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35fe0123
Community Member

Ripped off by upwork freelancer

Seeking attorneys that can help me sue upwork as i was totally ripped off by a freelancer 

28 REPLIES 28
petra_r
Community Member


@frank p wrote:

Seeking attorneys that can help me sue upwork as i was totally ripped off by a freelancer 


What happened?

 

In general you can attempt to sue the freelancer, as that is (if anyone) who ripped you off. 

36b90e9b
Community Member

If the freelancer is overseas, how do you do that?  That is why we go through companies like upwork, so we have some layer of protection.  I could go direct to overseas contractors at a lower price.  Now that we know that UpWork doesn't protect us, we are re-thinking how we hire contractors and programmers.

kochubei_valeria
Community Member

Hi Frank,

 

I'm sorry you are having issues with a freelancer you hired. I see that you have already talked to a phone support agent and they've explained the dispute process to you. You've filed a dispute and since the freelancer rejected it, Upwork team will review the Work Diary against the requirements of Upwork Hourly Protection. They'll inform you about the results of the review as soon as possible.

~ Valeria
Upwork
stencil_media
Community Member

And you're looking for these attorneys on Upwork? There's an old saying in Tennessee. I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee, that says fool me once, shame on... erm, shame on you. Fool me, erm... well... you can't get fooled again.

"Welcome, humans. I'm ready for you!"
- Box, Logan's Run (1976)
prestonhunter
Community Member

re: "Seeking attorneys that can help me sue upwork as i was totally ripped off by a freelancer"

 

Sorry. That's not really a "thing".

gerrys
Community Member

Ok ... post a job for a "lawyer".

Frank... in all seriousness, let me repeat what Petra did and ask you to tell us what happend.

 

What was the project? How much money was involved.

 

If you want help with this situation, we can provide it. But only if we know what's going on.

lysis10
Community Member


@Gerry S wrote:

Ok ... post a job for a "lawyer".


 $5/hour hire me sir I sue the upworks sir with the highest quality sir I have 40 years expart experience sir plz hire me

Awesome!

 

I was worried I wouldn't be able to afford to sue the $15.00 logo designer who made my logo the wrong color and caused my client's client to refuse to pay.

 

But with Jennifer on the job, I can take this to court.

we sue 4 u

moneyback guarantee

 

I didn't think I'd get the job, so I dropped my price to $3/hour.

cfe1dda7
Community Member

so sorry im a bit confused by this thread . 

 

can somebody confirm if i havbe legal rights with regards to a freelancer taking money from me , yet not completing half of the work? 

 

or is it not really worth it?

 

Thanks

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

re: "...with regards to a freelancer taking money from me, yet not completing half of the work?"

 

On Upwork, the most important right a client has is the right to end a contract at any time.

This right to end a contract with a freelancer far exceeds the rights that employers have in general. If you are familiar with traditional employment, you know there are many rules and restrictions when it comes to firing. But on Upwork, your right as a client to be able to fire a freelancer is absolute and unrestricted.

 

If you hire a freelancer using an hourly contract to do "Task X", which involves writing 100 product descriptions... and then the freelancer only writes 50 product descriptions and stops working... Then you can close the contract on that freelancer and hire another freelancer to finish the job.

 

If you hire a freelaner using a fixed-price contract to write 100 product descriptions, and then the freelancer only writes 50 product descriptions, then one thing you COULD do is to simply not release the payment to her. Or you could EDIT the amount of money to release. Instead of the agreed-upon $200, you could edit the amount to be only $100. (Half the original agreed-upon payment.) Then when you close the contract, this will automatically present a button to the freelancer to accept the reduced payment. If the freelancer does nothing, then half the money will automatically be returned to the client. If the freelancer clicks the button to accept, then half the money will automatically be returned to the client. Any honorable Upwork freelancer will immediately agree to such a reasonable request. If she only did half the work, she will agree to refund half of the expected payment. But if she doesn't agree, it doesn't mean she gets the money. A "dispute" is created, which means Upwork will mediate between client and freelancer to come to a resolution. And if the dispute process doesn't resolve the matter, the next step is arbitration.

 

re: "or is it not really worth it?"

 

I noticed that this is the first post you have made in the Upwork Community Forum.

 

Welcome to the Forum, and welcome to Upwork.

