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mantagraphdesign
Community Member

PRICES UPWORK V.S. FIVERR

Good afternoon, is it possible to elevate the quality of work by limiting the minimum budget of clients per project? It is super sad to see that there are clients asking for logos for 5 usd (and minus 20%!!!) and 10 usd. It seems to me that is more like a FIVERR kind of thing. 

Upwork used to promise high quality work, and high quality work! It is impossible to promise high quality work for 5 usd logo while most of the clients are offering at least 100.

This would probably be good for EVERYONE including clients. This is about ELEVATING the QUALITY of SERVICES and WORK, always forward, not backwards.

24 REPLIES 24
a_lipsey
Community Member

Honestly, I'd rather Upwork spend more time vetting and getting rid of the crap/scam/fake profile freelancers than placing limits on clients. Clients can post budgets like that because Upwork allows freelancers who will accept it. While not all freelancers working for such low rates are poor quality or scammers (depending on where they live $5 could be a fair rate), it seems that the majority of client complaints come about due to these low-rate projects. 

joansands
Community Member

Liza - I don't believe it is up to Upwork to tell clients what they should seek to pay for a job. Upwork needs to acquire more clients, not lose them. All freelancers have the choice of not applying to a job if they feel the pay for a job is not good enough.

scce2020
Community Member

True. A well-designed cheat-resistant system of skills tests would help with that, too.

Supattra:

As you probably already know, Upwork already had a very large selection of skills tests, which it licensed from a third-party supplier.


You mention a "cheat-resistant system."
That was never part of Upwork's skills tests.

 

Now Upwork now longer hosts skills tests, and I don't think they are going to return to doing so any time soon.

 

I certainly agree with you that having a set of skills tests which is NOT well-designed and which is NOT cheat-resistant is worse than having no skills tests at all.


Ultimately, I think Upwork became aware of the rampant cheating within their system, among a certain segment of their freelancer population.

 

So rather than display skills tests which were not necessarily reliable reflections of a freelancer's skills (if that individual freelancer cheated on the tests), Upwork decided to not host the tests and their results.


Supattra K wrote:

True. A well-designed cheat-resistant system of skills tests would help with that, too.


Really?

 

Please suggest a test that adequately assesses my skills. 😉

 

boris268
Community Member

I apsolutely agree with you Liza, Upwork has become Fiverr 2.0 with every day 50-10 jobs that clients have without verified accounts or payments putting silly job requests for 2-25$ they usually ask for work that you will spend hours sometimes even days on. 

Now they introduced this gigs like they do on Fiver. I hired few freelancers in past on fiverr and always got  **Edited for Community Guidelines**up there. Even some hacked my website when he built it. I mean Upwork quality is really stagnating drastically. Vetting jobs posted is a must have, I had to go trough vetting to get into it as freelancer, why not new clients? Because you know if you made it "to hard" for clients they would not come in anymore. 90% of jobs these year posted on upwork were canceled or closed without any hired. This is insane.

lysis10
Community Member


Boris R wrote:

I apsolutely agree with you Liza, Upwork has become Fiverr 2.0 with every day 50-10 jobs that clients have without verified accounts or payments putting silly job requests for 2-25$ they usually ask for work that you will spend hours sometimes even days on. 

Now they introduced this gigs like they do on Fiver. I hired few freelancers in past on fiverr and always got  **Edited for Community Guidelines**up there. Even some hacked my website when he built it. I mean Upwork quality is really stagnating drastically. Vetting jobs posted is a must have, I had to go trough vetting to get into it as freelancer, why not new clients? Because you know if you made it "to hard" for clients they would not come in anymore. 90% of jobs these year posted on upwork were canceled or closed without any hired. This is insane.


It ain't the clients turning this place into fiverr, friend.

kinector
Community Member


Jennifer M wrote:


It ain't the clients turning this place into fiverr, friend.


Precisely.


Boris R wrote:

I apsolutely agree with you Liza, Upwork has become Fiverr 2.0 with every day 50-10 jobs that clients have without verified accounts or payments putting silly job requests for 2-25$ they usually ask for work that you will spend hours sometimes even days on. 


Boris, what are you saying? You're not getting some of those jobs and therefore frustrated?

