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cupidmedia
Community Member

New "Upwork room" message feature?

I guess this is new, but I couldn't see an announcement for it:

 

Upwork recommendations channel.png

 

I'm not a big fan. I know who my freelancers are and what jobs I need people for, I don't need a bot telling me every time one of the 100+ freelancers I've ever hired gets a good review. Can I just leave the message room?

ACCEPTED SOLUTION

Hi All,

 

I would like to confirm that the test has ended and it won't be rolled out. 

 

Once again, thank you all for your feedback and sharing your concerns with us.

~ Goran
Upwork

View solution in original post

50 REPLIES 50
lysis10
Community Member

lol oh dear this is terrible

AveryO
Community Manager
Community Manager

Hi Jennifer, 

We frequently try out new features -- both big and small -- by conducting testing with a small group of users. This is the standard practice for most companies, and tests can sometimes last weeks or just a few days. In order to not impact or skew test results, we typically try not to share details about tests while they are ongoing. While we can’t address your questions about this test, we do want and appreciate your feedback. I will be glad to pass your comments on as we work to determine which potential features our customers like and don’t like.

 

Thanks you for your understanding!


~ Avery
Upwork

Hi Avery,

 

my biggest feedback is to make it clear to the client how they can opt-out of this if they want, by leaving the chanel or otherwise. I'm not clear, if I leave the channel, if that will stop me from getting similar messages in future.

Hi Jennifer and everyone else on the thread. Thanks for sharing your feedback on this. 

Jennifer, If you would not like to receive these messages you can opt-out by leaving the room. 

 

This feature, albeit a test, highlights freelancers to clients they've worked with in the past by sharing good reviews they received. Nothing shared is confidential. Only freelancers who have public profiles are included and the reviews we share are already displayed publicly on your profile. 

 

I understand your concern Jennifer, but some clients who may work with 100s of freelancers may forget the name of a great freelancer they worked with in the past. Or be reminded of an awesome work product they received and by receiving the messages from us it may prompt them to re-engage with that freelancer.  There have been several instances where I have searched through the list of freelancers I worked with in the past to find someone who I knew would be great for a new project I needed someone for.  This feature could help remediate that daunting task.   

 

At the same time, all of the feedback shared is very helpful and appreciated. We gather your comments on these tests and new features and share them with our engineers and designers on a daily basis. Thank you for taking the time to voice your concerns with us.

 

-Lena 

 

Untitled

If Upwork wants to remind clients of great freelancers they've worked with in the past, why can't you simply send occasional emails to do so? How hard could that be?

 

Isn't it apparent that no one (clients and freelancers included) is crazy about the latest tests being applied to profiles, especially when they come as a complete surprise. Clients are unhappy enough with the changes that have affected them, as evidenced by posts in the client forum. Why this? We cannot afford to lose more clients over changes Upwork believes are good ideas ... when they're usually not.


Lena E wrote:

Hi Jennifer and everyone else on the thread. Thanks for sharing your feedback on this. 

Jennifer, If you would not like to receive these messages you can opt-out by leaving the room. 


Can freelancers opt-out as well?

As I said, I find this feature (and many other features Upwork decides to implement to "help" freelancers and clients relationships) not only useless but detrimental to my work, and would greatly appreciate having the possibility of not bother my previous clients. 

Lena,  any good freelancer knows to stay in touch with past clients.  The FLer also knows when and how to do this successfully.  Upwork does not. For starters, algorithms don't know the needs, interests, schedules, of the client.  A good FLer does.  That said, the ONLY rehires are good FLers.  And we are far more adept at that than Upwork is.

 

Equating this nonsense with what is on portfolios is like comparing hippos to butterflies.  Total garbage and a lame as heck attempt at justificating extraordinarly poor judgements and decision making on marketing's part.

 

1. Upwork is spamming clients ... which lead to # 2. Upwork is driving good clients away.  In our opinion(s), Upwork is on very shaky legal and ethical grounds ... at best. 

Thanks for the additional information Lena. As you can see, it hasn't really made any of the freelancers in this thread feel at ease.

 

Can you also please address my second question here, where I ask why I'm getting recommendations that are completely irrelevant to my account? I understand, to a point, why someone at Upwork might have thought that "helpfully" reminding clients about freelancers they have worked with in the past might be a good idea. But what about the irrelevant recommendation?

