What if you don’t like the work and want to hire another freelancer

[angadbhat]

Hi,

I hired a freelancer but I am not happy with the work thus far. How can I hire another and fire the current? Do I still have to pay the current freelancer for the work he did which i am not going to use or like.

[petra_r]

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angad B wrote:

I hired a freelancer but I am not happy with the work thus far. How can I hire another and fire the current?.

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You can end the freelancer and hire someone else.

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angad B wrote:
 Do I still have to pay the current freelancer for the work he did which i am not going to use or like.

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In general, yes.  Is it an hourly or fixed rate contract?

[angadbhat]

It is fixed price project. But we haven’t used any work and don’t like what have been done so far. It was about logo design and website building. The logo itself is not good so haven’t asked to start on website at all. Two versions were given which are pretty much same and of no quality.

[angadbhat]

How can i do it?

[prestonhunter]

re: "what if you don't like the work and want to hire another freelancer?"

That is fine.

You are not required to like the work.

You may hire another freelancer.

It is often a very good business decision to hire multiple freelancers.

If you hire only one freelancers how can you compare their work and choose the best? You only have one choice, so it is impossible to compare.

re: "I hired a freelancer but I am not happy with the work thus far."

That happens. You should always put your own needs and your project first. Do not put the interests of any single freelancer ahead of your own interests.

If you are not happy with the work done by a feeelancer, then don't use that work. Stop working with an underperforming freelancer immediately.

re: "How can I hire another and fire the current?"

To hire another freelancer, simply repeat the same steps you used to hire the original feeelancer.

You may hire one of the other candidates from the first job posting. Or you may post a new job posting and hire new people.

To fire the current freelancer, just navigate to the job listing, click on the "three dots" icon, and choose "close contract" or "end contract."

re: "Do I still have to pay the current freelancer for the work he did which i am not going to use or like."

Short answer: Yes.

Longer answer:

There ARE ways to try to avoid paying. You can search this Forum or the Upwork Help section for more information. You can ask for more information here in this thread. But to be perfectly frank, you would only be undermining your own interests if you pursue that path. It would mean putting an unworthy freelancer's interests ahead of your own. It would be better to just end the contract and move on. Do not waste your time and effort on that person.

But, yes, if you really want to try to get money back... you may ask the freelancer to refund your money. You may ask informally. Or (because this is a fixed-price contract) you may close the contract and edit the amount of money to be released, changing it to zero, and that will trigger a request to the freelancer to refund your money.

[angadbhat]

Thanks for the response. Regarding the payment my budget is $100 if i pay all that to the current freelancer then I can’t pay another one.

[petra_r]

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angad B wrote:
Thanks for the response. Regarding the payment my budget is $100 if i pay all that to the current freelancer then I can’t pay another one.

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How much is in Escrow?

[angadbhat]

$100 in escrow

[petra_r]

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angad B wrote:
$100 in escrow

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Negotiate with the freelancer.

Tell him or her that you really appreciate the effort, but that you can see now that you are not on the same page and that you'd rather not waste more of their time.

Explain that you won't be using their designs, but would like to compensate them for their time.

Ask what they think is a fair amount.

Take it from there-

[angadbhat]

So i have ended the contract and paid freelancer $10 out of $100 in escrow. Can i use the remaining amount to hire another freelancer for the same job post? If yes, how can i do it and if no, then what are my options?

[prestonhunter]

Angad:

If you released $10 out of $100 to the freelancer, then the remaining $90 will be returned AUTOMATICALLY  to your funding account. If you paid with a credit card, the $90 will go back to that card. If you paid using PayPal, it will go back to your PayPal account. Etc.

Processing the funds back to your account can take up to five business days.

You are welcome to hire other freelancers immediately. Or you may wait until the money goes back to your funding account.

There is not a way to directly transfer the refund from one escrow payment onto a payment for another freelancer.

[angadbhat]

Ok thanks. The freelancer has filed a dispute. I don’t understand why because the second milestone work which was website template was bigger and complex was not even started. The first milestone itself was not achieved as we didn’t like the quality. What happens next?