 

The rest of us just skip and don't think about it. If some people want to sell their workday for 5 bucks, let them. The seller decides the price. To maintain a fair and free market out here, we should let the markets decide. Not correct thinking, somehow, is that your opinion?


Mikko R wrote:

Boris R wrote:

I apsolutely agree with you Liza, Upwork has become Fiverr 2.0 with every day 50-10 jobs that clients have without verified accounts or payments putting silly job requests for 2-25$ they usually ask for work that you will spend hours sometimes even days on. 


Boris, what are you saying? You're not getting some of those jobs and therefore frustrated?

 

The rest of us just skip and don't think about it. If some people want to sell their workday for 5 bucks, let them. The seller decides the price. To maintain a fair and free market out here, we should let the markets decide. Not correct thinking, somehow, is that your opinion?



I'm saying why the hell am I paying for this platform? They take 20% from everything I earn at first later less but still and I pay every month for membership, I pay for the service I recieve ZERO service ZERO. I get TERRIBLE JOBS and don't make much money because I don't APPLY for these TERRIBLE Jobs. That's what I'm saying.

I'm very frustrated because I haven't seen good clients since last year.

Mikko R If you want to hire someone doing a high quality work for 5$ and then comeing back to me to fix that great service you recieved from a guy you paid 5$ before me then do that that's your decision. Last year only I had 4 clients who hired someone 5 times cheaper and then they hired me to fix what the other did. Looking at your profile I can see you don't have any new jobs since last year if that is great for you then awesome, I like having a constant flow of good new jobs. It's why I pay a membership.

ncourchamp
Community Member

I agree with Liza and I'd go further than that. 

I think Upwork is being naive about the way the world works and some freelancers are too.

With high-level skills represented in different parts of the world, you find yourself in direct competition with people from countries that have a vastly inferior cost of living which allows freelancers to work at a cheaper price. 

It's nice to think that only rich western countries have people with high-level skills and that companies will recognize that but I think this assumption is just racist and not true. You do find good tech people in other parts of the world and I work as a French translator and I have to acknowledge the fact that there are some terrific translators in Maghreb and other African countries that have a master's degree, good qualification and lots of experience. I had clients bailing on me because although I could do a good job at 30 dollars an hour (which is already extremely cheap considering the Euro/dollar conversion rate + charges) someone in Morocco could do an equally good job at 12 dollars an hour which would be under the minimum wage in France. So why would clients not take advantage of that if the system allows them to ? 

I think a smart way of preventing clients from putting offers that are just an insult to people's skill and to "delocalize" their needs to poor countries would be to limit the lowest amount of money clients can pay based not on jobs or skills but simply...on the location of the client ! Say a client is from India, then his budget would have to match the cost of living there but an American or west European company would not be able to put an offer that pays people what a child would make in a Chinese factory. And it would be really easy to do since Upwork requires information related to the place members pay their taxes. 

Such an unregulated market has no place in 2021 and it's morally wrong. As long as poor people need to eat, there will always be some to accept hard technical jobs for 10 dollars. 


Nicolas C wrote:

I agree with Liza and I'd go further than that. 

I think Upwork is being naive about the way the world works and some freelancers are too.

With high-level skills represented in different parts of the world, you find yourself in direct competition with people from countries that have a vastly inferior cost of living which allows freelancers to work at a cheaper price. 

It's nice to think that only rich western countries have people with high-level skills and that companies will recognize that but I think this assumption is just racist and not true. You do find good tech people in other parts of the world and I work as a French translator and I have to acknowledge the fact that there are some terrific translators in Maghreb and other African countries that have a master's degree, good qualification and lots of experience. I had clients bailing on me because although I could do a good job at 30 dollars an hour (which is already extremely cheap considering the Euro/dollar conversion rate + charges) someone in Morocco could do an equally good job at 12 dollars an hour which would be under the minimum wage in France. So why would clients not take advantage of that if the system allows them to ? 

I think a smart way of preventing clients from putting offers that are just an insult to people's skill and to "delocalize" their needs to poor countries would be to limit the lowest amount of money clients can pay based not on jobs or skills but simply...on the location of the client ! Say a client is from India, then his budget would have to match the cost of living there but an American or west European company would not be able to put an offer that pays people what a child would make in a Chinese factory. And it would be really easy to do since Upwork requires information related to the place members pay their taxes. 