 

I'd also like to know, like Amanda, how the recommendations are chosen. Are the only contracts and reviews highlighted the ones that ended with good feedback (preferably from both sides)? Or could a contract that went south end up in this chat room also?

Lena - Please rethink this. 

 

As others have pointed out, it's part of a freelancer's job to keep in touch with good clients who are likely to have repeat work.  But letting them know every time we get a good review?  That's the best way to NOT get repeat work that I can think of, short of totally screwing up a job.

 

You said this was aimed to help people who work with 100s of freelancers.  I can't see how a constant scroll of review notifications for 100s of people could be anything but useless spam.

 

If UW does move forward with this one, please let freelancers opt-out. You could call the option "Don't annoy my clients, thanks."

 

Thanks...

 

Wes

 

Avery, please relay this up the chain:

 

If a test is done with a small group of users, then any conclusions are being drawn from a small sample. If UW is looking at automated metrics, then a small sample doesn't seem too reliable. If UW is focusing on reactions from the test subjects, then why not simply ask them instead of interfering with their work? The cavalier manner in which UW runs tests that potentially have real-world consequences for FLs and clients is appalling.

A surprise every day!

But, what nonsense is this?
Why does a client have to know what, when, how, and why I am doing if that is not the job for which he has hired me?

This is a FLAGRANT INTROMISION in our work.


Avery O wrote:

Hi Jennifer, 

We frequently try out new features -- both big and small -- by conducting testing with a small group of users. This is the standard practice for most companies, and tests can sometimes last weeks or just a few days. In order to not impact or skew test results, we typically try not to share details about tests while they are ongoing. While we can’t address your questions about this test, we do want and appreciate your feedback. I will be glad to pass your comments on as we work to determine which potential features our customers like and don’t like.

 

Thanks you for your understanding!


______________________________

 

Avery,

I know this is not your initiative and that you are only the messenger. However, your reply  gives me cold chills - a sort of  "This is going to hurt you more than it's going to hurt us" message. It is one thing Upwork using its freelancers as guinea pigs but goes beyond the line when experimenting with clients. This is truly stupid.  The OP has spent thousands on this site and would not have made this comment without good cause.

 

Big companies might "make tests", but big companies should not act as if they are despotic rulers of the world who can whip people (in this case, freelancers and clients) into submission to suit their arcane methods.

shetani
Community Member


Avery O wrote:

This is the standard practice for most companies


Testing beta features with small subset of users - yes.

Not telling the users they're part of a beta test and then not providing them with details about the feature they're testing - only for Upwork.

 


Avery O wrote:

In order to not impact or skew test results, we typically try not to share details about tests while they are ongoing. While we can’t address your questions about this test [...]

I'm sorry Avery but that's just ridiculous and I'm not sure if you're actually replying to Jennifer's original post here or if you're referring to something that was privately shared between you.

 

Jennifer's question was can she opt-out / can she leave the room. The answer is either a yes or a no (but let's be real, there's only ever one answer to this question). How could you possibly impact or skew the results of the test by saying "no you can't opt out"? Or by announcing the feature to people, telling them "hey we're testing this new thing and you're part of our testing group", or by explaining to them what the feature is and what it does? Are you testing a person's psychological aptitude at navigating around lightning strikes or a feature?

gilbert-phyllis
Community Member

This is pretty awful. I don't want my clients getting spammed about what how I'm doing with other clients. This is yet another way of interfering in FL-client relationships. UW needs to stop butting in, please and thank you.

This is dreadful.  My clients have no business knowing about my work with other clients.

All my clients want to know is that I do a good job for them.  The world gets enough SPAM as it is.

 

Take this test and DUMP IT.  Then fire the noob who came up with concept.

 

And, by the way, did it not occur to you that this is perilously close to infringing on NDAs?

I am a Certified Public Accountant and it is unprofessional and probably contrary to the published ethics of my profession for stangers to know, without my consent, what I am doing for other clients.

 

Kill this "feature".

Joseph M. C. ,P.C., CPA/ABV
cupidmedia
Community Member

The more I think about this, the less I like it. Not least because I'm now getting completely irrelavant "recommendations":
Upwork recommendations channel2.png

I have never posted a job called "Head of UXUICRO". I've posted hundreds of jobs on Upwork, and more than 99% of them have been translation-related - I can count on one hand the number of projects that haven't been translation projects. Why am I getting spammed with completely irrelevant "recommendations"?