[prestonhunter · Accepted solution]

re: "The freelancer has filed a dispute. I don’t understand why"

The freelancer filed a dispute because he wants more money than you are offering.

He would rather have $100 than $10.

re: "I don’t understand why because the second milestone work which was website template was bigger and complex was not even started. The first milestone itself was not achieved as we didn’t like the quality."

I don't know the details of you situation. I do not know exactly how the contract is set up. But I can tell you this:

If there is a milestone for a fixed-price contract (for example: website template), and the freelancer has not done ANY work on that milestone, then the freelancer SHOULD immediately agree to refund the milestone payment for that task if you (the client) ask for a refund AND if the freelancer has not done any work on that task.

This is the honorable, professional, right thing for any freelancer to do.

If you were planning (for example) to pay the freelancer $90 for the website template, and there is a $90 escrow payment in place for that, but then you change your mind about the project and ask for a refund of that $90... If the freelancer has not started that work, then she SHOULD give you a refund, without argument.

This represents good customer service.

HOWEVER: If the freelancer has already started work on the task, but not yet finished, then you should pay based on the percentage of the work that has been done.

For example, if the freelancer has completed 50% of the work on the task, and the price for the task is $90, then you should pay 50% of the price: $45.00.

But you need to understand that these are points of honor and professionalism. The Upwork user interface itself is just software. It has NO WAY of knowing how much of the task has been done. The Upwork website is not capable of looking at any project and deciding if the project is of high or low quality. The software can not see if a project has been completed or not.

This means that as far as the Upwork interface is concerned, it is possible for a freelancer to do ZERO work, and then click a submit button claiming the work is done.

It is also possible for a freelancer to complete a task 100%, and then a client could click a button to request a refund for the work, even though the work was completed. The system actually requires cooporation among humans to work properly.

I don't think you completely understand how fixed-price contracts work.

ANY time you create a fixed-price contract, then ANY money you put into an escrow payment is money that you might never get back.

It is not Upwork's intention that clients ever get that money back.

It is Upwork's intention that the money be released to the freelancer.

re: "The first milestone itself was not achieved as we didn’t like the quality."

This is a key thing that you have misunderstood about fixed-price contracts. Upwork very explicitly states that they do not guarantee the quality of the work that a freelancer provides as part of a fixed-price contract.

Imagine this scenario:

A client hires a freelancer to draw a picture of a cat. The fixed-pice payment is $10.

The freelancer then draws a picture of a cat, and sends that to the client.

The client hates the picture. The client claims that the picture is very low quality.

Upwork expects the client to release the money. Because the freelancer fulfilled the agreement as it was written: "draw a picture of a cat."

If the case went to arbitration, then the arbitrator would decide in favor of the freelancer, because the freelancer did what was asked.

But what about the fact that the picture was terrible? What can the client do?

The client may ask the freelancer for a full refund. Or a partial refund. It is up to the freelancer to decide whether or not to agree to that refund.

ALSO: the client may leave accurate feedback when closing the contract. For example, the client could say: "The freelancer drew a picture of a cat, but the picture was not of good quality. The cat only had 3 legs. The cast looked very sad. I did not like the picture."

ALSO (and this may be the most important thing): The client may choose to never hire that freelancer again.

ALSO: There is a "Request Changes" button on the client's side. A client may use those to stop payment, and ask the freelancer to make changes.

For example, if the task was "draw a picture of a cat wearing a funny hat," and the freelancer provided a picture of a cat, but the cat is not wearing a hat, it would be appropriate for the client to request changes to the work, and not pay the freelancer until the changes were finished.

HOWEVER: If the client in this scenario decided that he wanted the hat to have a feather sticking out if it, but he never actually mentioned the feather in the original written agreement, then it would not be appropriate for the client to use the "Request Changes" button. If the client wants the freelancer to draw a feather sticking out of the cap, then the client would need to release payment for the original task (releasing all money in escrow to the freelancer), and then ask the freelancer how much she would charge to draw a feather sticking out of the cap. The freelancer would tell the client how much she would charge for that. The client would then set up a new contract to pay for the new work [or] set up a new milestone within the existing contract [or] use the "Pay Bonus" tool to send a direct payment to the freelancer for the work [or] set up a new, hourly contract to pay for the new work.

re: "What happens next?"