Such an unregulated market has no place in 2021 and it's morally wrong. As long as poor people need to eat, there will always be some to accept hard technical jobs for 10 dollars. 


What happened to the idea of the free market, my friend? Why should the client pay you more just because of your country of residence and not because of what you can deliver to him/her? (This is from a guy staying in Malaysia which is not the most expensive of places, yet, delivering nothing but the most expensive services.)

 

If your business is not competitive globally, you have little if any chance to succeed on this platform in the long run. This is just a fact, not an opinion of mine.

 

The trick is not to be cheaper. It's to have a better offer. The kind of offer that beats every other offer. A more valuable one. (And yes I did see your first Upwork job shown in your profile.)

 

The other trick is to focus on the right kinds of clients. Only the best kinds. The kinds who value YOUR specific and unique skillset. Don't have one... too bad.

 

Anyway, good luck Nicolas.

re: "It's nice to think that only rich western countries have people with high-level skills and that companies will recognize that but I think this assumption is just racist and not true."

 

Wow. You are using the "R word"?
Really?

 

Which Western country are you thinking of?
United Kingdom?
Do you think "United Kingdom" is a race?

Have you ever been there?

 

Or the United States?
Do you think the United States is a race?

 

Putting that aside... Nobody at Upwork believes that only people in "rich western countries" have high-level skills. Nobody here in the Forum says that. I don't know where you are getting that.

Force people to pay more and they will simply take their business elsewhere. That means fewer jobs on Upwork for people that probably need them most.


It won't help anybody, least of all those at the bottom end of the scale. If you see a job that pays low, then don't apply. 



Jamie F wrote:

Force people to pay more and they will simply take their business elsewhere. That means fewer jobs on Upwork for people that probably need them most.


It won't help anybody, least of all those at the bottom end of the scale. If you see a job that pays low, then don't apply. 



Yes that's what I think Upwork is afraid of that's why we are floooded with 5$ jobs in first place.

petra_r
Community Member

There is place for all levels of freelancers on Upwork. 

 

The $ 5 an hour freelancers are no more m competition than I am theirs. We play in different parts of the Upwork ecosystem.

 

My competition are the people who charge around my own rates.


People look at the wrong factors when they want to blame something for their lack of success. The clients who want to pay $ 5 for a logo would never hire someone who charges $ 500. On the other hand, the clients who want to pay $ 500 won't even look at the $ 5 bidders. Different markets.

 

And honestly, Boris, you seem to be quite capable of winning large contracts at high rates. 

re: "Such an unregulated market has no place in 2021 and it's morally wrong."

 

The invisible hand is why you have the good things you have in your life.

 

You may need to go back and review Adam Smith.

 

If it were not for the invisible hand, there would be no Upwork at all.

How about changing your mindset as a freelancer maybe?

UpWork is not my core activity, but even if it was, I built in less than a year a solid track record, stayed on top as a top-rated profile in certain verticals.

 

I would not care if UpWork has a billion clients throwing in 5 USD jobs.

Any self-respected freelancer with a decent track record  will start to  pick their clients, not the other way around. And in this case, will pick which one you want to apply for.

 

When I started here on Upwork, I did the grind and went from 25 USD per hour (6 times less my average rate than usual) and adjusted my profile along the way, setting my standard rate now for most jobs at 110 USD average per hour.
And in case you doubt about that:

here is a thread and my response on that page from last year. 

https://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/If-I-withdraw-a-proposal/m-p/741866#M452381

 

Screenshot 2021-01-27 at 05.14.51.png


I picked jobs in early stage I can deliver with ease even when it was less, but that was just the key and doorway for me to build that rep.

Today, I just get 3-9 invites weekly alone from my specific industry I actually want to do, and just restarted working back on UW since I have more time now, plus I am just picking with care which ones I want to apply for.
Now that I am back, I selected a few jobs I want to apply for, and bang, less than a week within my return I scored one. 10-12 hours work, 1-1.2K USD earned. 

