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2933b674
Community Member

Plagiarism expiring after 30 days?

Hi,

 

So first off, I'd like to say I've been a very happy upwork customer for years.

 

I've hired dozens of freelancers to write articles articles, and I learned to stay away from those who aren't good at writing content and aren't experts in their field.

 

Until now.

 

Native English speaker freelancer, experienced in her field - just what I needed. It was her first job, but we all have to start somewhere, right? The way she communicated was perfect. No red flags.

 

She writes 11 articles, when I get the idea to use copyscape. Yes, I should ahve done it sooner. Most articles are ok, except for one that's 66% plagiarized, and another one that's 30%. Of course, in reality, the percentages are higher because she changed some of the wording. I was in shock.

 

We already had a milestone in progress that was funded and she delivered work, and I was just about to approve it when thsi happened.

 

The funny part? The 30% article she spun belonged another website of mine. And before you ask, yes, Wayback Machine took a spanshot  of the article after I published it last year, before the two of us met.

 

The other article belongs to a high profile website in my niche. I can't imagine the damages to that website I would have had to pay if I had published the article. It's almost identical.

 

Her reaction to all of this? Shrugging her shoulders. She can't understand what happened. She didn't copy paste. Maybe she reproduced the thing unconsciouscly afte reading the sources for inspiration. She is quite the prodigy.

 

She never tried to figure out what happened. Just shrugged her shoulders saying "it wasn't me". Veery quiet about it, letting time pass by, while sometimes replying to my messages,  leading me to believe ther's progress and that we can work it out. Not surpising for someone who "used to be a laywer".


I've been trying to work something out with her for 3 weeks now. She's very good at stalling, though she does reply, so she's not sick.

 

I asked for refunds for the articles (a partial one for the partially plagiarized article) but she did not reply to them. She said she will have something "asap" but didn't.

 

Last night I found a 3rd article with issues, and requested a small refund for. Thankfully only had one paragraph plagiarized. She offered it this morning "as a gesture of goodwill". A gesture of goodwill after she refuses to refund me an 8X larger amount of money for the other two articles, and after she's purposefully stalling for weeks.

 

And the worst part? We still have a milestone for an article that passes copyscape that I have to pay. It's roughly the same amoune as what I am owed for the plagiarized content. And it seems I have to pay it.

Upwork, what is happening? 30 days, really? Do crimes expire after 30 days?

 

Yes, I should have done it sooner. But only 30 days to get a refund for a piece of content that is an obvious scam? As a client spending money here, that doesn't make me feel very safe. Please change your policies. I'm not coming back after 7 years (even though in front of the law I can), I'm coming back after a few months.

 

Another fair optionfor UpWork would be to start suspending such accounts. The evidence is there. It doesn't matter whether you refund the money or not. These are not the kind of people you want on your platform.

 

Thanks,

 

Ovi

17 REPLIES 17
prestonhunter
Community Member

Most Upwork contracts have nothing to do with writing or plagiarism.

 

30 days is generous. If it was my decision, the time limit would be zero days.

 

This is a blanket policy, covering all types of work.

 

Upwork is not saying that something that was wrong after 29 days is no longer wrong after 30 days.

 

Upwork is simply placing reasonable limits on how its tools can be used.

 

These are only limits on how Upwork itself is used. If you want to seek remedies to your solution outside of Upwork, such as reporting a plagiarist to the copyright owner of plagiarist writings, you may do so.

 

You may also message a freelancer at any time to request a refund.

 

Moreover, if you believe that a freelancer is acting fraudulently, you may still report that freelancer at any time, even after thirty days have passed, by using the "Flag as inappropriate" link button on the freelancer's profile page.

"Most Upwork contracts have nothing to do with writing or plagiarism."

 

Plagiarism is a form of fraud, and Upwork should have storng policies around this very broad and detrimental concept. https://students.uu.nl/en/practical-information/policies-and-procedures/fraud-and-plagiarism

 

"30 days is generous. If it was my decision, the time limit would be zero days."

 

One of the main reasons upwork is perceived as a higher quality freelancing platform is because of the quality of the freelancers. Both freelancers and clients migrate to where they are most likely to find quality pay or workers respectively. I would be curious to see your idea put into practice, and whether or not the migration trends would be reversed.

 

"Upwork is simply placing reasonable limits on how its tools can be used."

 

Payment processors such as Visa and Mastercard (among others) seem to have a vastly different reasonable limit on chargeback timeframes, which are 4 to 6 times longer than upwork's.

 

" If you want to seek remedies to your solution outside of Upwork, such as reporting a plagiarist to the copyright owner of plagiarist writings, you may do so."

 

One of those remedies performing a chargeback. However, and as a vendor of digital services myself, I am well aware that chargebacks not only incur additional charges for merchants, they also damage reputations with banks and credit card companies. So it makes sense to have storng guarantees and refund procedures.

 

"You may also message a freelancer at any time to request a refund."

 

I already did, she offered the requested partial refund for the 3rd article (the smallest amount), while ignoring the other two. She didn't fix the articles as promised and agreed, to avoid having to refund anything.

 

"Moreover, if you believe that a freelancer is acting fraudulently, you may still report that freelancer at any time, even after thirty days have passed, by using the "Flag as inappropriate" link button on the freelancer's profile page." 