What happens next is that this matter is now in the "dispute mediation." This means that a mediator (an employee of Upwork) will try to get the client (you) and the freelancer to come to an agreement about who gets the money.

[angadbhat]

But there is no work done. The job had two tasks logo and website building. He didn’t even start website work and logo design work was not good quality and he was asking me to give a logo for reference. For the work he did for logo it usually has $20-$25 but because I didn’t use his work and quality was not good I paid him $10.

I am not paying $100 for zero work achieved and wasting my time.

[prestonhunter]

Angad:

Obviously I'm on your side.

I have pointed out facts that you may be disappointed to hear about. But it is better that you have the facts. The more you understand how the system works, the better chance you will have at using it to your advantage.

If you hired a freelancer to do a task using a fixed-price contract, and the freelancer did not do that task, then the freelancer SHOULD refund the money for that task.

But Upwork's software doesn't understand that the freelancer didn't do the task. That is why the freelancer was able to file a "dispute" when you asked for money back.

You will now have an opportunity to explain to an Upwork mediator why you feel you should get money back. The mediator will hear your side, and she will also listen to the freelancer's side. But you should not think that this is like a "court case" or something. The amount of conversation the mediator will engage in may be limited. It is quite possible that the mediator will not look at the work that the freelancer did.

It is not the mediator's role to determine the quality of completeness of the work. Except in very rare circumstances, the mediator will NOT "render a decision." The mediator is prevented by escrow rules from doing so.

But if the freelancer really did no work on the assigned task, it may be difficult for the freelancer to defend his decision to not refund money to you. So the freelancer may indeed back down and agree to the refund.

ALSO: If the freelancer does NOT come to an agreement with you, then next step is arbitration, which costs $291 (non-refundable) for each party (client, freelancer, Upwork).

The freelancer may not want to go to abritration. Mathematically, going to arbitration is a losing proposition for all parties in this case. Because $90 is less than $291. The math is not complicated.

If the freelancer agrees to arbitration, but you do not, then the freelancer will receive all $90 remaining in escrow.

If you agree to arbitration, but the freelancer does not agree, then you (the client) will receive all $90.

Only if both freelancer and client agree to go to arbitration will you all be charged $291 and the case will go to arbitration. If you go to arbitration, then you might not receive any escrow money back. That would mean a net loss of $381 for you. If arbitration decides that all remaining esrow money goes to you, then you will have a net loss of only $201.

[angadbhat]

Ok, so ad I understand you now is that if I prove that the freelancer didn’t do the work then he can’t charge. Right? If that is the case then see below.

My job had two tasks and it was agreed with freelancer in the messages (chat in Upwork) that upon task 1 completion the task 2 will start. Below are the two tasks (and as per the job title)

1. Logo design - This task would cost around $25 and would be easier of the two in terms of effort involved.

2. Website template - This task would cost around $75 and would involve more effort.

The freelancer never reached and so never started the work for task 2. This means they should not charge for the work they never started let alone finished.

Regarding, the task 1 I was not happy with the effort and quality of the work but because freelancer spent few hours over a period of 2 days, I paid him $10.

If you need proof of the work regarding task 1 then I can send you but task 2 was never done as we didn’t get there.

Can you tell me what sort of proof is required in this case?

[prestonhunter]

The evidence (or "proof") provided by both sides (client and freelancer) is considered during the arbitration process.

During dispute mediation (which is the process you are entering now), an Upwork employed mediator MAY look at such evidence. Or she might not. She will ask you for what she wants to see. She will ask you what questions she wants answered.

Whatever you or the freelancer provide to her or tell her, she is not going to make a decision. She MIGHT make a recommendation. For example, she MIGHT recommend that the freelancer consider refunding more money back to you.