 

And from a freelancer point of view, I can see how this would be alarming. Sure, information like their feedback history is visible on their profile. But that's different to shoving it in the face of past clients.

 

This feature needs, at minimum, more thought. Maybe opt-in options for clients and freelancers alike.

Upwork, concerns have been raised that bring into question the legality of this as well as legitimate and valid client concerns.  It seems to us (and yes, I am speaking for all who have commented) that while you are in a rush to dump this nonsense on us and then to try and sell us on it ....when legitimate issues have been raised you tend to emulate an ostrich.

 

We would appreciate an acknowledgment - not platitudes - about our concerns.

 

And I will continue to rant ...

Wendy,

 

Well said. I often sign not only NDAs but also Non-Compete Agreements with clients. I don't want my past clients getting upset because I'm working with a new client that they mistakenly believe is a competitor, or whose veeblefetzer division is a competitor, but I'm only working with the foofram division. If new clients are being identified, or the nature of the work hinted at, this is a catastrophe. I promise my clients discretion, meaning I don't let anyone know that ABC is my client without ABC's express permission. Under no conditions do I want XYZ wasting ABC's time with a back-channel communication about me without ABC's permission.


Wendy C wrote:

Upwork, concerns have been raised that bring into question the legality of this as well as legitimate and valid client concerns.  It seems to us (and yes, I am speaking for all who have commented) that while you are in a rush to dump this nonsense on us and then to try and sell us on it ....when legitimate issues have been raised you tend to emulate an ostrich.

 

We would appreciate an acknowledgment - not platitudes - about our concerns.

 

And I will continue to rant ...


I find the fact that UpWork continues in its attemps to emulate Amazon in terms of non-stop marketing of freelancers really disturbing. I can't think of anything more inappropriate and unprofessional than UpWork harassing my clients with reports of what I'm doing on other people's projects, not to mention the potential for confidentiality problems. These are valid concens and it would have been better to run this one by some freelancers (and some clients?) before even investing time and money into implementing it.
 
My clients are busy people. They signed on to the site to get things done. This is not an online store and attemptions to push it at clients as one will have negative rather than positive effects on client perceptions (and there are already enough things happening on this site with the potential to put clients off).





I'm wondering if the legal implications of this test was run by the same lawyers that drafted the updated ToS. 

 


Renata S wrote:

 
My clients are busy people. They signed on to the site get things done. This is not an online store and attemptions to push it at clients as one will have negative rather than positive effects on client perceptions (and there are already enough things happening on this site with the potential to put clients off).


This!!!


Phyllis G wrote:

Renata S wrote:

 
My clients are busy people. They signed on to the site get things done. This is not an online store and attemptions to push it at clients as one will have negative rather than positive effects on client perceptions (and there are already enough things happening on this site with the potential to put clients off).


This!!!


OMG. I need an editor! 🙂 I'm going to have to avoid being outraged in the wee hours. 🙂


ETA: Quoting OP Jennifer D.

"And from a freelancer point of view, I can see how this would be alarming. Sure, information like their feedback history is visible on their profile. But that's different to shoving it in the face of past clients"

 

This. Especially when we'd rather not work with a client again. We've all experienced jobs that have gone well and resulted in 5 stars, but the client and freelancer relationship may not have been what both hoped for, and neither party would care to work together again.

 

I wish U would think things through to their logical conclusion. For an online freelance site, it's astonishing how little you seem to know (or care) about how clients and freelancers work together.

jmccpa
Community Member

Mods,

 

I have earned over $170,000 on Upwork and have a 94% JSS.

 

  I absolutely do not want my clients to receive spam from Upwork relating to my activities with other clients. 

 

How to I opt out?  Is the only choice to make my Profile private?

 

If that is the only answer, I will do so immediately even if it decreases invites and adversely affects my future earnings and Upwork's as well.

 

Joseph M. Chernow, Certified Public Account

Joseph M. C. ,P.C., CPA/ABV

@ Joseph and any mod who might give a hoot ... I will do the same ... and Upwork will lose money.

 

jmccpa
Community Member

No response on my request to Mods how to opt out.

 

My Profile is now Private.

Joseph M. C. ,P.C., CPA/ABV
datasciencewonk
Community Member

Dear Upwork...