 

Are you asking if it is worth it to use Upwork?

As a client I have hired over 100 different freelancers on Upwork.

I have spent thousands of dollars here - far more than some people who have hired only once - and far less than some clients who have spent hundreds of thousands or millions.

 

If I have spent my own money to hire here over 100 times... then obviously I think that it is worth it.

 

I hire freelancers here because doing so helps me and provides me with great value.


Is it possible to hire a freelancer on Upwork and not have a great experience?
That's an interesting question. Let me ask you this:
It it possible to go to a movie and not like it?
Is it possible to go to a restaurant and be disappointed?
Is it possible to buy something from an online store and find that it isn't everything you hoped it would be?


The answer is yes.

 

I don't expect every freelancer I hire to work out. The majority of the time - about 90% of the time - I have been very pleased. That is MY OWN experience. Other clients have had different experiences.

 

I can tell you that when you hire a freelancer using an hourly contract, you can end the contract AT ANY TIME, for ANY REASON. You don't even need to provide a reason.

 

So if you hire a freelancer, and you don't like their work, you can just close the contract whenever you want. (That means you can "fire" them whenever you want.)

Wow ,

Great reply . Thanks for your time and sharing your experience .

I agree . Your right so thank you .


if no work given at all, it is considered as stealing,

-> yes

 

but if they give works, then not good quality,

-> no

re: "if no work given at all, it is considered as stealing,

-> yes"

 

Well... As a client, if I hire a freelancer who does no work, then I pay zero money.

 

As a client, I am experienced enough to expect some freelancers to do zero work.

I use this knowledge to my advantage.
For example, if I have a task for which there is an importand deadline, I can hire multiple freelancers. This way I hedge my bets and ensure that I get the work that I need. Because I am using an hourly contract, there is no money tied up in escrow. I can easly close a contract on any freelancers who haven't done any work.

 

So if there is any concern about a freelancer "stealing" because she might do no work, this is a simple thing for a client to avoid.

 

re: "but if they give works, then not good quality"

 

With an hourly contract, I can closely monitor the work as it is submitted. If I see that any freelancer's work is low in quality, I can close the contract immediately. There is nothing that the freelancer can do to prevent me from doing so.

36b90e9b
Community Member

95% of the work on Upwork is fantastic.  4.5% is acceptable, and that last .5% is the problem.  Like Frank P.  I have made a call to our attorney's as well.  As clients, we pay the freelancers, and therefore upwork, and yet upwork backs freelancers that oversold skills and could not deliver.  All you need to do is attempt to use the app they built and you can see it doesn't work as the RFP states or even the demo I built does.  During the dispute process we received zero notification.  We have worked with some great contractors through upwork for over 10 years, and now will lose contact with them, because UpWork doesn't protect the integrity of the job they protect the money they have already charged me.  We have no code, they programmed in their own back door so we can't use even parts of the project and they got paid in full and demanded more.  Upwork is great for piecework, but clearly needs better oversight for larger jobs.

re: "Upwork is great for piecework, but clearly needs better oversight for larger jobs."

 

Scott:
I appreciate your post and your perspective.

 

I think that you and I would agree that Upwork currently doesn't offer high-quality "oversight for larger jobs" such as developing a mobile app.

 

My reaction is this:

- I don't think Upwork claims to offer such, but I believe that their advertising and messaging sometimes lead clients to believe otherwise.

 

- I don't believe that Upwork is going to offer high-quality "oversight for larger jobs" any time soon. I don't know how they would do so, unless they made massive changes to their business model.

 

- I believe that you are sincere in the disappointment you express about how things turned out with the development of a mobile app that you were involved with. I believe that problems you face are the fault of the project manager. But I think that it is common for Upwork clients to commission complex projects such as web application and mobile app development work, without realizing the potential problems that can arise if they don't have a good project manager who is doing her job.

petra_r
Community Member


Scott B wrote:

95% of the work on Upwork is fantastic.  4.5% is acceptable, and that last .5% is the problem.  


You know what? A 99.5% success rate is stunningly good.

 


Scott B wrote:

 Upwork is great for piecework, but clearly needs better oversight for larger jobs.


The oversight is your job or the job of your project manager. Upwork doesn't offer any oversight services.

