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What's wrong with Upwork in my opinion

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Community Guru
Cristian-Adrian F Member Since: May 6, 2015
21 of 33

I see so many critics here, and I believe the one who can't face the reality here is the topic creator itself, not the ones who hired lately, as he just blew some steam off here, and didn't even consider anyone's opinion. As Pres said, some people hire for more money just to do some saving in terms of work quality and time.

 

Now the technical part: Meteor.js is cutting-edge technology, right, but after your initial post I come to the conclusion that you are an expert yourself, in these related technologies including Node.js.

 

Now, the thing that I don't understand is why picking Meteor for no God **bleep** reason? (Maybe legacy code?)

 

There are plenty other frameworks like Express for Node.js that's actually better, and I believe you'll be successful with pulling a freelancer or a MEAN developer to work with this technology for a certain app. I also strongly believe that setting a low rate has to do with either a novice programmer or with someone that has low self-esteem. Would you like that for your project? If the answer is no, then fork out some real money in this industry and stop blaming our rates PERIOD

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Community Guru
Preston H Member Since: Nov 24, 2014
22 of 33

re: "Most of my clients decide that they are willing to pay much higher rates only after they have tried the lower priced freelancers."

 

Daniel,

Yes, this is true for me as well.

 

But I have mixed feelings about you "spilling the beans" like this.

 

You and I both make a lot of money from the clients who started out hiring sub-rate freelancers. Should we really be so public about the secret to our success?

 

(I'm just kidding, of course. There will never been a shortage of people skimping on quality and needing a bail-out later.)

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Community Guru
Daniel C Member Since: Nov 21, 2010
23 of 33

"I have mixed feelings about you "spilling the beans" like this."

 

Haha!  I have mixed feelings about it too!  Smiley Wink

 

I'm not worried because Upwork will continue to churn out frustrated clients.  Primed and ready for developers like us.

 

The funny thing is, many developers consider themselves "Experts" according to their Overview.  I don't really think that I'm an expert in anything.  I learned about indexing PK/FKs in a business class so it's definately not expert level thinking.  It's not that I didn't already know, because it was one of the first things that I learned when creating database tables.  It puts things in perspective...  

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Community Guru
Jennifer M Member Since: May 17, 2015
24 of 33

That's happening with me right now, Daniel. Inexperienced client met with inexperienced, cheap development "company." They spent 7 months in development for what should have taken 2-3, but the developers bid a flat rate price and didn't even work with them to create a scope of work or business requirements. I think the developers figured out that they severely underbid, so now they are trying to extort the client for more than double what they originally bid. They are claiming intellectual property on their code and gave the client about 1/6 of the code base. lol

 

There's always a catch with the crazy cheap guy....

 

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Community Guru
Daniel C Member Since: Nov 21, 2010
25 of 33

Jennifer, did they hire them on Upwork?  That's ridiculous!

 

I don't think freelancers realize how often that this happens.  They get upset with Upwork for everything that they do to try and prevent this from happening.  It's unfortunate...

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Community Guru
Jennifer M Member Since: May 17, 2015
26 of 33

@Daniel C wrote:

Jennifer, did they hire them on Upwork?  That's ridiculous!

 

I don't think freelancers realize how often that this happens.  They get upset with Upwork for everything that they do to try and prevent this from happening.  It's unfortunate...


 

It's through Elance. These guys got raked over the coals. They are lucky that it wasn't *too* much money, but the devs should have just asked for more money. I think they assumed that they would make up for the hit in maintenance charges, but the client just said "thank you, please upload the code and we'll take it from here." So, they uploaded about a sixth of the code and said "pay me extra for my intellectual property." It's going into arbitration, but I can't believe anyone would do anything but give the client their money back. I'm curious to see what happens though.

 

It's a monument to what happens when you just choose the cheapest guy and think they just "vomit out code" and it's easy. 

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Community Guru
Daniel C Member Since: Nov 21, 2010
27 of 33

I think they assumed that they would make up for the hit in maintenance charges, but the client just said "thank you, please upload the code and we'll take it from here." So, they uploaded about a sixth of the code and said "pay me extra for my intellectual property." It's going into arbitration, but I can't believe anyone would do anything but give the client their money back. I'm curious to see what happens though.

 

It's sad when holding code for ransom is part of your business model.  I hope your client gets their money back and the developers are banned from using Uplance!

 

I don't really see what Elance can do because I'm sure a lot of the money has already left Elance and is in the developers hands.  

 

Either way, I'm pretty sure the TOS says that developers don't have intellectual rights when using the site.

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Community Guru
Preston H Member Since: Nov 24, 2014
28 of 33

re: "It's sad when holding code for ransom is part of your business model."

 

Yeah. I hear about this a lot and it really disgusts me.

 

I go out of my way to provide my clients complete, real-time access to everything I do for them.

 

I work on systems that clients have complete access to, and I don't work on any blocked-off or local system that they can't get to. I try to set things up so that they know it would be impossible for me to hold anything ransom.

 

Does this mean they could take stuff I do for them and then try to get away without paying me?

 

Hmmm... Yes, I guess so.


But that has never happened to me.

 

I try to establish a relationship of trust and I believe the clients appreciate that. The way I work won't work for EVERYBODY. I don't know how this would apply to a writer or graphic artist, etc. But as a back-end developer and database design specialist, this is what works for me.

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Rachella S Member Since: Aug 19, 2015
29 of 33

You seem to have answered your own question. You want to hire an expert with specific skills at an entry-level salary. That, my friend, is exploitation regardless of the country the freelancers live in.

 

BTW, if you can hire local talent at such reasonable prices why aren't you doing so?

 

 

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Community Guru
Preston H Member Since: Nov 24, 2014
30 of 33

Respectfully, I don't think "exploitation" is an appropriate word for use in business-making decisions.

 

Is somebody "exploiting" me as a resource if they pay my (relatively high) posted rate to design a database for them?

 

Yes, they are. They are exploiting my skills and my labor. But I don't have a problem with that. Feel free to "exploit" me.

 

When you use this word in a negative way, you are assuming that contractors are too ignorant to decide for themselves what rates to agree to and what work to do. If a person was able implement their personal ideals regarding "exploitation," they might prevent workers or contractors from being given opportunities that they really need and would enjoy.

 

The question for the client is not about "exploitation", but about return on investment.

 

For most types of projects, paying bargain-basement rates will not maximize ROI. Your project will usually cost less to complete at the quality level you desire if you pay higher rates than the lowest possible rates. In many cases, paying the highest hourly rate available will result in the lowest overall project cost.

 

If you know that certain rates are too low to meaningfully capture a contractor's attention, dedication and honest labor, than those low rates will be costly to you and your business. For that reason, those sub-par rates should be avoided.

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