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0814a04f
Community Member

Sue Upwork

I spent thousands on Upwork for a con-artist freelancer who claimed he could deliver my project as described in the project description.

 

The project timeline was 1 to 3 months with clear, detailed deliverables. It's now a year later and they did not deliver a working application.

 

We were going back-and-forth for months - he tried claiming it works and when I showed it doesn't work with explicit screenshots, etc. he told me after a day or two that it should now be fixed while it was never fixed.

 

I contacted Upwork support over two months ago to get my money back, I showed them exactly what was going on with supporting evidence, they confirmed I was scammed by being charged thousands by freelancers who can't and don't plan on delivering the project deliverables, and to my surprise, all they offered was to pull me around the past couple of months just like my con-artist freelancer.

 

They kept on telling me something like: Oh, I see, let's contact him again and ask him again to fix it again...

 

I was fed up from playing these endless games and replied:

image.png

 

Their response though was something like: I can understand the frustration, wasted time, money and effort only to receive a non-working software bla, bla, bla... but we will do nothing to help you get your money back because this was an hourly project and according to Upwork term of services they are technically just a payment processing platform and they take responsibility what so ever.

 

I asked them a simple question: So I can technically go onto Upwork, claim that I build satellites, get a client to pay me $40 Billion for my so-called work and just walk away without doing my job if I do it on an hourly basis and Upwork will do nothing to help the scammed client get his money back?

 

Their response was nothing short of assuring that I'm 100% correct, I could scam Upwork clients without paying any consequences as long as I do it on an hourly basis.

 

I'd like to sue Upwork for:

  1. Allowing freelancers to scam me on their platform.
  2. Doing nothing to help me get my money back - thus, supporting the con-artist freelancer.
  3. Still allowing the freelancer's agency and its employees to operate on Upwork without refunding my stolen money - thus, being able to scam new clients.
  4. Falsely marketing itself as a secure freelancer marketplace and dispute mediator in case it's needed and hiding the real face of Upwork in the terms of service.

Big tobacco firms were sued because of marketing smoking as a luxury while it is dangerous and not displaying a large, clear, bold warning message even though you were able to find a health warning in some legal terms and conditions fine print.

 

If you were involved in a recent lawsuit against Upwork please let me know how you went about it, attorney references, etc.

 

If you were involved in a similar dispute with Upwork, please let me know your story to join me in building the case against Upwrok in my lawsuit.

 

P.S. Upwork, I've shared this discussion link in other online networks, doing anything to try to remove/disable/hide etc. this discussion will only hurt.

81 REPLIES 81
davishavens
Community Member

Hi Martin.

I have no relation to upwork, you or your rant. However, I do believe this.. if you spent as much effort towards creating your software as you are attempting to complain with hot air, then you’d already be more successful in your endeavors.

Best of luck!

@David H. I definitly spent hours upon hours for the past months working on this project...

AveryO
Community Manager
Community Manager

Hi Martin, 

I'm sorry to learn about your experience with this freelancer. I looked into this and can see that a member of the team has reached out to you through Ticket #27058002 with more information about your issue. If you have further concerns that you wish to discuss with the team, please feel free to reply on the same ticket thread so that the team handling your case can assist you further. 


~ Avery
Upwork
0814a04f
Community Member

@Avery O.

 

I've been geting these answers from Upwork support for the past couple of months as explained in my initian discussion message and I'm fed up.

 

There is a reason I started this discussion. Those long, pointless answers does not help anyone.

I'm sorry that this happened to you, but I think that a lawsuit would be a further waste of your time and money. All Upwork did was to connect you with this freelancer - they did not recommend that you hire him (that was your decision) and they didn't make any claims about his abilities nor guarantee that he would successfully complete your job. So I don't think that you'll be able to claim false advertising or misrespresentation (BTW, hundreds of individuals sued the tobacco companies for decades, and didn't get a dime). 

 

What I don't understand is, why did you work with this freelancer for such a long time? If I hired somebody and we agreed on a 1-3 month deadline, I wouldn't continue working with them and giving them money for a whole year.

 

But if what you say is true, then I wish you success in removing this freelancer from the platform. 

 

@Christina A.

I can understand that a complexed project could somtimes take a little longer than initially expected and I didn't start to be concerned untill month 4 but he kept on telling me all sorts of excuses, why it doesn't work and why it will work tomorrow so my only option was to try to get them to complete the project as completion was always just one day ahead...

