Protecting your idea

[515906d5]

I saw this question posted a few years ago with very little in terms of helpful answers.

If you have a new idea and you want to protect it how do you do so while searching for someone to build the site? Sharing the idea to understand if they can build it based on your needs but not risking that idea getting stolen?

I've seen the same answer, it's just an idea until it's implemented... exactly why we're here looking for someone to implement how do we know there aren't just poachers here looking to steal ideas? I live in the real world, where people make a living off stealing other peoples ideas, work, etc.

[prestonhunter]

Nobody here wants to steal your idea.

We want the money you pay us to help you implement your idea.

[515906d5]

What an excellent and helpful response Preston, thanks.

I'm assuming you have discussed motives and intentions with every single person on this site and can personally vet for them all? 

[prestonhunter]

re: "What an excellent and helpful response Preston, thanks."

You're welcome.

re: "I'm assuming you have discussed motives and intentions with every single person on this site and can personally vet for them all?"

Not all of them.

But if it helps put your mind at ease, consider four points:

1. Frequent Forum participants such as myself have a good feel for what is going in the minds of Upwork freelancers, as well as what kinds of problems clients have faced. There are literally thousands of threads here in the Forum. The question you pose here has been discussed many times, as a theoretical possibility. But nowhere do we have any complaints from clients of such a thing actually happening. There ARE real issues that clients face here. We do not have any examples of this being one of them.

2. If you think about it logically... Upwork attracts freelancers who want to do freelance work to earn money. They want to work for other people. They're not here so that they can develop their own ideas into businesses. A freelancer wants a client to pay her money to do work. These freelancers do not want to do the same work FOR FREE, on their own, that they can get you to pay them to do.

3. I know that you are pleased with your idea. But it has no actual value until it is implemented. A lot of other people had the same idea, by the way. What separates you from them is this: You're actualy going to put in the work it takes to make your idea a reality, even if that "work" involves hiring other people to help you. But the hundreds of other people who also thought of this idea, or something quite similar to it... they're going to do nothing. So in the end, your idea AND your hard work are what transforms an idea with no actual value into a project that has real value.

4. Let's imagine (as you have done) that there are freelancers on Upwork who DO want to steal your idea. I can assure that Upwork has no program in place to prevent this from happening, and offers no guarantees that it won't happen. If you are concerned about this, then the responsibilty for making sure it doesn't happen is entirely your own. You should feel free to tailor how you refer to your ideas in your job proposals so as to not divulge any information or concepts you don't want people to have. You are free to be cautious about how you interview potential hires, and about how you work with those you do hire.

I don't think you have anything to worry about. But if you're worried about this, there's really nothing here to stop "idea theft" other than your own common sense and proactive practices.

[colettelewis · Accepted solution]

There is no way you can legally protect an idea, and as Preston says not many people actually do it. But you can protect yourself up to a point and you might find this Forbes article helpful. 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/drewhendricks/2013/11/18/7-simple-ways-you-can-protect-your-idea-from-t...

[515906d5]

https://info.legalzoom.com/patent-website-idea-20491.html

Also helpful information.

[prestonhunter]

For websites, the #1, most surefire way to protect your investment is very simple:

Make sure you personally registered the domain name, and don't give your domain registrar password to anybody.

[a53045e0]

Hey so I know u say no1 wants to steal ideas but I have just sent all my project info over to a designer who agreed to work with me and loved my idea than after 3 weeks heard nothing after constantly contacted to than receive information on the business she just started that is my idea I sent to them. Still no contact now I have competition which is fine but not fine as it’s the person I hired. What can be done about this.

[AveryO]

Hi Kaylee, 

I checked your messages with this freelancer. If you have any evidence where this freelancer used the files, and information you sent, you can send it to me through a private message so that I can look into this further.

[8fe8bf76]

should upwork be held  liable or  sued for having my  intellectual shop ecommerce property  stolen or damaged  by one of their designers or members ?  Upwork should be accountable as they launch unsafe freelancers. What type of buyer protection upwork offers ?

[prestonhunter]

re: "Should Upwork be held liable or sued for having my intellectual shop ecommerce property stolen or damaged by one of their designers or members?"

