Dec 19, 2017 08:43:15 AM Edited Dec 19, 2017 08:57:18 AM by Michael M
I have worked with my freelancer for about a six months and the work was very slow. Now, I have ran out of my time to work on this project and my freelancer is handling this refund request very well because it was a fixed price job. So there is not guarantee of getting my money back unless he manually does it. I already paid all the requested money and he knows very well how this process works.
Payment which was $8000. $2000 for prototype build and $6000 for iPhone app development. I don't even want the full refund because I think it is unfair to make my freelancer work for nothing. I want to ask for my $6000 development fee. I called the Upwork and currently communicating with one of the Upwork customer experience team member but they are not even responding back. So they are not helping.
The main reason why I want this refund is because the development was very slow and now I ran out of time because I have to leave the country in few weeks. Also, I am not satisfied with the quality of finishing touch. There was a lot of issues during the process of development and I had to point out every little details that are wrong and not working and it took long time for me to point ouf everything. And I don't have time to do that anymore.
My final option is disputing $8000 with the bank as in reason of Good/service not as expected but Upwork remined me that disputing with my bank will suspend my account and I will have no longer access to my conversations which is a mouse trap. I am talking to my lawyers to find a way out of this but any advice/help from Upwork community will be great.
Dec 19, 2017 09:19:20 AM by Petra R
Was it an hourly or a fixed rate contract?
Both are governed by terms of Service you agreed to...
Dec 19, 2017 09:41:37 AM Edited Dec 19, 2017 09:42:10 AM by Prashant P
If fixed price then was it milestone based? Did you approve intermediate milestones?
Dec 19, 2017 10:01:59 AM by Katrina B
@Prashant P wrote:If fixed price then was it milestone based? Did you approve intermediate milestones?
He's already paid all the money.
Dec 19, 2017 10:26:33 AM by Michael M
Thanks for your reply to his question. My freelancer just commented we both should just move on in life. What is your advide on that comment?
Dec 19, 2017 10:36:11 AM by Katrina B
It's really hard to say, because if you do a chargeback you will lose your account.
Since the money has been released and the freelancer refuses to return it Upwork can't get it back for you.
Dec 19, 2017 11:13:17 AM Edited Dec 19, 2017 11:22:11 AM by John K
@Michael M wrote:Thanks for your reply to his question. My freelancer just commented we both should just move on in life. What is your advide on that comment?
That's easy for the freelancer to say, since he's $8000 richer. If it's any consolation, I think Upwork should slap him for making this remark, it's rubbing salt in the wound, but once you as a client approve a fixed price milestone, it's difficult to get the money back unless the freelancer is willing, so the most you can do usually is leave the freelancer negative feedback. Of course, if you already left positive feedback, then you won't be able to change it without the freelancer's consent, which is unlikely to happen.
Dec 19, 2017 11:28:35 AM by Nina K
Hi Michael,
When you release funds from escrow on a Fixed-Price contract, this functions as approving the work that the freelancer did. Once the funds have been released to the freelancer, you are able to only get a refund if the freelancer agrees to refund you the money. Upwork cannot initiate a refund of the money once you have approved the work and released the money to the freelancer from escrow.
Dec 19, 2017 12:34:33 PM by Michael M
I understand the fixed rate payment process. But there is a loophole for the client because freelancers require their client to approve their payment to keep working or they stop working, so the client is left with no choice but to release the payment in order to keep going forward with the project.
This Upwork business is very unpredictable because client doesn't know if the freelancers will keep producing good quality and complete tasks by deadline. And most of the times, they DON'T CARE about the success of your project because for them you are just another client. They will do the minimum of required work and say to their client that this is the best we can do.
Client is taking a huge risk by paying them upfront payments to complete the project hoping to receive what they are hoping for. But what happens if freelancers slow down or does not do well at the end? Angry, and unsatisfied client is the result. And what happens if clients requests a refund because they are angry, unsatisfied of the outcome they receive?
Another WIN for the freelancer.