 

Once I noticed they are taking me on a ride and they don't have the means to complete the project I contacted Upwork support who simply took me on a similor ride.

 

Upwork should have the basic responsibility to ensure this does not happen and help scammed victims in case anything like this happens.

 

Upwork simply has the option to tell the freelancer and his agency: You were involved in charging a client thousands without delivering the deliverables, we cannot have this happening on our platform and we will have to close all your agency's operations to ensure other Upwork clients don't get scammed as well unless you (the freelancer) refunds the whole project so we know we could trust you and you won't do this again.

 

If Upwork does not do this they are complicit and an active partner in this fraud by supporting a freelancer who scammed me and keeing him on the platform where he can scam other vulnurable clients.

 

Wining the lawsuite is not my olny priority here, I'm also diong this to A) bring Upwork to the table as they are simply playing games with me and B) to let the world know the real face of Upwork.


Martin S wrote:

@Christina A.

I can understand that a complexed project could somtimes take a little longer than initially expected and I didn't start to be concerned untill month 4 but he kept on telling me all sorts of excuses, why it doesn't work and why it will work tomorrow so my only option was to try to get them to complete the project as completion was always just one day ahead...

 

Once I noticed they are taking me on a ride and they don't have the means to complete the project I contacted Upwork support who simply took me on a similor ride.

 

Upwork should have the basic responsibility to ensure this does not happen and help scammed victims in case anything like this happens.

 

Upwork simply has the option to tell the freelancer and his agency: You were involved in charging a client thousands without delivering the deliverables, we cannot have this happening on our platform and we will have to close all your agency's operations to ensure other Upwork clients don't get scammed as well unless you (the freelancer) refunds the whole project so we know we could trust you and you won't do this again.

 

If Upwork does not do this they are complicit and an active partner in this fraud by supporting a freelancer who scammed me and keeing him on the platform where he can scam other vulnurable clients.

 

Wining the lawsuite is not my olny priority here, I'm also diong this to A) bring Upwork to the table as they are simply playing games with me and B) to let the world know the real face of Upwork.


In the hourly jobs you pay freelancer time, not the quality or amount of work done.
As you have already been told, it is strange that, if the work was not being done, you would continue to work with the same person for so long.
Once you've seen part of the work, you review it, ask for corrections and these are not done, I'm afraid you should have closed the contract, requested a refund (total or partial) and sought another freelance.
Keeping the job for a long time without results is nonsense.
Now, you have neither the money nor the work done.

 

I am very sorry for what happened to you. I think you learned the hard way, but there are many quality freelancers here.
Just look for them.
I hope it solves, if not all, much of your problem.


Maria T wrote:

In the hourly jobs you pay freelancer time, not the quality or amount of work done.
As you have already been told, it is strange that, if the work was not being done, you would continue to work with the same person for so long.
Once you've seen part of the work, you review it, ask for corrections and these are not done, I'm afraid you should have closed the contract, requested a refund (total or partial) and sought another freelance.
Keeping the job for a long time without results is nonsense.
Now, you have neither the money nor the work done.

 

I am very sorry for what happened to you. I think you learned the hard way, but there are many quality freelancers here.
Just look for them.
I hope it solves, if not all, much of your problem.


Although this was an hourly project, it had clear defined deliverables in the project description to be delivered within a budget cap and a 1-3 month timeline. The only reason I did it hourly is that the freelancer told me he only wants to do this hourly.

 

The freelancer accepting the project essentially agrees to the project description and gets paid for doing his job which is delivering the project deliverables - even though the payment type was set up to be hourly.

 

I did not pay the freelancer once he reached the project budget cap which was at about 4 months into the project, still too early for me to determine that he won't end up delivering the project deliverables and filing a dispute. The past 8 months I was only trying to have them fix their broken application to no avail.

 

When it comes to software development it is very hard to know if the developer knows what he is doing, he did build some sort of non-working software and kept on telling me that it's not working because of x, y, z, and it should be fixed tomorrow, etc.

 

For example, he told me it's not working because of my hosting, so we spent weeks setting up the application on several different hosting providers - from shared hosting providers to dedicated hosting to AWS and got nowhere.

 

When you hire a painter to paint your home and he ends up scraping the walls in preparation to paint and does not end up painting them he essentially scammed you no matter if he was paid on an hourly basis or project-based.

