Only full star feedback is enough?

[86978cc0]

I´m fairly new here in Upwork, but I´ve noticed some freelancers can be quite aggressive in demanding full stars feedback. A few of them have rather deleted the work they have done on my website and returned the payment than accepted 4,5 star feedback.

Maybe there are some cultural differences related to this? I tend to think that the whole scale should be in use, and nobody is perfect. 4,5 star rating is very good in my opinion. But maybe in some other (eastern?) cultures not getting full stars is interpreted as a failure?

Anyway I think it´s not appropriate to try to pressure your counterpart in this matter.  Maybe Upwork should come forward and remind freelancers AND customers to respect each other´s independence in this matter?

[colettelewis]

It is not a cultural difference. The problem is that every job a freelancer completes, is judged not once but twice and may be more. It is extremely important for us to keep our job satisfaction level at above 75%  because under this we risk having our accounts suspended.

You are right about the aggressivity. It is in fact, against the ToS for either the freelancer to demand a five-star rating or for the client to offer one in lieu of cheap work.

That said, the pressure on freelancers to 'perform' is intense, so a new freelancer, or one who wants to keep a high rating could be understood for offering a refund rather  than receiving less than perfect feedback. Freelancers are actively encouraged to nudge their clients for feedback (good or bad) before closing a job. This is both humiliating and counter-productive.

A star rating of 4.5 is perfectly acceptable, but if then, the hidden judgement (which freelancers don't see) is say, 3.00, it could have a negative impact on the freelancers profile and future chances of getting a job.

A litte transparency could go a long way in helping to create a normal working  relationship between buyer and provider.

[geigerj]

I'm sure many freelancers become pushy about feedback.  You are not the first client to make such a claim.  If any freelancer erases previously delivered work that you've paid for because you left them less than a five-star rating, you absolutely need to report them (be sure to keep all correspondence on the UpWork platform).  I don't know anything about website work and how that works, but UpWork/Elance does not allow freelancers to demand, bribe, or barter for a specific rating.

Understand that ratings are very important to freelancers, because there are so many of us here.  Every rating either helps us or hurts us.  This is our livelihood.  A 4.5 rating (or anything less than 5) is less than desirable, although a single 4.5 rating shouldn't make or break an otherwise competent freelancer.  If your freelancer did everything they were supposed to do the way they were supposed to do it and communicated effectively throughout the project, I see no reason why you shouldn't give them a five-star rating. It's not like a 5-star rating should be reserved only for those freelancers who went above and beyond.  Nobody wants to hire a freelancer who did an "okay" job, so remember that when rating them. 

However, this in no way means you should feel bullied into a rating.  Fairly assess your freelancer's abilities (being careful to distinguish between UpWork flaws and inconveniences and things out of the freelancer's control) and rate them accordingly.  If a freelancer throws a fit or tells you that you need to give them X rating, tell them to take a hike and report them to UpWork.

-Juli

[suznee]

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@Julianne G wrote:

 If your freelancer did everything they were supposed to do the way they were supposed to do it and communicated effectively throughout the project, I see no reason why you shouldn't give them a five-star rating. It's not like a 5-star rating should be reserved only for those freelancers who went above and beyond.  Nobody wants to hire a freelancer who did an "okay" job, so remember that when rating them. 

However, this in no way means you should feel bullied into a rating.  Fairly assess your freelancer's abilities (being careful to distinguish between UpWork flaws and inconveniences and things out of the freelancer's control) and rate them accordingly.  If a freelancer throws a fit or tells you that you need to give them X rating, tell them to take a hike and report them to UpWork.

-Juli

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 Juli,

The one comment above is how many clients feel, that the 5 stars should only be given to those who went above and beyond. Sadly with the JSS even those who have gone above and beyond are still not getting a good rating because a client feels a 7 or 8 for instance in the private feedback question is a good score. 

You commented that one score of 4.5 won't hurt. Well sorry but it does. I worked with a client for a few weeks that got to busy to give me any work, so I ask him to close the contract because I wanted to make myself available for more work. He didn't think that giving me a 7 was a bad score. And stated that a 7 was I did a good job with what he had ask me to do and he had not worked with me long enough to give me higher. He gave me a 5 on my profile, but because of that 7 my score dropped from 96 to 93. I was dropped 4% previous to that for a 4.8 score on a job.

The JSS is unfair in if you can't get perfect scores you are gone. They suspend your account if you cannot provide 70% or higher. The client should not feel pressured though, but this is what Upwork has done.

They said the moved away from the star system to stop this kind of behavior, but they have just created a new monster with the JSS as now you can be booted off Upwork if you don't get those perfect scores.

Freelancers are also responsible for successful jobs, if a clients disappears the freelancer is responsible. If we don't get feedback we are responsible. There is no responsibility accountable for clients.