Dec 19, 2017 03:17:07 PM by Jennifer D
@Michael M wrote:I understand the fixed rate payment process. But there is a loophole for the client because freelancers require their client to approve their payment to keep working or they stop working, so the client is left with no choice but to release the payment in order to keep going forward with the project.
A fixed price project should be structured in such a way that there are distinct deliverables for each milestone. You shouldn't approve the payment until you have received the deliverable you're paying for.
This Upwork business is very unpredictable because client doesn't know if the freelancers will keep producing good quality and complete tasks by deadline. And most of the times, they DON'T CARE about the success of your project because for them you are just another client. They will do the minimum of required work and say to their client that this is the best we can do.
Only if you're working with cheap, unprofessional freelancers. Every freelancer I work with consistently goes above and beyond to make my projects successful. I have never had this experience in 7 years and nearly $200k spent on upwork.
Client is taking a huge risk by paying them upfront payments to complete the project hoping to receive what they are hoping for. But what happens if freelancers slow down or does not do well at the end? Angry, and unsatisfied client is the result. And what happens if clients requests a refund because they are angry, unsatisfied of the outcome they receive?
Another WIN for the freelancer.
Again, there is no reason to pay anything upfront with Upwork's escrow system. You pay when you receive the deliverable, not before.
If you approved the milestones, you are saying to Upwork that you are happy with the work done for them. They can't help you recover your money just because you didn't take advantage of the protection their escrow rules give you.
Dec 19, 2017 05:00:13 PM Edited Dec 19, 2017 05:02:48 PM by Prashant P
@Jennifer D wrote:If you approved the milestones, you are saying to Upwork that you are happy with the work done for them. They can't help you recover your money just because you didn't take advantage of the protection their escrow rules give you.
You can't get refund just becasue you are angry, unsatisfied of the outcome they receive.
If that was a criteria - Walmart refund policy - most clients would claim that.
Dec 19, 2017 10:07:52 PM by Michael M
Nov 23, 2018 08:30:58 AM by Jamiu I
Jun 8, 2019 03:12:13 AM by Najeeba R
Jun 8, 2019 05:38:27 AM by Rene K
Najeeba R wrote:
This really happened with me. Sub standard work which is terrible. We dont have option to approve or reject the work. It’s like your making a gamble.
This is totally wrong. You are asked to approve payment to freelancers.
For hourly contracts, you have one week after the working week to dispute the worksheet.
For fixed price contracts, you have 14 days to request changes or to fill a dispute.
Jun 8, 2019 12:05:52 PM by Kathy T
I know that a client can dispute up to 30 days from when they made the last payment, I'm not sure how that works if the money is already in the freelancers account.
If the freelancer is slow and producing work that's half done or full of errors, you don't have to continue to work with them especially not for 6 months and then complain about that. As soon as you see the freelancer is slow, or the work is not up to par, you can close/cancel the contract You don't need any reason to do that. Also, when you are dealing with deadlines and large amounts of money you should have hired a project manager who Does have the time and experience to deal with the freelancer. They could have told you to get another freelancer, or kept more on top of him to make sure all deadlines are met and the work being produced was correct.
Jun 8, 2019 02:44:26 PM Edited Jun 8, 2019 02:46:40 PM by Preston H
Excllent tips from Kathy.
I'm not entirely where this idea comes from that a client should continue working with a freelancer who doesn't meet their needs.
We see a number of posts like this... With clients talking about freelancers who have been working on a project for six months to a year, and then all of the suddent the client wants to get a refund on all the work. Nobody works like that in the real world. It's very odd.
For any project that big, use a project manager.
When you have a brick-and-mortar business, hiring full-time employees and firing them can be troublesome. That's one of the MAIN ADVANTAGES of hiring freelancers on Upwork.
You can literally fire them at any time, for any reason, and don't need to explain yourself to anybody. Clients who have this ability and then don't use it when they should... That's such a waste of the powers and privileges a client has.
Working with an underperforming freelancer for many months is senseless.
Anything that Upwork freelancers, fellow clients, and Upwork as a company can do to change that mindset will be beneficial to clients.