AveryO
Community Manager
Community Manager

Hi Martin, 


I understand how this can be frustrating for you. However, our team is unable to discuss this here to comply with our privacy policy. It would be best to discuss your concern further with the team handling your concern so that they can assist you further. 


~ Avery
Upwork
0814a04f
Community Member


Avery O wrote:

Hi Martin, 


I understand how this can be frustrating for you. However, our team is unable to discuss this here to comply with our privacy policy. It would be best to discuss your concern further with the team handling your concern so that they can assist you further. 


I understand, but if I do it all behind closed doors I know I wont get far as I've been dragged around the passed couple of months without any realistic help from Upwork.

mcpilot
Community Member

Something's not adding up here. 

 

Did you vet the freelancer initially? Did they have ratings, feedback, a portfolio?

 

Were they just incompetent, or are they clearly running a scam? If the latter, I can't imagine Upwork would allow the profile to remain viable. 

 

This sounds like a contract more suited for milestones rather than hourly where you can simply not release the payment until a milestone is properly met.  

 

Have you thoroughly read the TOS? Can you point to a place in the TOS where Upwork has failed to meet their obligation under same? 

I totally understand the OP's point of view in this case and I can also understand where he went wrong, a project like his was not suitable under hourly contract for sure; but having said that I can also understand for inexperienced clients words like "payment protections" can give a false sense of security however as always devil is in the details. 

 

As for milestones (fixed price) I have my own experience to share, I work both as a freelancer and as a client. So I had hired a freelancer for a project lets say to draw 3 illustrations of Cat, Dog and a Mouse each associated with its particular milestone but from my initial project listing, to communicating with freelancer, to offering the contract I have explicitly mentioned that these milestones will be taken into totality, completing one milestone and not completing others will void our agreement which the freelancer happily accepted as a Cat drawn by one artist while the other two by another will never match the style. 

 

He worked on the first draft of the first milestone and then disappeared, stipulated deadlines were passed, I kept on messaging him consecutively for a couple of days, started giving him notice that his non-responsivness will lead to termination and after getting tried of it, I filed for a dispute (for escrow funds). As soon as the dispute was filed he became active on UW and started taking a plee that since I do not require the work anymore as if the project is cancelled hence I am going for a dispute. On the other hand on same project listing, for the very same milestones, and exactly the same price I hired another freelancer (so he was clearly wrong) while the outcome of the dispute was that escrow funds were released to this freelancer and also refunded to me.

From my prespective UW played a zero sum game as they were going to make money on the project eitherway as I had hired another freelancer for the same sum and deliverables. But as being a client I think it was absolutly unfair towards a client(s), a freelancer that has violated his agreement with a client, missed all the deadlines, disappeared completely for days while the client is repetadly leaving messages and in the end he is rewarded by releasing escrow funds into his favour as well; I find it absolutely wrong and in a way it is encouraging and quite rewarding towards the non-serious, unprofessional freelancers. 

As being a freelancer I always go an extra mile for my clients so that they can have an impeccable experience with me (unlitmately it is beneficial for UW) so the overall outcome of this dispute has definitely left a bad taste.  I would like other experienced members to shed some light, as in where I went wrong as a client or how this freelancer got away with it?


Rafeh G wrote:

I totally understand the OP's point of view in this case and I can also understand where he went wrong, a project like his was not suitable under hourly contract for sure; but having said that I can also understand for inexperienced clients words like "payment protections" can give a false sense of security however as always devil is in the details. 

 

As for milestones (fixed price) I have my own experience to share, I work both as a freelancer and as a client. So I had hired a freelancer for a project lets say to draw 3 illustrations of Cat, Dog and a Mouse each associated with its particular milestone but from my initial project listing, to communicating with freelancer, to offering the contract I have explicitly mentioned that these milestones will be taken into totality, completing one milestone and not completing others will void our agreement which the freelancer happily accepted as a Cat drawn by one artist while the other two by another will never match the style. 

 

He worked on the first draft of the first milestone and then disappeared, stipulated deadlines were passed, I kept on messaging him consecutively for a couple of days, started giving him notice that his non-responsivness will lead to termination and after getting tried of it, I filed for a dispute (for escrow funds). As soon as the dispute was filed he became active on UW and started taking a plee that since I do not require the work anymore as if the project is cancelled hence I am going for a dispute. On the other hand on same project listing, for the very same milestones, and exactly the same price I hired another freelancer (so he was clearly wrong) while the outcome of the dispute was that escrow funds were released to this freelancer and also refunded to me.

