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933c4bf3
Community Member

Reaching professionals who fit my requirements

I just posted a job intended for marketing people with native familiarity with Saudi Arabia. I repeatedly made clear that this job was only for people who had lived in Saudi Arabia. Within an hour I clicked "view suggested freelancers," and found I had 20-plus pages of names of people from India, Pakistan, China...not a single person from the Middle East. There was even a food writer from Brazil. The whole exercise has been worthless. Are these names automatically gathered by the Upwork algorythms, or are all these people who opted to ignore the qualifications I was looking for and write me anyway? How do I reach the right people?

ACCEPTED SOLUTION

Sylvia, we share your frustration with the unwieldly steps one needs to take.  I'm going out on a limb here; however, I hope the mods undertand I am not suppling free work but the proper wording for Sylvia's RFP.

 

After you go thru the steps suggested by Rene and find a few people who look like potentail candidates - send an Invite Only to them.  Multiple people can be included.  Do not accept Upwork's offer of help in adding people to your invite. Script your RFP to read:

 

This job is for Arabic/English speakers residing only in UAE and Saudi Arabia.  You must have marketing knowledge and be able to show examples.  Any validated and documented experience in the art world will move you to the top of my list.

 

I am an artist (indicate what kind if possible) and am looking for skilled marketing people in the UAE and Saudi Arabia who can create a list of media outlets in their respective countries where it makes sense for me to advertise my artwork.

 

If you are able to supply names of the key individuals in the respective media outlets - all the better but not mandatory.

 

Hope this helps.

 

 

View solution in original post

20 REPLIES 20
kochubei_valeria
Community Member

Hi Sylvia,

 

Thanks for sharing your experience. I'll forward it to the team. Meanwhile, from the search page that you see when you click that link, you can add on filters and include the location filter.

 

 

Screenshot from July 19, 2018 11-25 AM.png

 

 

 

~ Valeria
Upwork

The solution suggested by Valeria definitely works, but it is a lot more time-consuming.

 

I basically had the same problem, see here: https://community.upwork.com/t5/Clients/What-is-the-best-time-to-post-a-job-to-get-proposals-from/m-...

Valeria's suggestion works. I suspect if you add fluency in Arabic AND English you'll get far fewer responses. Perhaps you're unaware that freelance marketng specialists who serve the Saudi market are largely found in Bahrain and the United Arab Emirates.

I am going to cancel the job posting I created and start anew with another one. When creating the posting I did not see some of the options you are referring to, but now that I know they exist, I will keep my eye out for them.

 

I am flummoxed by the fact that I began my post by saying it was directed only to 1) people in Saudi Arabia who 2) were very familiar with that country's news media structure, and only people with those qualifications should write me. When doing so, I added, they should address what they could do as far as the need I described having. I could not have been more clear. Within a couple of hours I had twenty pages worth of people who were not remotely qualified professionally or geographically to do what I wanted, and who made no reference to my specific project. After a couple of hours, the responses stopped, although I did nothing to cut them off.

 

How can the system be so flawed? And beyond what I did, how can I prevent people without relevant professional background from answering me, when I could not have been more clear on what I needed? I mean, I received answers from every Facebook tactitian in India and Pakistan. As I said earlier, I even heard from a food writer in Brazil. Everything but what I needed.

 

I appreciate, incidentally, your telling me that I am less likely to find people from Saudi Arabia on Upwork than people from other parts of the Arabian peninsula. I will probably have to reorient my slant accordingly.


@Sylvia C wrote:

I am going to cancel the job posting I created and start anew with another one. When creating the posting I did not see some of the options you are referring to, but now that I know they exist, I will keep my eye out for them.

 

I am flummoxed by the fact that I began my post by saying it was directed only to 1) people in Saudi Arabia who 2) were very familiar with that country's news media structure, and only people with those qualifications should write me. (...) Within a couple of hours I had twenty pages worth of people who were not remotely qualified professionally or geographically (...)After a couple of hours, the responses stopped, although I did nothing to cut them off.

 

 


What you described is a major and well-known issue on Upwork. They are letting everyone and their cousin create a profile, with the consequence that the unqualified ones are spamming all the job posts in the hope to either get hired or to milk a client or two.

 

True professionals on Upwork are having a hard time being noticed among all this noise.

 

Upwork's recent answer was to delist jobs once a certain number of Top-Rated freelancers have submitted a proposal. This is why the flow of spam ceased in your case. Unfortunately, Top Rated doesn't mean they don't send spams.

 

Upwork is going public. Huge listings look nice in annual reports and they increase a company's perceived value. Even if these listings are full of ****.

-----------
"Where darkness shines like dazzling light"   —William Ashbless

Hi Sylvia. Excuse me if I've misunderstood you, and I should say that I'm a freelancer who hasn't used the client interface. But it sounds to me as if you may be confusing two different things.