 

Good to know, I was not aware of that, thank you.

Issuing a chargeback is a violation of Upwork TOS. If you issue a chargeback, your Upwork account would be suspended.

Interesting, thank you for letting me know.

Hi Ovidiu,

 

I shared your report with our team and one of our agents already followed up with you on your support ticket to assist you further. You can access your ticket on this page.

 

~ Nikola
Upwork
2933b674
Community Member

Hi Nikola,

I just followed up with them, thanks you!

Ovidiu

Another surprise from this freelancer. I needed two articles on the same topic, and she delivered them a few weeks apart. Copyascape reports a 54% match between articles. I flagged this freelancer, what else can I do to help the community not run into the same issues I had?

petra_r
Community Member


Ovidiu George L wrote:

Plagiarism expiring after 30 days? Do crimes expire after 30 days?


You had 14 days to check the work before even approving the milestone. Plagiarism doesn't expire, your ability to dispute the milestone does. The time to check work is before approving a milestone. Had you done that, the situation would be very different now.

 

Plagiarism is also not "criminal"

 

Ovidiu George L wrote:

what else can I do to help the community not run into the same issues I had?


Presumably you closed the contract and left appropriate feedback? That's all you need to do to "help the community nit to run int the same issues".

 

 

You can't ask a spinner to not spin. Spinning is all that a spinner knows how to do. Spinners don't crochet, bake, write or weave. They spin.

Spinning should result in somewhat different content (using synonyms, changing the order of words). Not the case here, where you have 10, 15 or 20 words in a row that match exactly with other sources.

 

If upwork doesn't want to take appropriate action against these kinds of practices besides the "flag as inappropriate" button, it's upwork reputation that may suffer.

2933b674
Community Member

Perhaps you are late to the party, this thread is older, and I just posted an update.

 

Plagiarism is also not "criminal" - What does criminal even mean and why did you put it in quotes? Criminal is also not when a freelancer asks for money outside of upwork, yet upwork takes decissive action by banning that freelancer. yet when a freelancer swindles upworks clients, an acoount ban is never in question.

 

FIY, criminal or not, plagiarism can be fought in the court of law, but given the small amount of money I lost, it's not worth it.

 

"Presumably you closed the contract and left appropriate feedback? That's all you need to do to "help the community nit to run int the same issues"." Actually you can also flag a freelancer as inappropriate. If you had read this thread before you posted you would have seen someone giving me this suggestion.

petra_r
Community Member


wrote:

Actually you can also flag a freelancer as inappropriate. If you had read this thread before you posted you would have seen someone giving me this suggestion.


Why would I suggest you do something you have already done?  You confirmed that you had flagged them, so the only part left was leaving appropriate feedback. And I did read the whole thread. 

 

You asked what else you can do, I told you. 

 


Ovidiu George L wrote:

Plagiarism is also not "criminal" - What does criminal even mean and why did you put it in quotes?


There is a difference between criminal offenses and things that break rules or are rights breaches. Plagiasm fall under the second category. Criminal offenses are things a public prosecutor prosecutes. 

 


FIY, criminal or not, plagiarism can be fought in the court of law, but given the small amount of money I lost, it's not worth it..


 

Maybe, given the small amount of money you lost and considering the fact that it's now months after your unfortunate experience with that freelancer, it is time to let go and move on?

 

 

2933b674
Community Member

I was wondering if there's anything else that can be done. I actually hadn't flagged her until today, as I decided to let this thing go, until I saw another article today. So  I actually did what you suggested, and will likely let it go again after this. But should upwork let this go, or should they learn and adjust?

 

And I'm not sure what that does anyway. If you look at someforums, there are systems in place where users get warnings next to their names if they break the forum rules. These are in addition to the reputation system (the rating). Reputation is built by other users rating you, warnings ar given by forum admins.

 

While I agree the T&C are what they are right now, let's not forget these evolved over the years, as upwork updated them. Nothing is set in stone, we can all learn from these situations and hopefully increase the fairness levels one way or another.

 

"There is a difference between ..."

 

Yes, there is a difference. Asking money outside of upwork is breaking the rules, yet it is legal (edit: legal in general, as we're all bount by upwork's T&C which has value in the court of law, of course). Copyrights are protected by laws in any country, they are much more than just breaking the rules. In Romania, copyrights are protected by law 8/1996 (and subsequent updates).

petra_r
Community Member


Ovidiu George L wrote:

Copyrights are protected by laws in any country, they are much more than just breaking the rules. In Romania, copyrights are protected by law 8/1996 (and subsequent updates).


Yes, but not criminal law. 

Murder is a criminal offense, as is robbing a bank or kidnapping a child etc etc.

 

That was my point.  

 

I am not defending plagiarism in any way, by the way, just saying to keep things in proportion and then move on.

2933b674
Community Member

Ok but why would you make that point? I searched in page for the word "criminal" and i never mentioned it. You are the first one who did...

petra_r
Community Member


Ovidiu George L wrote:

Ok but why would you make that point? I searched in page for the word "criminal" and i never mentioned it. You are the first one who did...


crimes.png

2933b674
Community Member

Go it, sorry about that

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