From my prespective UW played a zero sum game as they were going to make money on the project eitherway as I had hired another freelancer for the same sum and deliverables. But as being a client I think it was absolutly unfair towards a client(s), a freelancer that has violated his agreement with a client, missed all the deadlines, disappeared completely for days while the client is repetadly leaving messages and in the end he is rewarded by releasing escrow funds into his favour as well; I find it absolutely wrong and in a way it is encouraging and quite rewarding towards the non-serious, unprofessional freelancers. 

As being a freelancer I always go an extra mile for my clients so that they can have an impeccable experience with me (unlitmately it is beneficial for UW) so the overall outcome of this dispute has definitely left a bad taste.  I would like other experienced members to shed some light, as in where I went wrong as a client or how this freelancer got away with it?


I totally agree with you and Upwork should be held accountable for their actions.

0814a04f
Community Member


Patrick M wrote:

Something's not adding up here. 

 

Did you vet the freelancer initially? Did they have ratings, feedback, a portfolio?

 

Were they just incompetent, or are they clearly running a scam? If the latter, I can't imagine Upwork would allow the profile to remain viable. 

 

This sounds like a contract more suited for milestones rather than hourly where you can simply not release the payment until a milestone is properly met.  

 

Have you thoroughly read the TOS? Can you point to a place in the TOS where Upwork has failed to meet their obligation under same? 


I actually worked with this freelancer before and was ok with their work, this project was a little different and required different skills, they assured me they can definitely do it within the timeframe and budget cap but ended up screwing me as they were simply incompetent.

 

If you sell anything without delivering do you end up keeping your money? If so you are a scam. When Bernie Madoff started his Ponzi scheme he was actually investing the money but he ended up in prison because, in the end, he took people's money without properly investing them.

 

Although this was an hourly project, it had clear defined deliverables in the project description to be delivered within a budget cap. The only reason I did it hourly is that the freelancer told me he only wants to do this hourly.

 

In regard to TOS, my claim is that Upwork is falsely marketing itself as a secure freelancer marketplace and dispute mediator in case it's needed and hiding the real face of Upwork in the terms of service.

 

Big tobacco firms were sued because of marketing smoking as a luxury while it is dangerous and not displaying a large, clear, bold warning message even though you were able to find a health warning in some legal terms and conditions fine print.

It is possible to use fixed-price contracts for web development, mobile app development, and other programming projects.

 

But in order for that to work, the project manager needs to know how to use the fixed-price contract model successfully. This includes reviewing, testing, and archiving all submissions.

 

If the project owner's goal is to obtain a high-quality product, the hourly contract model works better than the fixed-price contract model. This is because the developers have an incentive to produce code which is high-quality. The fixed-price contract model is based on producing what is specified in a task specification. If something works, and fits the requirement, then it is done. Even if more work could be done to make it even better.


So the fixed-price contract model is best for development projects which have a tight budget, and for which quality is not a primary factor.

 

Everybody who manages a development project should keep in mind:

You can have it fast.

You can have it cheap.

You can have it good.

Pick two.

 

This is a principle of programming and software development. It is not something that the freelancer or client can "choose" to exempt themselves from.

 

Whether a project uses the fixed-price or hourly contract model, the project manager needs to know how to use the chosen contract model effectively.

 

Two of the main causes we see when programming project clients get into trouble when using Upwork are:

- Not having a qualified project manager

- Not understanding how Upwork works

 

Upwork does not provide programming, websites, mobile apps or anything of the sort. Upwork provides an opportunity to hire people who can work on these projects. But hiring people does not imply project management. Upwork does not directly provide project management.

 

And only about 20% of lead devs can effectively serve as their own project manager. So if a project owner hires a developer or group of developers and is neither qualified to serve as the project manager, nor hires an effective independent project manager, then the project has an 80% chance of failing.


Preston H wrote:

....

Everybody who manages a development project should keep in mind:

You can have it fast.

You can have it cheap.

You can have it good.

Pick two.

....