Those are actually two distinct questions.

Should Upwork be held liable for this?

No.

Should Upwork be sued for this?

No.

re: "What type of buyer protection Upwork offers?"

Upwork does not claim to offer "buyer protection" with regards to intellectual property.

But Upwork's standard contract DOES make it clear that freelancers are NOT allowed to steal clients' intellectual property. You can read all about that here:

https://www.upwork.com/legal

Upwork allows clients to find and pay freelancers. When you hire a freelancer, you establish a contract with the freelancer, not with Upwork. If a freelancer violated her contract with you, then that is who you need to be concerned with.

Keep in mind that it has not been established that any freelancer actually stole anything that can be considered intellectual property in a legal sense. Ideas, methods and systems are not legally protected by copyright law, or trademark law, or patent law. It is possible for a freelancer to have done something that was very wrong indeed in a moral sense, yet not have done anything that is legally enforceable.

[prestonhunter]

A general point, which does not address any specific post in this thread:

Broadly speaking, there is no legal basis for trying to "protect ideas."

Copyright law doesn't protect ideas. (There are some LIMITED circumstances under which non-copyright laws protect ideas.)

From LegalZoom:

https://www.legalzoom.com/articles/5-things-you-cant-copyright

Aside from making sure you own the domain name, other ways you "protect" your ideas relate to how you hire, who you hire, how you manage projects from a technological standpoint, how you manage personnel, etc.

Upwork definitely has default contract language stipulating that the work a freelancer is hired to do and paid in full for... that work belongs to the client. But Upwork does not offer "idea protection services."

[mwiggenhorn]

Cairenn, totally agree.  Legal Zoom is a terrible place to get information.

[browersr]

A lot of good points raised so I won't repeat. That said and another path is to not give all of your details. Work in specific increments and reveal only what is necessary to get the immediate job done. It might be that you will have someone develop an MVP and someone else handle a different aspect, etc. I don't know what your ideas are or the complexity, but using some creativity you can get things built without turning over the keys. 

[emily_reactant]

I've worked with both verbal and more formal signed NDAs on Upwork and outside of the platform. Most freelancers just want to help you realize your idea, not steal it for themselves. Ultimately, you will have to share your idea with the world in order to sell your product/service/whatever, so this is something you will have to deal with in your head sooner or later.

If you've come to Upwork to look for freelancers, you've already assessed your idea and realized that it's going to need more work than you personally can complete on your own to bring it to market. Have a read through some of the very helpful links others have replied with to look in to how you're going to go about protecting your idea while you work on it.

Don't feel awkward about asking freelancers to sign an NDA. A formal NDA will also include more thorough details about the freelancer, including their address and full name.

It can be a scary time if you think you've come up with a real corker and are worried that someone might pinch it, but ultimately the best way to protect your idea from theft is to get it to market swiftly and effectively, and for this you're going to need a team to help (which is why we're here). Being first to market, and being the very best execution of your idea will go a long way towards your success - don't forget that IP thieves may well execute your idea badly even if they do try and steal it. After all, they're lazy-ass idea thieves.

This is pretty heavy reading, but gives some pretty in-depth advice about patents vs other methods of protecting IP, both formal and informal (patent law isn't identical everywhere in the world, but it is similar, so check details for your juristriction). This is a link relating to UK patent law, but the content is very thorough, especially in how it explains the difference between processes and physical inventions, and the various levels of secrecy and formal/informal types of protection you might be able to apply. The patent law for where you live will supercede this, but it's still very much worth a read: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/the-use-of-alternatives-to-patents-and-limits-to-incentiv...

[prestonhunter]

Emily's post here is quite brilliant.

Any time I see clients wondering about how to "protect their ideas," I'll have to forward them to the above post.

[emily_reactant]

---

Preston H wrote:

Emily's post here is quite brilliant.

Any time I see clients wondering about how to "protect their ideas," I'll have to forward them to the above post.

---

Thanks Preston.

[515906d5]

Thank you so much Emily for a thoughtful and useful response!