 

Was the project in question on an hourly basis? In that case quality or completeness of the deliverables does not come into it at all. On fixed rate contracts they do, especially if you're prepared to go through with arbitration.

 

Is this being sorted ?
I had same problem

Thanks

re: "Is this being sorted?"

 

This has already been sorted.

 

Let us know if you have any questions.

Hi,
Thanks for your email,
I had an app made and didn’t have it finished . I was upset that Upwork didn’t have some kind of cover or vetting system . I spent thousands and it isn’t finished nit sure what to do ?

Kind regards,

re: "I had an app made and didn’t have it finished... I spent thousands and it isn’t finished. Not sure what to do?"

 

First:

Decide: What is your goal?

Clients who have had experiences such as yours don't all have the same goal. You should choose ONE goal and focus on that. Choose among these:

a) I want to complete the creation of this app

b) I want to put this all behind me, and I want advice on how to move on and find closure

c) I don't want to finish the app. I want to get as much money back as possible.

d) I don't want to finish the app or get any money back. I want the freelancers who worked on it to be punished as much as possible.

e) Something else (please specify).

 

If you tell us what your goal is, we can help you pursue your goal and/or provide information about the possibility of pursuing that goal.

 

If you do not know what your goal is, then that's okay! You don't need to do anything right now. You may think about this question for as long as you want, and when you decide what your goal is, we can help you pursue it or learn about it.

Hi ,
I want to finish my app.
I did ask for refund , I got offered something like $60 or something ? The freelancer actually took £400 more than should of. Also my app doesn’t work . Just gutted as my friend who passed away had left me money and I have nothing left and my dream shattered. I honestly thought that Upwork would have more in place for this type of thing?

Thank you

re: "I honestly thought that Upwork would have more in place for this type of thing?"

 

I'm sorry. This happens sometimes. Refund thinking hurts clients. New clients don't always understand what services Upwork actually provides.

Upwork allows clients to find, hire, and pay freelancers.

Upwork does not provide project management services.

But clients CAN hire project managers on Upwork.

 

re: "I want to finish my app... my app doesn’t work."

 

Developing an app is a process. Here is how you an finish your app.

 

Step 1:

Understand that Upwork doesn't provide apps.

But Upwork does allow clients to hire people who can work on apps.

 

Step 2:

Understand that when you hire a developer to work on your app, it is not the developer's responsibility to make sure that the app works. It is not Upwork's responsibility. It is the project manager's responsibility.

 

Step 3:

Hire three different app developers to provide you with consultation. In the job posting, which is for an hourly job, make sure that you emphasize that the app developers you hire will NOT do any work, but will only look at the app source code files you have right now and provide a written assessment about how you can continue working with the files, or if you should start over. Hire them for 1 hour each.

 

Step 4:

If you don't know how to act as project manager yourself, then you need to hire an independent project manager.

This applies to you.

There is no way for you to finish your app without an independent project manager.

 

Step 5:

Work through your project manager to hire MULTIPLE freelancers to work on your app. Make sure that you regularly fire and hire new freelancers. Continue working only with the freelancers who provide you with the most value. Fire underperforming freelancers. Your project manager should evaluate the work done by all of the freelancers. The developers and project manager must show you regular progress, which you can test out on your own.

 

Come back to the Forum regularly to discuss your ideas and progress. We love to talk about these things and we want to see clients succeed in achieving their goals.

Hi,

Wow thanks for the advice

Thank you

Hi Jade,

 

I'm sorry to hear that your contract with this freelancer didn't turn out the way you have expected. Please check out the information Andrea shared with you on how to dispute the said hours. The help articles she shared contains helpful information about how you can request for refund and the dispute process.

~ Joanne
Upwork
petra_r
Community Member


Joanne Marie P wrote:

Please check out the information Andrea shared with you on how to dispute the said hours. 


This happened months ago. There is no way to dispute any hours now.

Hi Jade,

 

I'm sorry to hear about this. I checked and it looks like this was an Hourly Contract. Please know that when hiring on an Hourly Contract you have 5 days every week to dispute the freelancer's hours if you feel that you have been billed for more time than they worked on your project. 

 

Disputes must be filed by the Friday after the freelancer bills the hours. If you miss this window, you and your freelancer should work together to resolve any issues and discuss your freelancer submitting a refund.

~Andrea
Upwork
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