 

When you click on "View suggested freelancers" I believe you get a list of freelancers selected by Upwork's automated algorithm. Being a relatively dumb algorithm, it doesn't understand English and probably takes little or no account of the TEXT of your job post.

 

If you wait a while after submitting your job post, you should start to receive proposals from freelancers responding to your job post. These should be more relevant to your requirements than Upwork's automated suggestions.

 

P.S. From your second comment it sounds like you HAVE been receiving proposals from freelancers, and those have been irrelevant too. Sorry to hear that.

+1 million to Rene's comments.  The glut of spam bids is not from professionals; the spam bids are from bots and 'wanna be folk' who do not think through or take the time to understand a client's needs.

 

Upwork is biting themselves and clients thanks to a well-intended but poorly thought out solution.

 

Again, as many have noted, clients and Upwork would be far better served by better screening of new and/or low-track record freelancers vs. the current 'innovated solution'.

 

 

Back when I began this thread, my first question was: when I click "view suggested freelancers," am I getting names chosen by the Upwork algorithm, or real people writing me back? The problem created is the same regardless, but involve different solutions. I gather that the names under "view suggested freelancers" were chosen by the Upwork software, as opposed to their being people who actually wrote me. Or am I wrong?

 

Earlier, I had a very good experience with Upwork, when I sought someone, with no geographical preference, to help me with WordPress. Now that I am asking for something very different, I am again getting the same types of names I got with the first request. This is beginning to be analogous to a stopped clock which, despite not functioning, manages to be correct twice a day.

 

I feel like someone who wanted an engineer from Germany, but was instead sent twenty pages' worth of names of traditional dancers from Mongolia, and at the end of that the system shut down automatically because I'd received enough names to choose from.

 

Upwork moderators, are you reading this?

 

Do I just officially shut down the job offer and start all over again? Is there something I can do differently?

I just had a conversation with the person who is helping me with WordPress. She tells me she indeed saw my job offer and wrote me back. So maybe the 20 pages worth of people who answered my Saudi Arabia ad actually wrote me as opposed to having been selected by the software.

After a space of several weeks, I want to try again. I have been trying to find someone in the UAE and someone in Saudi Arabia who can create for me a list of media outlets in the two countries where it makes sense for me to advertise my artwork. I am in the United States and I know nothing of media in these nations. When I listed these jobs before, I discussed under this subject heading what happened. First, the system immediately sent me many pages of names it thought fit my requirements. Wrong, wrong, wrong. The list was almost entirely made up of Facebook professionals in India and Pakistan, who knew nothing of my geographical target area. Then some people wrote me who were clearly didn't have the geographical or professional background I needed. I think the former was the bigger problem, however. I also have the sense that when the applicant pool has reached a certain number of people, the system shuts it down. I am concerned that my search was shut down by the system after the same system supplied me with twenty pages worth of names that were of no use to me. 

 

Well, enough time has passed that I want to give it another go. Here is my question. Is there a way that as part of creating the job request I can stipulate I do not want the system to automatically suggest names to me? 

Sylvia, there are 3 genres of responders to a RFP:

 

1. freelancers a client specifically invites > this entails the buyer doing a bit of homework by performing a search using key words delineating specific needs and then clicking on freelancer name in order to invite.  This function is also used to reach out to and/or rehire a freelancer. These rarely result in a spam and/or copy/paste non-personal response.  Conversely, many of these responses pose specific questions and/or suggestions about your job.

 

2. buyer clicks "suggest freelancers" button and Upwork's algorithm recommends people and sends them a non-personal invite.  The algorithm results may or may not be a proper match ... and sometimes not even close. Some of these responses pose specific questions and/or suggestions about your job. The ones with specific comments re your job are worth talking to; a simple "I do X" needs to be trashed.

 

3. freelancers read your RFP and are interested in working with you. Again, you will have to look for relevant comments and/or questions - specific to your needs - to determine which of the freelancers is worth talking with and which are spam and/or bot bids.

 

Key comments from freelancers will be within the first few sentences.  They're easy to spot.  All the other bids > garbage can them.  If a freelancer doesn't know how to market his/her business they will not know how to market yours. By "market yours" I mean virtually every aspect - from a website build to designing a logo; from copy writing to translating.

 

Hope this helps.

 

 

 

 

Rene, I really appreciate the help you're providing to both clients and freelancers in the Community on a daily basis but would just like to kindly point out that your response here isn't relevant to the OP's case, in addition to not being really reflective of the actual situation on the platform and the number of programs we have implemented in order to prevent the behaviour you described, nor the recent test we announced. Wanted to follow up here for the benefit of current and potential users who are reading Community discussions and might not be as familiar with the platform as you and other experienced users. Thanks again for your continuous contribution to our Community.