Upwork does not provide programming, websites, mobile apps or anything of the sort. Upwork provides an opportunity to hire people who can work on these projects. But hiring people does not imply project management. Upwork does not directly provide project management.

....

Two of the main causes we see when programming project clients get into trouble when using Upwork are:

- Not having a qualified project manager

- Not understanding how Upwork works

....


I'm not complaining about code quality etc. I simply did not get a working application at all.

 

In regard to project management, the freelancer I'm talking about is actually part of an agency that also provided a project manager for this project.

 

In regard to "understanding how Upwork works", my claim is that Upwork is falsely marketing itself as a secure freelancer marketplace and dispute mediator in case it's needed and hiding the real face of Upwork in the terms of service.

 

Big tobacco firms were sued because of marketing smoking as a luxury while it is dangerous and not displaying a large, clear, bold warning message even though you were able to find a health warning in some legal terms and conditions fine print.

 

Upwork should have the basic responsibility to ensure this does not happen and help scammed victims in case anything like this happens.

 

Upwork simply has the option to tell the freelancer and his agency: You were involved in charging a client thousands without delivering the deliverables, we cannot have this happening on our platform and we will have to close all your agency's operations to ensure other Upwork clients don't get scammed as well unless you (the freelancer) refunds the whole project so we know we could trust you and you won't do this again.

 

If Upwork does not do this they are complicit and an active partner in this fraud by supporting a freelancer who scammed me and keeping him on the platform where he can scam other vulnerable clients.

re: "In regard to project management, the freelancer I'm talking about is actually part of an agency that also provided a project manager for this project."

 

By definition, this project manager failed.

 

If the project manager had succeeded, you would not have a complaint about having spent thousands of dollars with "nothing to show for it."

 

The project owner did not act as a project manager.

The project owner did not hire an independent project manager.

The lead dev did not act as a project manager.

 

Nobody acted as a project manager in any meaningful sense of the word.


Preston H wrote:

By definition, this project manager failed.

 

If the project manager had succeeded, you would not have a complaint about having spent thousands of dollars with "nothing to show for it."

 

The project owner did not act as a project manager.

The project owner did not hire an independent project manager.

The lead dev did not act as a project manager.

 

Nobody acted as a project manager in any meaningful sense of the word.


Either way, the bottom line is that a freelancer took my money without delivering the project deliverables and Upwork doesn't do anything to stop them.

 

As a freelancer, I'm sorry that you had a bad experience with one of us. There's a good reason why I always strive to do something right, preferably the first time. Both hourly and fixed-price clients deserve my best effort. Just to give you a different perspective: sometimes freelancers have trouble with their clients. In particular, doing the work and not getting paid. This is particularly true with fixed-price contracts. We sometimes have to wait two weeks after pushing "submit" to get paid if the client can't be bothered to look over our work. This can get really, really frustrating. We're lucky that there is payment protection at all. 

 

Nonetheless, I've dealt with scammers too. In particular, people who try to get me to work for free, or who just want to harvest my personal information through fake job offers. There are bad actors all around. Luckily, Upwork has been good enough to ban the scammers.

 

My reaction is this: give the jerk a one-star review. Complain to his agency, and let everyone know not to hire him. Keep in mind that the feedback system is skewed in the direction of the client: a bad review on a long-term contract will absolutely kill his success score. Cost him business in an amount more than he scammed out of you, and move on.

Not referring to any specific situation, but speaking generally:

 

Ultimately, the biggest problem with any attempt by a client to sue Upwork because the client is disappointed in work that a freelancer has done is this:

 

The client's efforts will fail, and the client will have wasted her time and money.

 

Upwork has millions of users and processes billions in payments. Its ToS and legal contract language that its users agree to are not accidental.

 

Aside from that, the other major problem with such a mindset is that it is antithetical to the client's success. Not just the act of suing, but the research about suing, and even the thought that suing might be a way to dig out of a hole... all undermine a client's success.

 

Any time you see a successful website or mobile app or other development project... you can be assured that it was created by thinkers and doers and developers and creative people. It was not created by lawyers suing people.

 

Effective project owners know that the success of their project must not hinge on the work of a single freelancer. They plan accordingly. They remove underperforming members from their team and they continue working with the team members who provide the most value to their project.

What I fail to understand is why this went on for so long. You worked with this freelancer for several months, that too, on an hourly rate basis... Why did it take you so long to realise what he was doing? If (and that's a big if) the freelancer is genuinely incompetent, then this should have been evident from the start. 