The key for anyone that is working for themselves is placing yourself in a position where you can be more selective and scale accordingly. (bigger paycheck, less work)

That said, even if there are a lot of jobs that you would classify as a fiverrr job, give the ones the chance that would do it and let them grind their way up so they can start increasing their rates too.


Pieter B wrote:

How about changing your mindset as a freelancer maybe?

UpWork is not my core activity, but even if it was, I built in less than a year a solid track record, stayed on top as a top-rated profile in certain verticals.

 

I would not care if UpWork has a billion clients throwing in 5 USD jobs.

Any self-respected freelancer with a decent track record  will start to  pick their clients, not the other way around. And in this case, will pick which one you want to apply for.

 

When I started here on Upwork, I did the grind and went from 25 USD per hour (6 times less my average rate than usual) and adjusted my profile along the way, setting my standard rate now for most jobs at 110 USD average per hour.
And in case you doubt about that:

here is a thread and my response on that page from last year. 

https://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/If-I-withdraw-a-proposal/m-p/741866#M452381

 

Screenshot 2021-01-27 at 05.14.51.png


I picked jobs in early stage I can deliver with ease even when it was less, but that was just the key and doorway for me to build that rep.

Today, I just get 3-9 invites weekly alone from my specific industry I actually want to do, and just restarted working back on UW since I have more time now, plus I am just picking with care which ones I want to apply for.
Now that I am back, I selected a few jobs I want to apply for, and bang, less than a week within my return I scored one. 10-12 hours work, 1-1.2K USD earned. 

The key for anyone that is working for themselves is placing yourself in a position where you can be more selective and scale accordingly. (bigger paycheck, less work)

That said, even if there are a lot of jobs that you would classify as a fiverrr job, give the ones the chance that would do it and let them grind their way up so they can start increasing their rates too.


**Edited for Community Guidelines**

You have a side full time job great for you.

I became full time exclusive Freelancer on Upwork because I met some great Upwork clients and enjoy to work on Upwork with great people and met many friends I consider Upwork my community now.

From client perspective I'm also a client on the platform and it is true that there is way to many terrible freelancers so I understand the clients side of the story too. Freelancers will do anything to win a job even play dirty tricks.


I think it's only fair that clients also need to purchase connects to place jobs. It will weed out probably 90% of fake jobs.

You have to pay when you put an ad on a website or news papers to hire someone why not Upwork?

petra_r
Community Member


Boris R wrote:

I think it's only fair that clients also need to purchase connects to place jobs. It will weed out probably 90% of fake jobs.

Indeed it would. It would also weed out a huge percentage of the real jobs, stop new clients trying Upwork and essentially cause Upwork to go under within months, if not weeks. The reason why none of the main platforms do this is because they all realize what a truly dumb thing that would be to do.

 

**Edited for Community Guidelines**

Well you were close Smiley Very Happy, not Dutch, Belgian ( you know, waffles beer chocolate, fries and all the other scrumptious sins on a plate or glass you can find lol) 

 

 


Pieter B wrote:

Well you were close Smiley Very Happy, not Dutch, Belgian ( you know, waffles beer chocolate, fries and all the other scrumptious sins on a plate or glass you can find lol) 

 

 


In that order? Smiley Happy

Well, I can only say:
1. I am not British, but Belgian in the first place. I just live in 2 countries, a residence in  London and Taiwan. 

2. I have 7 streams of income and built around other businesses to hedge variance when market conditions go south in one vertical.

 

It was your choice to become exclusively a freelancer on UW, and that alone is a big mistake when you know that economical cycles around the world and cycles on platforms like UW can inflict massive up and downswing in earnings or the ratio supply-demand is just not favorable for some freelancers.

 

 


Boris R wrote:

Jamie F wrote:

Force people to pay more and they will simply take their business elsewhere. That means fewer jobs on Upwork for people that probably need them most.


It won't help anybody, least of all those at the bottom end of the scale. If you see a job that pays low, then don't apply. 



Yes that's what I think Upwork is afraid of that's why we are floooded with 5$ jobs in first place.


You seem to have missed the point.

My comment was not about Upwork's profits (and they make little to nothing on small contractors - or even losses).

It's about your suggestions not being practical or helpful. The only thing they will achieve is to make things harder for those at the bottom of the ladder. 

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