issue my own invoices in Upwork adding VAT where necessary. Therefore I will need all address details of the client. If the client will not accept this I will not work for him. Unfortunately it is much additional work with the invoices. We now pay 10% instead of 8.75% in Elance and have additional work with the invoices. I would not do this for a very small job and would then prefer to abstain from the business. I only speak from a German point of view. The situation might be different for freelancers from the United States. Maybe everything is fine for them, I do not know.

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Wim J Member Since: Nov 24, 2014
175 of 237

Margarete M wrote

I will insist to issue my own invoices in Upwork adding VAT where necessary. Therefore I will need all address details of the client. If the client will not accept this I will not work for him. Unfortunately it is much additional work with the invoices. We now pay 10% instead of 8.75% in Elance and have additional work with the invoices. I would not do this for a very small job and would then prefer to abstain from the business. I only speak from a German point of view. The situation might be different for freelancers from the United States. Maybe everything is fine for them, I do not know.


 I agree, the freelancer should receive a copy of the automatic invoice that is given in the freelancer name to the client.

But it can be easily solved, just ask at the end of each quarter or the job done, the copy of the invoices given to your client by Upwork.  I do not see any problem for a business client not to give you YOUR invoices.

 

The only problem will be still the invoice number. What should be your number.

And all what you write by hand on that invoice, should again a copy be given to your client. A lot of work that Upwork should solve.

 

I hope they are listening.

 

There switch from Odesk to Upwork is understandable but some parts are still of the old Odesk. as the invoice numbers.

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Joachim M Member Since: Mar 23, 2015
176 of 237

@Egor S wrote:

@Joachim M wrote:

@Egor S wrote:

Hi Joachim,

 

Thank you for your informative posts. You mentioned in your previous posts that elance provides enough documents / information in case both parties are from EU. What are the process and applicable taxes (if freelancer and client do their business via elance) in case the client is outside of EU (the USA for example) and freelance is from EU (Germany for example)?


Hi Egor, with the freelancer in Europe and the client in the US (or any other country not member of the EU) no VAT is to be charged. On Elance most clients allow for their full address to be displayed on the invoice issued by Elance. I have to say most, as Elance does permit clients to hide their details and only their handle to be displayed. At the start of a fixed price job you can view the proforma invoice issued for the funding of escrow. If the information displayed doesn't suffice you can ask your client to provide all necessary details (the full address is sufficient). 

 

Problem is, Elance is being wound down, no new clients can register and soon now new jobs can be posted. 


 Kek, what we are supposed to do when elance will be closed? :/


I'm doing the same Margarete suggested, write my own invoices. At present I simply quote including VAT and tell the client I can reduce the price accordingly if he either provides his VAT ID incl. address (resident in an EU member state) or only his full address (resident outside the EU). I don't check the address if outside the EU and if within the EU I merely check the VAT ID provided with VIES. I turn down jobs from EU members without VAT ID as I would then have to charge VAT and (possibly starting January) pay it in the client's country of residence. A no go for me, I'm not going to deal with 28 different tax offices.

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@Joachim M wrote:

I'm doing the same Margarete suggested, write my own invoices. At present I simply quote including VAT and tell the client I can reduce the price accordingly if he either provides his VAT ID incl. address (resident in an EU member state) or only his full address (resident outside the EU). I don't check the address if outside the EU and if within the EU I merely check the VAT ID provided with VIES. I turn down jobs from EU members without VAT ID as I would then have to charge VAT and (possibly starting January) pay it in the client's country of residence. A no go for me, I'm not going to deal with 28 different tax offices.


To be honest, I mainly follow Joachim's advice. He explained before how he handles the invoice problem. In the beginning I had absolutely no idea how to behave. At the end of the day we will see if the tax authorities will be happy with this solution. However, as Upwork charges the invoice to the client, I think there should be a remark on the invoice that it has already been paid to Upwork?? How do you handle this, Joachim?

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Egor S Member Since: Oct 19, 2015
178 of 237

Hi Margarete and Joachim, thank you for your answers. Just one more question appeared in my mind. In what currency (dollars or euro) do you issue invoices?

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@Egor S wrote:

Hi Margarete and Joachim, thank you for your answers. Just one more question appeared in my mind. In what currency (dollars or euro) do you issue invoices?


Egor, in my case the bid was in USD, the client from UK had to pay USD, in my invoice I converted USD in EUR and added to the invoice that the amount already had been paid. I do not know, if this is the best way to deal with the invoice and so I do not recommend anybody to do the same.

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Joachim M Member Since: Mar 23, 2015
180 of 237

@Egor S wrote:

Hi Margarete and Joachim, thank you for your answers. Just one more question appeared in my mind. In what currency (dollars or euro) do you issue invoices?


The bid being in US$ I invoice in US$. Direct clients, outside of Upwork, I invoice in either Euro, US$ or GBP (UK clients). This will be agreed with the client beforehand. All direct clients resident in the EU pay by bank transfer anyway, it's the cheapest way. Everybody else pays by PayPal or Skrill. 

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