But Upwork's despite mediator is not allowed to make a decision. She just facilitates communication between the two parties.

I appreciate the fact that you are explaining your side of the situation here in this thread. That is helpful to provide context. But nobody who participates in this thread can actually make a decision abou twho gets the money.

We can only offer you information and advice.

For future reference, to help make your Upwork hiring activities more successful, you should not start a business relationship with a new freelancer using large fixed-price milestones or contracts. Start small.

It would have been better if you set up a fixed-price contract for just $25 for logo design. You could have left the website template work out of the contract, and saved that for a later contract. That way, the most money that would have been at risk would be $25.

For now, however, you are facing a situation with a freelancer who reall SHOULD agree to return at least $75 to you. Because he didn't do the "website template" work at all. It would be even better if he returned $90 to you. I thought that was what he had agreed to do. But maybe you did not actually talk to him first? You just asked for $90, and he declined?

You could certainly ask the freelancer to come to this thread and explain his side of the story. It would be better if you and the freelancer could come to an agreement and resolve this matter amicably and quickly. Talking things over here in this thread would be a very fair and informative way to do that.

[angadbhat]

If freelancer has wrong attitude and no skills then I am afraid it doesn’t matter wether client is cheap or not. Also, freelancer shouldn’t apply if they think it is cheap is the first place. If you clearly say ”I understand the work and I am ready to take it” before accepting then the contract then have a decency to deliver it.

[petra_r]

You get what you pay for.  Brands pay thousands of Dollars just for a logo.

If you expected to pay $ 100 for a logo AND a website, you will get quality that is in line with your budget.

It's like everything else in life.  If I want a new watch, I can spend $ 5 for a cheap and nasty one from the market, or $ 200 for an Armani watch, or $ 10.000 for a Rolex.

They all keep time, but I wouldn't expect the one from the market to be comparable to the Rolex.

It sounds like you tried to buy a Rolex with a "watch from the market" budget.

[angadbhat]

I am sorry I have to disagree.

First of all there are loads of jobs completed relating to logo design and if you check most of them are between $10-$30. Also, i have got a logo done before here in this budget and it was much better. Unfortunately, the same freelancer wasn’t available.

Even if i take your statement that I came to buy Rolex with market budget, let me ask you something - if i came to you for such request what will you do? Will you tell me that it is not possible or will say give me your money and I will give a Rolex. If any freelancer thinks that budget is too low or work is not achievable in that budget then they should stay away from that job and not bid for it.

Not all companies especially startups have thousands to spend on logo.

[5fb17bf9]

Im sorry, but this sounds bad, i mean if i hire a freelancer, that has a good page profile, with all those shiny pictures he have in hes profile that shows clearly that hes good (( or maybe hes profile is full of lies )) so when i hire him, and i tell him about all my requarments and he agrees to everything, a cat thats wearing a hat and i show him a refrenses of other images when it comes to quality that im looking for and will pay for and all those stuff, then he will just make a lazy work with no effort at all, and still i should pay for that?? sure your going to say pay and look for another freelancer, so ill pay this guy and look for more freelancers and pay them for their bad work until i find that good freelancer? what if we work based on a budget? should i spend all my budget on bad freelancers who claim they can do those tasks but they lie? im sorry but i feel like this is more like a protection to the freelancer then to the clint, you cant blame me if this guy lied about what he can do. and you cant blame me for hiring him cause he have a top rated page in upwork, i have never faced a problem using upwork, and i love this site, but this is scaring me a lot to be honest, sorry if my english is not so good 

[gaonkarjayesh]

Yes, in my opinion you should pay his charges and get rid off, if you don’t like the work. As I am working for a website design company in Goa, we do hire freelancers to get our work done and we face similar issues many times.  However, in order to keep the good will we pay the agreed charges for the scope of work allotted to such freelancers and close the account.  Also, we tell the freelancers what are the reasons behind not to continue with him anymore.   I believe this will also help the freelancer to understand his mistakes and will help him to server better in the future.