 

If he was truly a con artist and managed to scam you, then that honestly sucks, but I feel that to some extent some of the blame falls on you for allowing yourself to be billed thousands of dollars without actually checking the quality of the work. I haven't hired on Upwork before, and if I did, I'd hire a veteran, but if I did choose to hire someone new, I would probably be up their ass cross-checking their every move.

 

All the best with getting your money back. Also, if push comes to shove, sue the freelancer, not Upwork. One has a team of lawyers and have probably covered all of their liabilities. The other does not.

0814a04f
Community Member


Varun G wrote:

What I fail to understand is why this went on for so long.

...


When it comes to complexed software development it's very hard to know if the developer knows what he is doing.

 

He built some sort of good-looking, non-working software and kept on telling me that it's not working because of x, y, z, and it should be fixed tomorrow.

 

For example, he told me it's not working because of my hosting provider, so we spent weeks setting up and testing the application on several different hosting providers - from shared hosting providers to dedicated hosting to AWS and got nowhere, then he said oh I see, we just have to change this and it will work which took another few weeks.

 


Varun G wrote:

If he was truly a con artist and managed to scam you, then that honestly sucks, but I feel that to some extent some of the blame falls on you for allowing yourself to be billed thousands

...


Without getting stuck on my namings... He billed me for a service he did not provide. Period.

 

When you hire a painter to paint your home and he ends up scraping the walls in preparation to paint and does not end up painting them he essentially scammed you no matter if he was paid on an hourly basis or project-based.

varungs
Community Member

When you hire a painter to paint your home and he ends up scraping the walls in preparation to paint and does not end up painting them he essentially scammed you no matter if he was paid on an hourly basis or project-based.

 

I hear where you're coming from, I really do. Unfortunately, Upwork doesn't work like that. With a fixed price contract, you can clearly set out your expectations, and the freelancer is only entitled to a payment after the stipulated conditions are met. Granted, this has a higher chance of leading to shoddy / lower quality work, but it guarantees that you get exactly what you need.

 

Hourly projects don't work like that. Even if you have mutually determined an end goal with the freelancer, you will be billed on an hourly basis, and if any point you choose to terminate the freelancer, the project basically ends there. I think this system certainly leaves a lot to be desired - I believe that the end goal should be taken into consideration, too - but that's just how the cards have been dealt. You weren't scammed if the freelancer was actually making an effort to meet your required end goal during those billed hours. Whether he ends up actually meeting that goal or not is irrelevant in these types of contracts. Nonetheless, good luck.


Preston H wrote:

Not referring to any specific situation, but speaking generally:

...


My end goal here is not to sue anyone.

 

It's insane and unacceptable that Upwork doesn't have the minimum responsibility to tell the freelancer: "You were involved in charging a client thousands without delivering the deliverables, we cannot have this happening on our platform and we will have to close all your agency's operations to ensure other Upwork clients don't get scammed as well unless you (the freelancer) refunds the whole project so we know we could trust you and you won't do this again".

 

My goal is to wake up the masses to what is going on here and keep Upwork responsible for their actions no matter if they are or aren't "technically" responsible "according to some hidden, unknown ToS".

0814a04f
Community Member

In case you wondered what Upwork's response was, see this discussion: https://community.upwork.com/t5/Clients/Upwork-does-not-care-if-you-get-scammed-See-Support-screensh...

0814a04f
Community Member

In case you wondered if Upwork will help you in case you get scammed on their platform, here's their response in a so-called 'Support' chat regarding a case where I was scammed thousands on Upwork:

 

**Edited for Community Guidelines**

 

This is in regard to this case: https://community.upwork.com/t5/Clients/Sue-Upwork/td-p/680223

 

It's about time Upwork clients should stand up for their rights and demand basic protection.

Martin, I am sorry if you have been disappointed by some of your experiences while using Upwork.

 

The problem is that you want Upwork to provide certain services that is simply does not offer.

 

Like all of us, you will need to choose to use Upwork based on the services and functionality that it does offer, or choose to not use it. It is not fair to you, and it is not fair to Upwork, to desire to hold Upwork accountable for not doing something that it does not claim to do.


Preston H wrote:

The problem is that you want Upwork to provide certain services that is simply does not offer.