[prestonhunter]

re: "I've noticed some freelancers can be quite aggressive in demanding full stars feedback."

This is true. Some freelancers are aggressive about this, and they're out of line. This is inappropriate behavior. Asking for five-star feedback is a violation of Upwork ToS. It is also rude.

Personally, I never mention feedback, and that works for me.

I encourage clients to close contracts when a project is done and they no longer actively need my help. If the CLIENT closes the contract, it is impossible to do so without leaving feedback. So I do NOT need to mention feedback at all to clients.

re: "I tend to think that the whole scale should be in use, and nobody is perfect. 4.5 star rating is very good in my opinion."

You are correct.

4.5 is a very good rating, as the rating system was designed.

Because the star feedback rating system was so mis-used, it was downgraded in importance.

Many contractors have complained about the switch to the "Job Success Score" system. The reason Upwork changed to displaying the Job Success Score at the top of contractor profiles is because the star average feedback displayed too little spread. The star average numbers were so tightly clustered around 5 that Upwork felt the star averages no longer served their intended purpose.

You should not feel bad about honestly rating contractors. I'm proud of ratings in my job history that are around 4.5. I have ratings such as these from clients who were pleased with my work and complimented me in their feedback notes.

re: "But maybe in some other (eastern?) cultures not getting full stars is interpreted as a failure?"

I don't think it's really a cultural thing. There are simply a certain percentage of individual freelancers who are shameless about trying to milk the system in any way that they can. There are individuals who copy other people's profile text, individuals who copy other people's portfolio pieces, and individuals who ask for 5-star feedback despite the fact that doing so is against policy and regardless of their performance. If you have encountered what seems like a high proportion of contractors doing this from one, two or three particular countries, it could be that their is a statistically-identifiable skew to the numbers, or it could be that there are simply more contractors from those countries, so the total number is larger even though it isn't disproportionate.

[saydur1]

Is it really true when the contract close then the client do not anything without feedback?

[rcraighead]

Tapani,

I can understand your sentement and agree, to a point. But when "Star Ratings" affect my "Job Success" percentage a 4.5 Star rating becomes a BIG negative. I feel it patently unfair to reduce Job Success % for a 4.5 Start rating.

It is especially frustrating, as a contractor, when small, fixed-price jobs that are very "cut and dried" recieve less than a 5-star rating and the client does not even leave written feedback to backup their rating. In addition the Upwork site does not break down the star rating so the contractor can see what category(s) were not rated "5". 

I see a fundemental flaw in the rating system on Upwork. At least in my case I receive more consistent feedback on smaller, fixed-price jobs because on-going hourly, open-ended jobs may not recieve a feedback rating for months, if at all. This means less than steller fixed-price feedback tends to scew my overall rating. When an $80 job has more effect on my "success" rating than a "$1000" job something is wrong.

Upwork does not share their "Job Success" algrithm. I probably would not understand it if they did. I just know, as a contractor, a less than perfect score for a simple project seems like a failure and when the client does not take the time to provide constructive, written feedback, it is a downright "slap in the face".

[elastella]

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@Ray C wrote:

... 

It is especially frustrating, as a contractor, when small, fixed-price jobs that are very "cut and dried" recieve less than a 5-star rating and the client does not even leave written feedback to backup their rating. In addition the Upwork site does not break down the star rating so the contractor can see what category(s) were not rated "5". 

...

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 If you go to your profile and click on the individual job in the work history, you will get a detailed breakdown of the feedback according to the 6 categories clients get to rate.

[prestonhunter]

re: "Is it really true when the contract close then the client do not anything without feedback?"

I don't know what you mean.

Can you ask your question in a different way?

[saydur1]

I have read your article where you describe about client feedback. When the contacts or project end then no need to ask client about feedback because after close the project client not to do anything without giving feedback.

[prestonhunter]

Saydur:

You are correct.

When a project is over, a freelancer can ask the client to close the contract.

When a client closes a contract, the client is forced to leave feedback.

So there is no reason to mention feedback.

[saydur1]

Thanks. But I have another question any valid way to ask good reviews or feedback from client?

[prestonhunter]

re: "But I have another question any valid way to ask good reviews or feedback from client?"

In my opinion, if you ask a client for good reviews, then you are violating Upwork's ToS rules that prohibit feedback manipulation.

As for me personally:

When I post jobs, I select the option to hire freelancers from anywhere in the world.
When I hire freelancers, I don't pay attention to where they are from.

If you ask me for good feedback, I will look at where you are from. And I will do my best to never again hire any freelancers from that place.

(Now... maybe this is hyperbole. Or maybe it isn't.)

[saydur1]

Thanks