~ Vladimir
Upwork


@Vladimir G wrote:

Rene, I really appreciate the help you're providing to both clients and freelancers in the Community on a daily basis but would just like to kindly point out that your response here isn't relevant to the OP's case, 


 I just read your answer to the OP and I stand corrected.

-----------
"Where darkness shines like dazzling light"   —William Ashbless

Vladimir wrote:

"

2. Even if the location preference had been selected in the job post form, this wouldn't prevent freelancers who don't meet this preferences to submit proposals to your job but you as a client would see a red exclamation mark on the proposal tile, notifying you that they don't meet the this preference."

 

Vladimir slightly off the topic of location, but about the red exclamation mark. I have applied to a job that specifies $$$ and rising talent. I ignored the exclamation mark because I am top rated. However, does this mean that a top-rated freelancer is not  likely to be seen by the client because they will see the exclamation mark and assume that the proposal is not up to standard? In which case I have not only wasted a couple of connects, but also the possibility of landing a job.

 

 

 

 

Hi Sylvia,

 

I'm sorry about your frustration with your experience with the recent job you posted on our platform.

 

I checked and see you posted a few jobs which outlined the location preference in either job description or title, but without this preference being selected in the respective field in the job post form. I'd like to clarify a few more points you noted in your posts here:

 

1. Freelancers are free to bid on jobs they feel they are a good candidates for and it's up to the client to review the proposals they receive and shortlist the freelancers they believe are a good match for their job.

 

2. Even if the location preference had been selected in the job post form, this wouldn't prevent freelancers who don't meet this preferences to submit proposals to your job but you as a client would see a red exclamation mark on the proposal tile, notifying you that they don't meet the this preference.

 

3. Upon checking your jobs, I see that you're most likely referring to freelancers whose profiles have been displayed under the "Search" tab. To clarify, these aren't the freelancers you submitted a proposal to your job but who were identified as matching the keyword and filters you selected on this page. I can confirm that the location filter wasn't selected on the jobs I checked and the keywords used aren't location-specific.

 

Please let us know if you'd like to receive assistance from our team dedicated to helping new clients find the right talent for their job and I'd strongly advise you to review the resources for new clients we compiled here.

 

Let us know if you have any further questions or concerns that we can help you with.

~ Vladimir
Upwork



1. Freelancers are free to bid on jobs they feel they are a good candidates for and it's up to the client to review the proposals they receive and shortlist the freelancers they believe are a good match for their job.

 

2. Even if the location preference had been selected in the job post form, this wouldn't prevent freelancers who don't meet this preferences to submit proposals to your job but you as a client would see a red exclamation mark on the proposal tile, notifying you that they don't meet the this preference.

 1. There are these freelancers that just spam when looking for a job. They are a problem when clients just turn elsewhere looking for freelancers because they get the impression Upwork cannot provide them with the right candidate.

 

2. Only as long as the freelancers live in the US.

Is there a way I can pull up a list of professionals from a particular country, and look through their information to find people suited to what I seek to do in their country? The countries I have in mind aren't going to have a lot of people on Upwork.


@Sylvia C wrote:
Is there a way I can pull up a list of professionals from a particular country, and look through their information to find people suited to what I seek to do in their country? The countries I have in mind aren't going to have a lot of people on Upwork.

 You can try this:

 

Filters.jpg

-----------
"Where darkness shines like dazzling light"   —William Ashbless

Sylvia, we share your frustration with the unwieldly steps one needs to take.  I'm going out on a limb here; however, I hope the mods undertand I am not suppling free work but the proper wording for Sylvia's RFP.

 

After you go thru the steps suggested by Rene and find a few people who look like potentail candidates - send an Invite Only to them.  Multiple people can be included.  Do not accept Upwork's offer of help in adding people to your invite. Script your RFP to read:

 

This job is for Arabic/English speakers residing only in UAE and Saudi Arabia.  You must have marketing knowledge and be able to show examples.  Any validated and documented experience in the art world will move you to the top of my list.

 

I am an artist (indicate what kind if possible) and am looking for skilled marketing people in the UAE and Saudi Arabia who can create a list of media outlets in their respective countries where it makes sense for me to advertise my artwork.

 

If you are able to supply names of the key individuals in the respective media outlets - all the better but not mandatory.

 

Hope this helps.

 

 

Dear Wendy, Thank you so much! I pretty much did what you suggested, and I think the problem has been taken care of. I have gotten a couple of candidates that are exactly what I want. Upwork is a great resource, in no small degree because generous people like you come to the rescue when things are getting bogged down. I am very grateful to your most recent contribution, and to the help I received from other experts when I first brought the topic up.  Sylvia

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