Simple client protection is not 'some different services' that I should get somewhere else, it is the basics that every company, in every industry out there provides.

 

If Upwork does not care when people get scammed on their platform and instead reply like the ugly screenshot I provided above, they should be called out for it in public. Period.

Each company offers different goods and services.

 

It is not clear to me why you are saying that every company offers the same type of client protection. Has not Upwork itself demonstrated that this is not a true statement?

 

Upwork has consistently applied its posted rules and policies while dealing with you.

 

It seems to be your preference that if you spend money while working with a freelancer that has been hired using an hourly contract, that Upwork will guarantee some specific outcome, or get you your money back. That is not a service or guarantee that Upwork offers.

 

 Nor do most companies. Twitter, Facebook, LinkedIn, Freelancer.com and other major companies offer no such guarantee.

If you are serious about a large development project, then you will need to use an independent project manager, or act as project manager yourself.

 

I do not believe that you did either.

 

I believe that you relied on the lead dev to be the project manager. But only about 20% of lead devs can do that. I believe that the lead dev you hired was among the 80%.

I had a project manager.


Preston H wrote:

Upwork has consistently applied its posted rules and policies while dealing with you.

Thats not an answer but a question.

 

Upwork's rules are rigged and they should be called out for what they really are.


Martin S wrote:


Simple client protection is not 'some different services' that I should get somewhere else, it is the basics that every company, in every industry out there provides.

 

Every industry out there monitors your interactions with third parties and then intervenes in any disputes you might have with the third party and takes money from one and gives it to the other (even though doing so would breach its contract with the user)?

 

Can you provide some examples?

Upwork offers clients an opportunity to find, hire and pay freelancers.

 

MANY Upwork clients have been disappointed in a way similar to the original poster. I myself have suggested (in other threads) that there are gaps in Upwork's messaging efforts... gaps that have led clients to assume services or guarantees not actually offered.

 

But none of that changes the fact that Upwork itself does not offer free project management services. Nor does it sell tangible work product such as websites, mobile apps or software.

 

Upwork is a powerful tool, but ultimately it is just a tool. It has uses and it also has limitations.


Tiffany S wrote:

Martin S wrote:


Simple client protection is not 'some different services' that I should get somewhere else, it is the basics that every company, in every industry out there provides.

 

Every industry out there monitors your interactions with third parties and then intervenes in any disputes you might have with the third party and takes money from one and gives it to the other (even though doing so would breach its contract with the user)?

 

Can you provide some examples?


Each and every online or offline platform makes sure people should not get scammed on their platform.

 

👉 Have you ever tried selling a forged product on Amazon?

👉 Have you ever tried selling on Walmart and not delivering the product?

👉 Have you ever tried selling a product for a supermarket which is essentially an empty box and when the customer opens it they find... nothig?

 

Each of the above scanerios would get you out of business in a matter of seconds.

 

But thats not the case with Upwork.

 

Upwork will do nothing if you were cammed on their platform and will even allow the freelancer to further operate on Upwork and scam more clients.

 

Let's put it the other way around: Do you know a single platform where you can sell a service without delivering it, pay no consquesnces and stay on the platform to scam others?

Hi.

We spent over 50k and didn’t receive what we paid for . We had the same experience you did. I don’t want to get into details , but you have a lot of good points here . In our case , we will file a lawsuit against the freelancer. Yes , we will most likely name upwork as an additional defendant . Will see where that goes . We are in San Francisco and the freelancer is in another country , India. We will use the Hague convention for process and most likely get a judgment against the freelancer here in San Francisco . We will then move to enforce that judgment in India . I know we most likely will not collect , but it’s important for the software community to understand that this process is unfortunately the legal way of working to get a resolve the issue . We will try mediation with upwork in parallel . I’ll let ya know how it goes .

Hello Ron,

 

Sorry about the delayed reply here but I see that our customer support team has already been assisting you with your concern directly via your support request and have provided more information. You can access the support request here or via an email notification.

~ Valeria
Upwork

re: "We are in San Francisco and the freelancer is in another country , India. I know we most likely will not collect..."

 

Why are you saying that you are going to file a lawsuit if you know ahead of time that you won't collect any money from doing so?

The purpose of the lawsuits isn’t just about money , it’s about preventing **Edited for Community Guidelines** from doing business on this platform and taking money from other customers . I think I can accomplish at least that.

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