Oct 26, 2019 05:01:41 AM by Simone B
Hello,
I am engaging with a difficult freelancer.
A couple of weeks ago we started a project that should have been delivered in around 10 days.
After starting, the freelancer went unresponsive and not giving me updates.
When I asked for update he was elusive, so after 3-4 days like this I messaged to him that he was not a professional and that I was very disappointed.
He instantly answered to me, while showing me a simple image of its work, and ended the contract saying that he has some difficulties to respect the deadlines.
Then I knew that he has completed 10% of the work when he should have completed at least 60% at that time.
At that point, as I didn't want to also have wasted my time, I said to him that we could create another contract and that he must give me constant updates or let me know if there are some issues.
Several times he was unresponsive or he said that he would have delivered part of the work at a specific time, but actually he showed up later or whenever he wanted. Really frustrating.
Then he told me that he has big family problems. I have been empathetic but now we are at the third contract with a formal today deadline and he told me that he would have delivered the work yesterday. Of course no work has been delivered, he didn't write me anything so far.
Apart from the quality of the work that was not so satisfying, I am very angry that I have to pay someone with so little professionalism. Personal problems should be handled better, as I could have hired someone else.
Is there a way that I could end the contract without paying him or is it impossible? He hasn't formally delivered anything through the "Send the work and require payment" button.
Looking forward to your answers. Thanks in advance.
Oct 26, 2019 05:09:22 AM by John K
Oct 26, 2019 05:37:01 AM by Simone B
Yes, but the problem is that my freelancer surely would dispute it as it has probably quite ended the work.
So what can I do?
Oct 26, 2019 06:04:35 AM by Petra R
Simone B wrote:Yes, but the problem is that my freelancer surely would dispute it as it has probably quite ended the work.
So what can I do?
How much money are we talking about?
Oct 26, 2019 06:19:58 AM Edited Oct 26, 2019 06:24:01 AM by Petra R
Simone B wrote:260$
Try to negotiate a part payment with the freelancer. If the work is nearly done the freelancer will expect to be paid (not without justification) - and a dispute costs nerves and may not lead to a result. Arbitration costs $ 291 so....
If you want to use the work, you have to pay it in full.
Maybe next time you just use a different freelancer after the first time someone demonstrates that they are not a great match. It baffles me that you are now on contract number 3 (2 of which were unpaid and will greatly harm the freelancer's JSS.)
Oct 26, 2019 06:25:47 AM by Petra R
Simone B wrote:What do you mean by "not without justification"?
If a freelancer has completed the work, they rightly expect to be paid for it.
Ideally you should have taken the hint when the freelancer walked away from your profect the first time, and just hired someone else there and then.
Oct 26, 2019 06:27:02 AM by Simone B
Ok so I will leave a really bad review.
Maybe this is the only chanche that I have.
Oct 26, 2019 06:40:54 AM by Petra R
Simone B wrote:Ok so I will leave a really bad review.
Maybe this is the only chanche that I have.
The only chance for what?
Oct 26, 2019 06:42:58 AM by Simone B
So that he does not making fun of me. Because this is how I feel now. In a trap.
Oct 26, 2019 07:00:02 AM by Will L
Simone,
Under Upwork's rules, as I understand them, within a certain time period you can submit a refund request for some or all money you have paid out to a freelancer or used to fund escrow under a fixed price contract.
If the freelancer doesn't agree to the refund, you can use Upwork's mediation services to try to reach a mutually-acceptable agreement with the freelancer. Whether or not you use Upwork's mediation services, you can at any time tell Upwork to send the dispute to arbitration.
Requesting arbitration will require you to agree to pay $291,but only if the freelancer also agrees to pay $291 to an arbitrator. If the freelancer doesn't pay $291, you will not be charged $291 and will win your dispute by default, meaning the refund you have requested will be made by Upwork.
If you do pay the $291 for arbitration and arbitration occurs, that money will not be refunded to you regardless the outcome of the arbitration.
Good luck.
Oct 26, 2019 07:08:37 AM Edited Oct 26, 2019 07:09:24 AM by Petra R
Will L wrote:
Whether or not you use Upwork's mediation services, you can at any time tell Upwork to send the dispute to arbitration.
Only if dispute mediation fails. If the client does not participate in the mediation procedure, the freelancer gets the money in Escrow.
Oct 26, 2019 07:17:34 AM by Will L
Petra,
Who decides if Upwork mediation has "failed"?
As a freelancer, if I had a dispute with an unscrupulous client and the amount of payment in question were large enough, I'd just as soon tell Upwork I'm not interested in any "mediation" and request they send the dispute to arbitration immediately.
Oct 26, 2019 07:47:49 AM by Petra R
Will L wrote:
Who decides if Upwork mediation has "failed"?
It would be considered "failed" when the non-binding suggestion made by the mediator (after both parties have stated their cases and showed what was delivered) is not accepted by both parties. Only then may the process move towards arbitration.
Considering Upwork has to pay $ 291 to go to arbitration too, they have the right to try and resolve it amicably first.
Will L wrote:As a freelancer, if I had a dispute with an unscrupulous client and the amount of payment in question were large enough, I'd just as soon tell Upwork I'm not interested in any "mediation" and request they send the dispute to arbitration immediately.
Yes, I would too, but it's a necessary first step.