 

This is a horrible idea. All of the FLers who've replied thus far have covered the reasons I would present to you as well. Going down the Amazon/eBay road, i.e., commodifying knowledge or intellectual work, demonstrates a clear lack of knowledge as to the difference between purchasing a widget and hiring me to write a white paper. So many nuances that cannot be downshifted to "Kat earned 5 stars on client work that has nothing to do with the work she's done for you in the past." Or "here's an annoying promotion for past freelancers."

 

It reminds me of the Amazon sellers who pester me for reviews of their products. Ugh. 

I'm amazed by the amount of time and effort Upwork spends planning, testing and, in the worst cases, implement completely useless and stupid features.

Upwork, your silence is deafening.

 

We don't expect the newer mods to comment, but the experienced and seasoned ones - Valeria, Lena, and Vlad - might at least acknowledge that you've sent the legal concerns expressed by posters up the chain of command.

 

The furor is not going to die down by ignoring us.  Odds are it will only escalate.

 

Just adding to the furor. I agree with every concern that has been raised. It's not entirely confidential but my clients do not want their grants plans announced to other clients of mine by way of UpWork releasing details (Even just the name) of my contracts and pushing reviews in front of their faces. 

 

Furthermore, I could see that should a freelancer have an unfortunate experience with a client that ends in a bad review, that this being pushed in front of former or ongoing/repeat clients would damage business FOR EVERYONE, UpWork included. 

 

Why in the world would my clients care what my other clients think of me or what other job I did? Oh, right, they don't. They only care about the work I'm doing for them and the quality of the work I give TO THEM, and whether THEY won a grant or not. Ridiculous. 

This was first made apparent to users on 9/1 at 05:31:24 PM by an Upwork client.

 

It is now one week later - 9/8 - and, other than lame excuses and erroneous statements from mods  (through no fault of their own) the issue remains unaddressed by management.

 

We have questioned the legality of this based on NDAs, Codes of Ethics for various professions, and simple common sense.

 

It appears that Upwork neither respects nor cares about client concerns, freelancer concerns, or the essential legality of the actions taken based on a severely misguided attempt to play like Amazon.  If I am wrong, please let us know that both clients and FLers have a way to opt out of this mess.

 

If U wants to run 'beta tests' (which this is not; pls. see detailed comments in previous posts) - then at least give those of us smart enough to understand the ramifications the ability to opt out.

 

It has been 7 days - and so far Upwok's only words have been ineffectual platitudes.  It seems to us that clients and freelancers alike deserve some answers to the issues addressed.

 

cupidmedia
Community Member

Today I got the exct same "recommendation" 12 hours apart:

 

Upwork recommendations channel3.png

 

Is there any point in me continuing to report these issues here?


Jennifer D wrote:

Today I got the exct same "recommendation" 12 hours apart:

 

Upwork recommendations channel3.png

 

Is there any point in me continuing to report these issues here?


From the FL sided of the table, this is maddening. UW is creating aggravation which will inevitably spill onto the poor FLs who are being used (against their will and without their knowledge) to spam clients.

 

Jennifer, I harbor only the faintest hope that updates here from you and other clients will prod UW to action. But I personally appreciate the window into what is going on, on the client side. 


Jennifer D wrote:

Today I got the exct same "recommendation" 12 hours apart:

 

Upwork recommendations channel3.png

 

Is there any point in me continuing to report these issues here?


Yes, there is ... if for no other reason than to keep us FL's apprised of what is happening to our clients. And to keep on fighting it.

We frequently try out new features -- both big and small -- by conducting testing with a small group of users. This is the standard practice for most companies, and tests can sometimes last weeks or just a few days. In order to not impact or skew test results, we typically try not to share details about tests while they are ongoing. We do appreciate you sharing your concerns which have all been shared with the team. I can also confirm that as of today this Beta test has ended. 

Untitled


Lena E wrote:

We frequently try out new features -- both big and small -- by conducting testing with a small group of users. This is the standard practice for most companies, and tests can sometimes last weeks or just a few days. In order to not impact or skew test results, we typically try not to share details about tests while they are ongoing. We do appreciate you sharing your concerns which have all been shared with the team. I can also confirm that as of today this Beta test has ended

 

_______________________

 

Hi Lena, 

 

Does this mean "ended" as in no longer in existence, or "ended" as in this will be rolled out? 


 

Very good question!!

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