When you develop a novel idea, it's very scary to put it out there and hand over your work to someone you don't know.  Not to say you can't trust anyone or that very hardworking honest people on here are all looking to steal ideas, but of course, it's best to protect yourself.

Thank you so much for suggesting an NDA and how that is absolutely acceptable on Upwork, this was very helpful feedback.  I think it's a great idea as well for Preston to use Emily's response instead of his intial response. 

[florydev]

---

Stephanie M wrote:

Thank you so much Emily for a thoughtful and useful response!

When you develop a novel idea, it's very scary to put it out there and hand over your work to someone you don't know.  Not to say you can't trust anyone or that very hardworking honest people on here are all looking to steal ideas, but of course, it's best to protect yourself.

Thank you so much for suggesting an NDA and how that is absolutely acceptable on Upwork, this was very helpful feedback.  I think it's a great idea as well for Preston to use Emily's response instead of his intial response. 

---

You may never come back to read this Stephanie but I want to put this out there anyway for you and others who may someday read this discussion.

I believe what Emily has suggested:

but ultimately the best way to protect your idea from theft is to get it to market swiftly and effectively

Is absolutely the only way to protect your idea.  NDA's only have value if you are willing to go to court to enforce them and I would wager most of the one's I have signed the client didn't even bother to engage a lawyer to write one.  It does not exactly shout willing to pay a lawyer to sue me.   Doesn't matter to me though, I honor an NDA.

But the reality is once you give away your idea there is really no controlling what someone does with it.  You cannot really protect a thought.

So, my suggestion is don't give anyone an idea, instead project a business.  Go to them with a need that your business has for the clients in your market.  A market you already understand and clients you have already talked to about their needs.

In fact I would suggest that instead of engaging in "stealth mode" you should instead be shouting your idea from the rooftops.  You should build an online presence as if your product already exists and start marketing the beegees out of it.  You should be actively targeting your clients and finding out what they think before you ever hire anyone to build anything.  You want them eager if not demaning your products.

I know that is even crazier and scarier than what you are contemplating but consider this, if you go this route:

• You will know if you have a market
• You will be miles ahead of anyone who is starting along the same idea and running in stealth mode

I know you think that the scariest thing is someone stealing your idea but the reality is the scariest thing is nobody wanting it in the first place.

[515906d5]

Thank you Mark!

[kat303]

We all can give suggestions, advise and even links to articles about this. But IMO if this discussion about protecting ideas will in some way specifically affect you, I would advise that you talk to a patent attorney. You can present your concerns, inform the lawyer that you will be hiring a freelancer on this site (or other sites) and ask for his expert legal advice on what you can do and how to do it. 

2 good suggestions here was to divide the work between different freelancers, each working on a different part or aspect of the project. The question is, can this be done without exposing the whole idea? 

Market this idea, as if you already have it. But even with that, if you don't have a patent on the actual developed product, your idea can still can be stolen if either someone else can develop it faster then you and patent it faster then you. That would likely happen more so by marketing this before it's actually developed because you're broadcasting it on the internet. 

[prestonhunter]

Patents don't protect ideas.

Patents protect inventions.

[florydev]

---

Preston H wrote:

Patents don't protect ideas.

Patents protect inventions.

---

And also the thing about a patent is that it by it's very definition requires disclosing the idea to the public, the very opposite of protecting your idea.  That is really it's purpose in a way, governments granting an exclusive right to dictate who cannot use a process so that process is eventually available for everyone.

[6bbea79c]

You first file a provisional patent. You don't need a legal argument in the provisional. That gives you a year to come up with refinement to your 'ideas' and create the legal argument. In the meantime, all the details disclosed in the provisional will ultimately be protected if the eventual patent is accepted. I confirmed with the Patent office a few days ago even regarding software. If you think you truly have an 'invention' - you are ultimately not the judge of that - you should file a provisional before or during discussing the development of the idea here.

[6bbea79c]

But then also be good and use nothing from the help here at Upwork to include in your provisional if that is not already completed and if you do not include your associate here on the provisional by name. If you come up with the idea here, the Upwork associate should be named on your provisional.