Oct 26, 2019 07:55:21 AM by Will L
I see. Upwork certainly has an interest in avoiding that $291 cost, too.
So I could request arbitration immediately, but Upwork has to approve the request at its sole discretion?
Yet another reason not to do fixed-price contracts.
Oct 26, 2019 08:13:14 AM by Petra R
Will L wrote:I see. Upwork certainly has an interest in avoiding that $291 cost, too.
So I could request arbitration immediately, but Upwork has to approve the request at its sole discretion?
I believe what Jenn says she does is state clearly from the outset what she is willing to accept and if she doesn't get that, she will opt for arbitration. You still have to do all the boring stuff such as state your case and show the deliverables and so on.
Will L wrote:Yet another reason not to do fixed-price contracts.
I wouldn't say that (for me personally), I only had one dispute in all the years and over 250 contracts (most fixed price) - and that would have been avoided had I listened to my gut and declined the contract... The dispute was a most unpleasant experience (I guess they have an interest in not making it pleasant, as a deterrent...) but I ultimately walked away irritated but with all my money in my grubby little hands.
Had it been necessary, I'd certainly have gone to arbitration. I had the money set aside in case the client would not fold.
Oct 26, 2019 08:22:58 AM by Will L
As I said before, the arbitration option is not feasible/attractive to freelancers on low-cost (sub-$291?) projects. I have the luxury of not working on such projects, so I would either agree to a client's reasonable request for a refund (without getting Upwork involved in any way) or request arbitration immediately and go through the motions with "mediation." I have no obligation to negotiate anything with lying/cheating/clueless clients, of which I have dealt with blessedly very few.
But I suppose all of this makes it a good idea to close a fixed-price contract when the project is complete, in order to start the 30-day countdown on the client's ability to request a refund that will, ultimately, automatically be paid by Upwork if the freelancer doesn't agree to change their refund request or pay $291 for arbitration?
Another contract could be opened if more work needs to be done.
Oct 26, 2019 09:52:00 AM by Jennifer M
Will L wrote:I see. Upwork certainly has an interest in avoiding that $291 cost, too.
So I could request arbitration immediately, but Upwork has to approve the request at its sole discretion?
Yet another reason not to do fixed-price contracts.
If you tell the mediator that you want a certain amount or you want arbitration, they will go back to the client and try to get some amount and come back to you and acknowledge that you're willing to go into arbitration. They might ask if you'd consider some kind of remedy (like revisions if you're a writer) and if you say no to that, then they will ask you to pay the arbitration fee.
Oct 28, 2019 01:27:42 AM by Vladimir G
Will L wrote:
So I could request arbitration immediately, but Upwork has to approve the request at its sole discretion?
Yet another reason not to do fixed-price contracts.
Hi Will,
I'd like to clarify that this isn't an accurate representation of Upwork's role in the mediation process, since contractual parties are the ones who decide whether to proceed to arbitration or not. Petra was describing the outcome in case one party doesn't respond to the dispute request in the allotted time frame, in which case the funds are awarded to the participating party in line with Upwork ToS.
Oct 28, 2019 04:44:22 AM by Will L
Thank you for the additional information, Vladimir.
Just to be clear - if at any time either the freelancer or the client involved in a dispute requests that Upwork Mediation send the dispute to arbitration but the other party does not agree to arbitration within the allotted deadline for response, does the requesting party automatically win the dispute?
Oct 28, 2019 05:12:47 AM by Vladimir G
Hi Will,
Just to clarify, I believe Petra was describing a scenario in which, after the dispute is initiated, one party fails to respond to the dispute request within the advised time frame. In the scenario you're describing, it appears both parties communicated but weren't able to agree on the solution in the mediation phase. In that case, arbitration is the only option and if one of the two contractual parties declines to proceed with arbitration, the funds will be released to the party that paid the arbitration fee. You can find more information about specific release conditions and scenarios in the 2.1 article of Fixed-Price Escrow Instructions section of Upwork ToS.
Oct 28, 2019 01:12:58 AM by Heather H
Simone B wrote:
He instantly answered to me, while showing me a simple image of its work, and ended the contract saying that he has some difficulties to respect the deadlines.
Then I knew that he has completed 10% of the work when he should have completed at least 60% at that time.
He informed you that he is unable to respect your deadlines for whatever reason, HE ended the contract at that time, and I am assuming there was no payment at that point.
I fail to understand why you would continue to pursue him after he already informed you that he can't stick to your deadlines? Further, you hired him twice more after this. You also said you did not like his work, then why would you hire him 2 more times? I am sorry you are facing an issue with a freelancer, but once he quit without payment and told you he is unable to give you what you need, everything that follows is simply your own fault.
Oct 28, 2019 01:20:42 AM Edited Oct 28, 2019 01:22:28 AM by Vladimir G
Hi Simone,
I'm sorry to hear about the issue you're having on the contract you mentioned. While we can't discuss contract-specifics and don't have the full insight, we would advise you to communicate with the freelancer and try to resolve the issue amicably. If that isn't possible and you can't come to an agreement, we do have a dispute process in place in order to manage contract disagreements that can't be resolved between the contractual parties directly. Feel free to follow up with me directly in case you'd like to receive additional information and guidance regarding the dispute process, in case you don't come to an agreement with your freelancer to complete or end your contract.